Alton Towers Discussion Thread

[jamesdillaman]

I agree, I just thought disney would be different from Alton Towers, although I've never been there, which is why I asked what it was like. It isn't clear to me that the group PAID to rent out the park, though. The article doesn't say. My question was couldn't the couple arrange to ride the rides Friday and have the wedding Saturday, instead of the wedding Saturday and then riding Sunday? You'd think they could work it out. I think Alton Towers should offer to change their days of stay if they can, as 10,000 is a lot to spend at a park by anyone, and it's in their best interest to try and help them out. I was more or less just saying don't blame the Islamic group for this, as they have a right to believe what they want and I can understand they would feel uncomfortable at the theme park on a normal operating day.

-James Dillaman

[bgwfreak]

That will teach them to get married at an amusement park.

 

I feel bad for them. You do all this planning and then the park doesn't even have it booked correctly.

[robbalvey]

That will teach them to get married at an amusement park.

 

I feel bad for them. You do all this planning and then the park doesn't even have it booked correctly.

What are you talking about? From what I read there didn't seem to be ANY error in the park's booking or scheduling.

 

There is a wedding on SATURDAY...AT THE HOTEL.

 

A corporate buyout on SUNDAY...AT THE PARK.

 

And the wedding couple seems to be complaing.

 

HOW IS THIS THE PARK'S FAULT?????

 

--Robb "I find it interesting how the article doesn't give all the details." Alvey

[Corkscrewed]

Are you getting this other information from somewhere else? I re-read the article again and do not see where it says the fun day was booked on a Sunday. Sounds like both were booked on the same day. Which would suck.

 

Altho I guess you have a point there with the park vs hotel thing.

 

Still sucks tho. I'd think they should at least let them know or something. *shrug*

 

 

EDIT: nvm, you are getting more info elsewhere. lol

[CoasterFanatic]

And the wedding couple seems to be complaing.

 

I believe that the biggest problem is that it was conveyed to the couple that the park would be open to their guests the following day. When they booked the wedding that was probably a big plus.

 

Now they are receiving letters saying that they can enter the park, but only if they conform to Muslim standards. I ahve a feeling that the newlyweds would like to at least be able to ride together.

[bgwfreak]

That will teach them to get married at an amusement park.

 

I feel bad for them. You do all this planning and then the park doesn't even have it booked correctly.

What are you talking about? From what I read there didn't seem to be ANY error in the park's booking or scheduling.

 

There is a wedding on SATURDAY...AT THE HOTEL.

 

A corporate buyout on SUNDAY...AT THE PARK.

 

And the wedding couple seems to be complaing.

 

HOW IS THIS THE PARK'S FAULT?????

 

--Robb "I find it interesting how the article doesn't give all the details." Alvey

 

I didn't see that in the article, or missed it somehow. If that's the case then it's not the parks fault.

 

And if the park is bought out on Sunday then of course they would need to follow whatever rules are set by the group that rented it out.

 

It just makes me wonder, is the general public getting in too on Sunday? And if so, do they have to cover up?

[BeemerBoy]

At the time they made the booking the only date available was

Saturday, Sept 16. They were happy to accept it, believing that they

and the 60 guests for whom they had booked 20 rooms would be able to

enjoy the following day on the rides.

 

Since then, however, Alton Towers have hired out the complex for its

first Muslim fun day.

 

Believing that they and their own guests had the complex almost to

themselves, Islamic Leisure drew up a list of requirements.

 

These included the provision of prayer areas and bans on music,

alcohol and gambling. In the Muslim tradition, women would also need

to cover their bodies, as well as going on rides separately to their

menfolk.

 

The couple have since contacted Islamic Leisure, whose staff

confirmed that the wedding party would be asked to adhere to their

conditions.

 

Yaseen Patel, the organisation's director, confirmed: "The body will

have to be covered, (though) they do not have to wear the hijab."

 

An Alton Towers spokesman said staff would be discussing "the options

available" with the couple.

 

She claimed it was a condition of the Islamic Leisure booking that

wedding and hotel guests would be exempt from the Muslim dress code.

 

First of all, who had both parties "believing" that everything was kosher with each separate plan? Was it Alton Towers, or did each party take it among themselves to assume everything would go as planned according to their own bookings?

 

To me, it sounds as though it wasn't AT's fault for booking things the way they did, but they neglected to look deeper into the stipulations set forth by the muslims as it relates to the wedding party. It states that the muslims "believed" they had the park "almost" to themselves, and therefore drew up the stipulations. Well, if that's the case, then who were the people that would have comprised the "almost" factor? Was it the wedding party, if not a regular operating day full of "regular" park patrons? If so, then surely AT should have noticed the dilemma, and notified the wedding party immediately.

But this is where all the information is not present, so it's hard to identify who's responsible for the miscommunication.

 

It just seems as though the park understood the muslims' intentions, but couldn't put two and two together about the wedding guests visiting the park the very next day to celebrate. And if that's the case, then I fully understand the couple's gripe.

[CoasterFanatic]

^ They knew the muslims intentions. The muslim event is a complete park buy-out and not open to the public. The Muslims were kind enough to allow the couple to enter the park during the event, but they would have to conform to their standards.

 

It IS Alton's fault because they booked the park buyout after they allowed the wedding couple to believe they would have the park at their disposal on the following day.

 

A good example (and I'm sure this was covered in your Disney contract Robb) is let's say that you booked a wedding at Disney 2 years in advance and they led you to believe that the park would be open to your guests the next day. A couple months before the event, your guests get a letter in the mail explaining that the park will be closed to a private group of nudists that day. They say that you are welcome to attend their private event, but you are not allowed to wear any clothes.

 

What are your feelings? The circumstances aren't much different.

[methylene]

^ I say that we'll come back the day after provided they sterilize all ride seats.

 

Matt

[bgwfreak]

^ I say that we'll come back the day after provided they sterilize all ride seats.

 

Matt

 

I was thinking the same thing. You couldn't post any of your TR pics on TPR either. lol

[methylene]

^ I say that we'll come back the day after provided they sterilize all ride seats.

 

Matt

 

I was thinking the same thing. You couldn't post any of your TR pics on TPR either. lol

 

Sure you could. Photoshop has a blur utility.

 

 

Matt

[robbalvey]

It IS Alton's fault because they booked the park buyout after they allowed the wedding couple to believe they would have the park at their disposal on the following day.

 

A good example (and I'm sure this was covered in your Disney contract Robb) is let's say that you booked a wedding at Disney 2 years in advance and they led you to believe that the park would be open to your guests the next day. A couple months before the event, your guests get a letter in the mail explaining that the park will be closed to a private group of nudists that day. They say that you are welcome to attend their private event, but you are not allowed to wear any clothes.

 

What are your feelings? The circumstances aren't much different.

I don't think you can say it's Alton's fault without having read the contract for either parties to know what they both agreed to.

 

In our case, had we booked the Magic Kingdom Photo Shoot a year in advance (which we did) and then all of a sudden the castle was painted like a hot pink cake, we could either choose to continue with that photo shoot, or do something else.

 

Your nudist example is perfect. The couple didn't rent out the park, so yeah, if they wanted to conform to those rules in order to attend the park the next day they'd have no choice.

 

I *guarantee* you there was nothing in the wedding contract that stipulated going to the park the next day was part of the deal. And therefore, they really are at the park's mercy as to what they could and couldn't do that day or change their plans.

 

If the wedding was at the park, I could see the gripe. But the wedding is at a completely different location, and on a different day.

 

I can tell you for the UK trip I had a seperate contract for the hotel and for the park, and each had their own stipulations. We made sure we read both contracts VERY carefully to make sure there wouldn't be any confusion or any issues. It doesn't sound like the wedding party did the same.

 

It's not the park's fault.

 

--Robb

[chaos]

All I can say is, I'm glad I'm not in their situation. It's doesn't seem like it's anybody's fault. It's just a big misunderstanding.

[methos]

i would have gotten tossed because i would refuse to conform to some one Else's religion upon request, it is simply unreasonable for them (Alton or the muslim group) to expect me to fallow their religious rules and break from my freedoms. its a moral travesty, for any organisation to expect that of any one.

[CoasterFanatic]

^ It is, but they are not trying to get anyone to conform. Only if they want to participate in their private event.

 

Robb, I agree with you. I am sure that there was no language in the contract guaranteeing that the park would be open the next day for them, but I would be willing to guess that it was mentioned. I would also *gasp* assume that they had arrangements to buy grou tickets for the next day. How else would the park/hotel know to nofity their guests?

[SharkTums]

Again, I see this as just a bad timing issue. Money talks, and I'm sure that Alton Towers will make a lot more out of a Corporate Buy Out of the park, then a 50 person wedding.

 

Again, having had a theme park wedding we pretty much had to sign our life away.

 

We did an event at Epcot that we were told could be cancelled or we could be bumped to a crappy location up until 60 minutes before the event! We paid the $2500 and signed the contract knowing this. (luckily everything worked out)

 

I do believe that Alton can at least try and arrange something with the wedding party, as I know Disney did during the Pink Castle Fiasco! (Couples were allowed to choose alternate locations for their photo shoot, or got a discount).

 

Realistically $10K is NOT a lot for a wedding, so I don't think that should play a big part in this discussion either.

 

Alton towers may look like the bad guy here but they didn't do anything contractually wrong, and they did what was good for the park. As a Business school grad, I can't argue with that!

[DerekRx]

Why doesn't the couple just enjoy the indoor waterpark for the 8 minutes its opened that Sunday?

[Imhotep]

Who would be the ones enforcing that the couple cover up? And ensuring that they dont ride any rides together? Will male and female employees be required not to work together? And will THEY have to cover up?

 

Honestly, even though Muslim Fun Day may be real, this perticular story seems like one of those silly MySpace chain bulletins, or one of those stories that would show up as 'False' on Snopes.com.

 

But if it is real, I agree with whomever said it was just a big mixup. Its definately the groups right to buy out the park for them selves so they dont have to deal with those of other cultures and religions, but they can call the shots on allowing non-muslims in -which they are being very kind to do anyway... And the couples have a right to attend the park after their wedding day since they were told they could.

 

I found a funny quote from a Muslim Day article on thesun.co.uk

“We’re trying to get Muslims to go to this day because they wouldn’t normally go somewhere like Alton Towers. We’re trying to integrate Muslims into the wider community. People can come down and see the way we live. It will be a peaceful family environment.”

 

How do they expect people to see the way they live if people arent invited to the park anyways?

 

-Im "waiting for TPR to block out a date so I can get a free t-shirt!" hotep

[tinflowers]

Ahhhh....those wacky Muslims.

 

Honestly, its someones fault. But without being there...

 

How many days on average do parks rent out privately ya think?

[FRD714]

Wow that is pretty crazy...

[ECZenith]

OOps, hope the park takes care of the bill now...

[Louise]

No matter who's in the right and who's in the wrong (and although I do feel bad for the couple and their guests, I'm inclined to agree that this is Alton's fault, although if they really didn't contact the bride and groom to tell them about the situation, I think that's kinda out of order), I think at the end of the day, it's the wedding party whose weekend isn't going to go to plan. There are 60 wedding guests, and 20,000 Muslims, and in the current climate, there's no way the park is going to push the Muslims to allow the others into the park without following the guidelines of their religion. And, to be fair, why should they? I'm almost certain that this will come down to a choice for the wedding party: Either they don't go into the park, or they cover up, and ride separately according to gender.

 

It was mentioned that obviously the bride and groom would be upset that they wouldn't be able to ride together... Maybe the park shouldn't *have* to do this, but in the interest of good press (and I guess common courtesy), surely they could come to some arrangement to let the wedding party into the park and hour early, or for an hour after closing, or maybe even let them into one area of the park and ask the Muslim celebrators to stay away from that area for a while... Seems to me that the Fun Day organisers are being fairly understanding about the whole thing and would maybe be willing to come to some compromise. This would no doubt be costly (and annoying) to the park, and maybe the wedding party would have to pay money for something like this, but hey, if they didn't read the contract properly (which seems possible), it's their own fault. If that is the case, good luck to them if they do try and take legal action.

 

Somebody did raise an interesting point: I wonder what happens with staffing in such a situation? Presumably the ride ops and other workers cover up out of respect for the Muslims, but do they arrange them as all-male and all-female crews?

[Jon Sabo]

While the incident is unfortunate, the park (quite possibly) performed in the parameters their guidelines state. Could their have been some miscommunication? Perhaps. But, as several posts on this thread stated, you need to read the fine-print when signing a contract.

 

Corporate "buyouts" that use the park for the day certainly make more money than a group of 60+ guests (as noted by some of the posts). In some sense, we all must respect some religious aspect of who is using the park; in this case-the Muslim Fun Day. I would be curious how English Law represents scenarios regarding sex/gender, religion..etc. Do they have similar laws as in US?.

 

Quote: "At the time they made the booking the only date available was

Saturday, Sept 16. They were happy to accept it, believing that they

and the 60 guests for whom they had booked 20 rooms would be able to

enjoy the following day on the rides."<<

 

 

Apparently A-T acted in good faith in booking the Muslim group. It also appeared that the park respected their religion and requests/wishes in granting those requests. It is always a fine-line when it comes to religion (especially in the US) and there are laws to help "protect" them/groups. I don't really see an issue and the park granted the request(s) from the corporate/group booking & was working with the couple. Also, the last line states:

 

"An Alton Towers spokesman said staff would be discussing "the options

available" with the couple. "

 

 

 

 

I could imagine the CNN headlines if this scenario happened within the US (especially at a Disney or Six Flags park). I smell the fear of lawyers now and the media circus.

[robbalvey]

surely they could come to some arrangement to let the wedding party into the park and hour early, or for an hour after closing, or maybe even let them into one area of the park and ask the Muslim celebrators to stay away from that area for a while

Well, I can certainly tell you that option IS available...for a price! I also want to add that our TPR event (which was more expensive than this wedding, BTW) had a schedule change on us at last minute with nothing we could do about it. We did negotiate with the park additional perks (their FastPass option) to help compensate for that fact. These issues DO come up, even when you're spending a lot of money, and if you work with the parks, they will work with you. I'm sure I probably could have gotten the presses attention with "Alton Towers UNFAIR To International Visitors" but that's NOT how I chose to handle it.

 

Seriously though, as someone who has just recently signed both an event contract with the Alton Towers hotel as well as an event contract with the park, and don't forget I've have experience holding a wedding at a theme park, I really don't think the park is in the wrong here. I honestly thing the couple could have actually gotten what they wanted from the park, had they negotiated with them, but it really sounds to me like they were looking for the "press" to get something more out of it, probably because the park was NOT at fault, and this was the only other option to get their bitching heard. I'm willing to put money on it they are using this as an opportunity to exploit the park, the Muslim group, and get themselves a pretty sweet deal (that we'll probably never know about) from the park.

 

They are just as bad as the people who sue parks for slipping and falling. In fact, this is worse, because according to the parks contracts (if they are the same event contracts as the ones we signed) the park isn't doing anything wrong.

 

The two isolated events are on DIFFERENT DAYS. People seem to be forgetting that. Because the press wants you to believe the park "double booked" the two events, which is not an accurate statement. The press is going to try to make you see this story is the worst light possible, because that's what they do! Please, *PLEASE* try to be the "smarter person" and see that this is just another example of the press bad mouthing parks and people not taking personal responsibility and blaming another party for things they "assumed" or "beleived" and in reality probably didn't "read" or "research" until it was too late.

 

I don't feel anything for that couple using sensationalist press to their advantage.

 

--Robb "Please remember this is coming from someone who just recently signed event contracts with Alton Towers." Alvey

[map2]

I don't really see why the couple is saying that their wedding is ruined. The wedding itself is fine, it's just they assumed that they would be at the park the next day. But to me its not really double booking because the bookings were for two different things. The couple booked a wedding at a hotel, and a group of Muslims booked the park. Their separate things so Alton Towers did not overbook or double book. The wedding couple really should not complain so much, because its not like you were rejected from going to the park, you can still go, you just have to abide by the Muslims rules. Besides, the Muslims were willing to let the couple break one of the rules and not have to wear a hijab. Besides, its not like the couple expected for them to be the only people in the park.

 

Besides there was no guarentee that the park was going to be opened that Sunday in the first place. If the park closes because of a huge storm thats going to remain there for the whole day, are you going to complain to the media?