Zack44 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I'm glad that we're getting an actual roller coaster next year, but I wish that it didn't have to be at the expense of what is usually the quietest area of the entire park. Truth be told, I didn't visit Fort Independence much while it was around, but at least it offered some alternate entertainment aside from something to ride. I also love how they said "Summer 2016" like they're not even beating around the bush: it's gonna take a long, long time for the overall construction. Whatever, either way I can't wait! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaellynn4 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Truth be told, I didn't visit Fort Independence much while it was around, but at least it offered some alternate entertainment aside from something to ride. The Safari Discoveries arena covers this now, though. I literally on Sunday just watched the sea lion show that would've in the past taken place at the Aqua Stadium. Plus, it's shaded, has more comfortable seats, and allows you the opportunity to walk directly up and see them up close, something the Stadium couldn't do. I get that it's an original park structure, but it doesn't serve a purpose anymore. There's a reason why the left side of the Lakefront has been dead for years now. Out with the old, in with the new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radiohead8989 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I find all the complaints here kind of funny. If my local park had El Toro, I would never complain about anything they added. I'd walk right past the new ride, and ride El Toro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boldikus Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterfreak101 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Besides, it's not about contrary opinions. It's about opinions unsupported by rational arguments or facts. For example: - It's perfectly okay to prefer B&M on this site over Intiman. - It's perfectly okay to prefer floater airtime over ejector airtime on this site. - It's perfectly okay to prefer Universal over Disney on this site. - It's perfectly okay to prefer credit whoring instead of riding more selectively. BUT SUPPORT THESE OPINIONS WITH RATIONAL ARGUMENTS THAT ARE SUPPORTED BY FACTS. The entire concept of an opinion is that it's not based on fact, but on belief. The dictionary definition of the word is literally 'a personal view, attitude, or appraisal'. Saying that this ride has low capacity is NOT an opinion - it is a fact, based on the theoretical numbers; however, it has been proven to not be a problem at SFFT. That is also a fact, based on empirical evidence. Opinions are not a result of fact. They are a result of preference. Nobody needs to give you a rational argument for why they prefer B&M or Universal. That's not how opinion works. They do need to give you a rational argument for why they think the lines are going to suck, and you can tell them that they're wrong. Because, at least at SFFT, the lines don't suck - and that's a fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NunChaser6685 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I'm very excited about this addition. My home park is Great Escape, so I'll most likely be getting a season pass and planning a weekend trip to SFGAdv. I will happily wait however long is necessary to ride this coaster. It's a brand new coaster experience that I couldn't get otherwise without planning a much more expensive vacation to Texas. I'm not seeing a downside here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil009 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 This thread is enough for me to never come back to this forum again. The level of vitriol directed towards people with perfectly valid complaints against this new ride is just so completely beyond anything resembling respectable behavior that I'm honestly shocked. And I've been reading this forum for upwards of three years now (I know, not very long compared to many of you) and I didn't think it was still possible for me to be shocked. On the contrary, this thread / site is what helps restore my faith in some aspects of the coaster / theme park community. When I visit some of GAdv's other fansites and Facebook groups, it's usually full of these completely asinine, self-entitled, uninformed comments and arguments. I'm thrilled that there's at least ONE place out there that will call these people on their BS and aim for quality. I personally don't understand why webmasters of some of these other sites, many of whom I know don't agree with these comments, continue to let them poison their forums / news feeds. Besides, it's not about contrary opinions. It's about opinions unsupported by rational arguments or facts. For example: - It's perfectly okay to prefer B&M on this site over Intiman. - It's perfectly okay to prefer floater airtime over ejector airtime on this site. - It's perfectly okay to prefer Universal over Disney on this site. - It's perfectly okay to prefer credit whoring instead of riding more selectively. BUT SUPPORT THESE OPINIONS WITH RATIONAL ARGUMENTS THAT ARE SUPPORTED BY FACTS. Coasterbill displayed it earlier perfectly with his "capacity" example. You're right, the capacity example is perfect. Just as a comparison, Fahrenheit at Hershey is described all the time on this site as a relatively low capacity ride, compared to other major attractions, and this is supported by the fact that it always has long, slow-moving lines. So somebody points out that this ride, which has a stated capacity less than Farenheit, is a low capacity ride. Then out of nowhere somebody says "NOOO IT'S NOT A LOW CAPACITY RIDE WHAT KIND OF MORON ARE YOU RAAAARG". Now there's all kinds of rides out there with all kinds of capacities, so whether or not you want to describe this ride's capacity as low depends on what you're comparing it to, what you think the park needs, etc. In other words, it's subjective. But I'd say describing it as "low capacity" is perfectly reasonable. But no, because somebody shouted that it's not low capacity and some moderators agreed with him, then suddenly it's case-closed and now nobody is ever allowed to say it's low capacity again. Which is nonsense of course, but worse, it's bullying and oppressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterdude28 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Well I'm glad we finally know what GAdv is adding next year. This was an interesting summer of speculation. The ride looks fun and there have been tons of positive reviews out of SFFT. I'm confident the ride itself will be a huge hit for the park. Would it have been nice if they went with the 220 foot version? Of course. Would it have been nice if they placed the ride anywhere else, like Chillers spot or Freefalls spot and keep the lake real estate open for a future RMC or Premier? Of course. That being said though I am glad that the renderings show it in the Forts location and not the Grandstands. I think it works much better to the side of the lake than if it were right in front of it. Is the name and theming a little lackluster? Of course, but it is Six Flags so you shouldn't expect Dollywood level stuff in that department. This will be a great addition to the parks lineup as far as ride experience goes. I for one am looking forward to riding it as the only other 4d I've been on was X when it first opened, and I LOVED it. Hopefully I'll be able to represent TPR at Media Day again next year, hint hint Robb On a side note, if KK does get the new trains that would be very nice. I305 is super comfortable. KK with those restraints and without the shuffle it has would be a nice upgrade to an already awesome ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I find all the complaints here kind of funny. If my local park had El Toro, I would never complain about anything they added. I'd walk right past the new ride, and ride El Toro. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil009 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Oh yeah, I forgot about this whole "You guys have El Toro therefor you're never allowed to be disappointed in any addition ever again." Another perfect example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrygator Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 If you are a smart enthusiast you know the rules. Get to the park at open Go the the park on slow days Get on the rides that you are concerned about because of capacity, long lines or breakdowns early in the day Therefore, I will continue to get to SFGAdv park at opening, on slower days and ride Total Mayhem first. I actually just bought my Gold pass during the Flash Sale (first time I recall that parking at other SF parks is being included without an upcharge), I even added the Gold Dining Pass for the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil009 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) BUT SUPPORT THESE OPINIONS WITH RATIONAL ARGUMENTS THAT ARE SUPPORTED BY FACTS. The entire concept of an opinion is that it's not based on fact, but on belief. The dictionary definition of the word is literally 'a personal view, attitude, or appraisal'. Saying that this ride has low capacity is NOT an opinion - it is a fact, based on the theoretical numbers; however, it has been proven to not be a problem at SFFT. That is also a fact, based on empirical evidence. Opinions are not a result of fact. They are a result of preference. Nobody needs to give you a rational argument for why they prefer B&M or Universal. That's not how opinion works. They do need to give you a rational argument for why they think the lines are going to suck, and you can tell them that they're wrong. Because, at least at SFFT, the lines don't suck - and that's a fact. I'm a little stunned that you have the dictionary definition of "opinion" staring at you in the face and yet you still get it wrong. "Low capacity" falls under "appraisal". The actual capacity, the number itself, is the fact. Stating whether it's low or high is the appraisal, i.e., the opinion. There is no governing body stating what qualifies a ride's capacity as low or high. It's low compared to some rides, high compared to others. And whether or not the lines at SFFT suck is also an appraisal. Maybe, if you don't think the ride is worth waiting an hour (or however long) for, then the wait sucks. Whereas someone who loves the ride thinks its perfectly reasonable. The blurring of "opinion" and "fact" is half the problem around here. Edited September 3, 2015 by neil009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJeXeL Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 The blurring of "opinion" and "fact" is half the problem around here. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrygator Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Besides, it's not about contrary opinions. It's about opinions unsupported by rational arguments or facts. For example: - It's perfectly okay to prefer credit whoring instead of riding more selectively. NO, THIS IS NEVER OK. IT IS THE SIGN OF SEVERE PROBLEMS. But at least, we are tolerated here most of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cfc Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 If you are a smart enthusiast you know the rules. Get to the park at open Go the the park on slow days Get on the rides that you are concerned about because of capacity, long lines or breakdowns early in the day Therefore, I will continue to get to SFGAdv park at opening, on slower days and ride Total Mayhem first. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
805Andrew Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Six Flags Great Adventure, sometimes nicknamed "El Toro Park", has El Freakin' Toro, as well as Nitro, Kingda Ka, and Zumanjaro Drop of Doom. If El Toro Park never added another ride again, it would still be a great park and worth visiting because it has these rides. Getting this new 4D Free Fly is just a bonus, so I don't see what all the complaining is about except for maybe the name and logo of the ride (which I agree is dumb) or color of the ride (I'm okay with it). Total Mayhem looks like a great addition to a great park with an already great lineup of rides. I'll gladly trade Green Lantern First Flight for Total Mayhem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terdferg Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I do take back the negative statements I made about aesthetics, looks pretty nice. Should we start making bets on if the grass in the video actually shows up on the real thing? Just kidding... I am still way more excited about the new launched el loco that the tiny boardwalk park in ocean city is adding, but I accept this addition. If this kicks off a trend of GADV rehabbing areas of the park, I am all for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 So why didn't they go with the larger model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImNotOneOfYou Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 So why didn't they go with the larger model? Because they didn't feel that they needed to. The smaller model is probably an amazing ride. I would like to point out that SFGAdv marketed Nitro as proving size matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrygator Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I am still way more excited about the new launched el loco that the tiny boardwalk park in ocean city is adding. But it will be such low capacity. I'm excited for both and as some rational people have stated, it is great that those of us living in the area have so many choices. Maybe American Dream will finally open in 2017 as another option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Maybe American Dream will finally open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Is this what the Kings Dominion thread will be like when they announce a new coaster? "It's a forceless B&M". Yup, pretty much. "1. After months of rumors and speculation, the ride is announced. The ride is immediately hit with negative views because it didn't live up to the hype coasterboy2194210 had set when he heard from his friend's uncle that it was going to be a 900 foot prototype." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshbridgers2 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Somewhat off topic but Six Flags did a very good job playing us. No one definately knew what we were getting until last night. They also threw some people away by naming a haunt for ff total mayhem which had me thinking it was not the real name of the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFOG1991 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 People who have anything negative about something on this forum seem to get bashed, but I'm going to put in my bit anyways... I pretty much hate this addition. 1. Low capacity (for a park this size, and with the lines they get, they really need a high capacity new coaster). 2. Personal opinion but the name is silly. 3. Why would they open up that beautiful lake front just to plop a coaster like this in front of it. I feel like there are so many better ways to use that space. I love Great Adventure, but I feel like they make so many awkward, disjointed, random plans/additions that don't seem to really fit with any long term goal. With that being said it will still be a great ride in its own right, and I'm sure the GP will love it in its debut year. Those wanting a new coaster should still be happy that they are getting a new, thrilling, and fairly unique coaster (considering there is just one other like it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deguy123 Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 I knew once I came on here, people would be bashing the ride and that it's just a clone. I'll take it over what the other parks got for 2016! I don't know when I'll get to Texas, so now I have one about an hour away. I mean any addition to a park is a plus in my opinion, but a coaster that's only the second to be built is great! Great Adventure has greatly improved since the early 2000s (Mainly due to that 1999 Wars on Lines, which was a horrible decision). Also who would complain about a park that has El Toro I went in July this year on a weekend and the lines for all rides weren't bad at all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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