Six Flags Darien Lake (SFDL) Discussion Thread

[Philrad71]

I would imagine that Herschend is going to try their hardest to settle this out of court as quietly & fairly as possible, but with (we show 30 commercials during one Sabres game) Cellino & Barnes on their heels you can expect they will probably pay big...despite the fact that the rider was also negligent to a lesser degree.

[Shavethewhales]

Does anyone have confirmation that the Thunderbolt has started arriving onsite? Any photos?

[jennb30]

I'm sorry that this poor guy died, especially after all he went through to heal after a tragic event like the one he suffered in Iraq. I know that the grieving process has many stages and it sounds to me like his family is in the anger stage. Unfortunately our society has turned into a bunch of blame-seekers due to lawyers (a.k.a. vultures) like Celino and Barnes. I for one would not be the least bit surprised to find out that they approached this family in the aftermath and offered to represent them after the story broke. The worst part is that this horrible court battle will do nothing for the family but drag out the grieving process. If they were, in fact, the ones who sought out legal action I pray for them that this matter gets settled quickly because they're only hurting themselves further. Even if they win, they still lose because a dear loved one is gone and no amount of litigation or money can bring him back. The park operators had already immediately started implementing new safety and training procedures after his death, and that was without any threat of a lawsuit immediately hanging over their heads, so what good can possibly come from suing? Also, let's not forget that there is a little thing called "personal responsibility". It's that little voice we all have in our heads that says (however quietly at times), "Hmm, maybe this isn't a good idea". Obviously Sgt. Hackemer was not paying attention in the moment before he decided to board the ride. It just makes me wonder if, had this happened 50 years ago, would the family have had the inclination to sue? Or would they perhaps have chalked it up to just being the terrible accident it was?

[BeemerBoy]

...despite the fact that the rider was also negligent to a lesser degree.

I'm actually in the camp that believes the rider wasn't necessarily "negligent," but perhaps just overambitious....and a bit stupid to think it was a good idea to ride. When everything is broken down into simplest terms, the reason for this accident falls 100% on the ride ops....who have absolutely no excuse, and can NEVER afford to be negligent.

 

Personally, I think these ops deserve to be held personally responsible for their actions, and sued accordingly. I mean, how is what they did (or failed to do, as it may be) any different from that Scad tower debacle? How is it any different from a train operator derailing a train full of kids because it was traveling too fast?

 

You know what? It's time for ALL ride ops to learn what's at stake every time they dispatch a car or train......lives. Aside from mechanical failure of the ride itself, there is NO excuse to not be on your game at ALL times. And that includes....GASP...making logical, and sometimes difficult decisions regarding rider safety. These aren't toys, kids. They aren't NoLimit creations.

 

I don't care if Lt. Dan rolled up and demanded a ride. As a trained ride operator, you are essentially responsible for everyone's well being while in the presence of that piece of machinery. Sure, it sucks to be looked at as the dbag who turned away a decorated war veteran. Sure it would suck to live with the pain and guilt of essentially letting a man die due to your neglect. But you know what? That's what you signed up for. Don't be stupid, and terrible things won't happen.

 

Sometimes the best way to spur on reform is to hit a company where it hurts...their wallet. I say sue Herschend and it's employees to the fullest if it's determined they were negligent and responsible.

 

Does anyone else hear that? That's the sound of the US never getting a Mega-Lite or another Intamin woodie.

You know, I still hold out hope. I mean, Dare Devil Dive was a small victory in the fight for common sense and realism. And to me, the fact that bungee jumps and sky coasters still exist prove that anything is possible. I still shudder to think about what's actually involved with prepping a rider for a sky coaster compared to any other ride in the park, and who I'm actually trusting to do so. If every employee was in the mold of Skycoastin Steve, I'd be okay.....but we all know that's not the case.

[ParkTrips]

I'm actually in the camp that believes the rider wasn't necessarily "negligent," but perhaps just overambitious....and a bit stupid to think it was a good idea to ride. When everything is broken down into simplest terms, the reason for this accident falls 100% on the ride ops....who have absolutely no excuse, and can NEVER afford to be negligent.

Legally, I think a defense lawyer could quite easily place some of the blame on the rider himself

 

Sadly, in this lawsuit happy nation of ours, there's one motive behind pretty much every job on earth - and that's M-A-K-I-N-G M-O-N-E-Y.

fixed.

 

Oh goodie. Another needless lawsuit... Gee, I can smell the OTSRs now coming to RoS.

 

Nothing (And I do mean -nothing-) pisses me off more than meaningless lawsuits, especially by ambulance chasing lawyers. Some worm crawled into the family's residence, and rotted away whatever common sense was left- and let the greed take over.

at the very least, I'd sue to recover funeral costs if someone was horribly negligent as in this case. If I were his widow, I'd have to consider replacing his lost income stream somehow too.

[BeemerBoy]

I'm actually in the camp that believes the rider wasn't necessarily "negligent," but perhaps just overambitious....and a bit stupid to think it was a good idea to ride. When everything is broken down into simplest terms, the reason for this accident falls 100% on the ride ops....who have absolutely no excuse, and can NEVER afford to be negligent.

Legally, I think a defense lawyer could quite easily place some of the blame on the rider himself.

Right, a good defense attorney will definitely try to sell ice to an eskimo. But still, the ops are the last line of defense in this situation. He doesn't ride if they don't say so. He can certainly be blamed for wanting to ride, thinking he could ride, and possibly protesting being turned away, but that still doesn't make him accountable for his own death.

 

If there's a life guard at a shallow pool with "NO DIVING" posted every two feet, and some idiot walks up and decides to take the plunge anyway, there's not really much that lifeguard can do. Even if the ride was named "Ride of Able-bodied People Only: This Does NOT Mean You, Mr. Iraqi War Verteran With His Legs Blown Off," with signs posted every two feet and balloons with ride rules handed out to everyone in line, the ride ops still have the final say who rides and who doesn't.

 

If I'm representing the family, that's the point I'd drive home. I'm just so tired of a lack of reason and accountability on anyone's part these days. I'll call out these ops everyday, and twice on Sunday.

[ParkTrips]

I'm just so tired of a lack of reason and accountability on anyone's part these days.

By this statement (which I very much so agree with), you should be saying the same thing with regard to the victim, right? I mean surely he is familiar with the fact that his amputated legs have changed the function of his body, shouldn't he have some sort of duty to ensure that he is ok to ride? Maybe read a warning sign regarding bodily restrictions, check with a ride op, or perhaps just play it safe and not bother? Otherwise, the way I see it, you are just transferring all liability to the ride ops, and permitting a lack of accountability on the part of the victim, right?

[Shavethewhales]

I drove past Celebration City yesterday and the Thunderbolt was still there and completely in-tact, so it appears the rumors of pieces of it showing up at DL are false. However, maybe it will in the long-run, HFEC is really emptying out the park lately, and they'll want to do something with it if it doesn't sell.

[BeemerBoy]

^^ In this situation, I am definitely putting all liability on the ops. I'm basically saying, this guy could go up there knowing full well that it wasn't a good idea to ride. He could bitch, whine, pitch a fit, whatever, but the fact of the matter remains that someone....ANYONE certified to do so should have stood up and denied him a ride.

 

I just have serious difficulty in thinking that out of all those ride ops on duty that day, that not a single one of them had the balls to stand up in this situation and be the voice of reason. They may all have been minimum wage summer job kids, but you gotta figure at least one of them had an ounce of their brain telling them, "Hey, this just isn't a good idea."

 

I mean, if you're trained on the equipment, you should pretty much know the limitations and parameters for safe ridership. That's why I'm saying SOMEONE could...and SHOULD have easily stepped in and said NO. And if the guy continued to argue or whatever, then you simply direct him to the supervisor, and so on down the chain of command if needed.

 

Believe me, he's certainly guilty for thinking, wanting, or demanding a ride. However, he didn't ultimately push the button that released the train. That was someone else's responsibility. Someone who should have known better. Someone who should have been doing their JOB. Someone who was ultimately responsible for this man's death.

 

Your honor, the prosecution rests.

 

EDIT: Another way to think of it is this. When you think of the typical ride warning sign, there's several obvious things that come to mind. You shouldn't ride if: You have a bad back, you're pregnant, etc. etc. Well, just those first two alone aren't exactly obvious to every ride op, and are probably defied by the general public all the time either knowingly or not(in the case of pregnancies, I'm not talking about obvious "baby bumps" well into the nine months).

 

If riding produces any harm in either of those situations, who's gonna take blame? Probably the ride ops for letting them ride, right? Is it their fault? Of course not. They can't determine who's got a bad back, or might knowingly or unknowingly be pregnant in some situations. But we're talking about a dude missing two legs. Whether he thinks it's okay or not, it's ultimately the ride ops responsibility to enforce the posted rules.

 

Okay, now I rest.

[Philrad71]

^ I agree and by my statement, I meant that the ride op's were definitely the one's at major fault as they are responsible for all rider's safety. But secondly, the rider should have also had enough common sense to know there might be just a wee bit of a problem riding a lap bar-only coaster with no legs. There is definitely going to be some defense on behalf of Herschend, but the family (and Cellino & Barnes) know they have the upper hand with this case because letting him ride was just wrong...no question about it.

 

There have been many times I've been at a park where the ride op's seem to not give a crap if you have your lap bar pulled down, let alone have your seat belt buckled. They're talking to the other ride op's while they're checking restraints and to me, that just isn't in the best interest of the guest's safety. It's one thing to have fun, but another if you're negligent of rider safety.

 

If I see a ride op walk by and just tap my bar while they are talking to another ride op, I always check to make sure I can't lift the bar and that my seat belt is clicked and I am fully secure. Just seems like common sense to me, but for others maybe thinking on behalf of their own safety is just too difficult an idea to grasp?

[ginzo]

If I see a ride op walk by and just tap my bar while they are talking to another ride op, I always check to make sure I can't lift the bar and that my seat belt is clicked and I am fully secure. Just seems like common sense to me, but for others maybe thinking on behalf of their own safety is just too difficult an idea to grasp?

 

I have noticed that tendency in many ride ops: They staple the hell out of you, but they never bother to pull up on the bar to make sure that it's secure.

[deathbydinn]

I drove past Celebration City yesterday and the Thunderbolt was still there and completely in-tact, so it appears the rumors of pieces of it showing up at DL are false. However, maybe it will in the long-run, HFEC is really emptying out the park lately, and they'll want to do something with it if it doesn't sell.

 

Sure you saw everything?

 

In Development - (8/9/11) A reader sent in a quick picture showing off the pieces of Thunderbolt piled up near Mind Eraser

 

 

http://www.screamscape.com/html/darien_lake.htm

 

EDIT: Woops See below.

Edited August 9, 2011 by deathbydinn

[Mantaeus]

Not convinced those are pieces of the ride. If you go to Bing maps birds eye view, you can see the same parts near Mind Eraser. Pretty sure those have been there for years, whatever they are.

 

EDIT: Parts are to the right of the ride.

 

EDIT the 2nd: Pretty sure those are off-season storage for Mind Eraser trains.

[kidcoaster 2]

That looks to be something to deal with Mind Eraser, Maybe what they put the train on during the off-season.

[nhman93]

Yep as has been pointed out a week or so on the DL fourms those are simply the storage tracks for Mind Eraser both rides are essentially the same colors so I understand the confusion.

[Intamin10]

there for the Mind Eraser‏ trains to storage in off-season .

[BeemerBoy]

Hey, maybe those are storage tracks?

[Mr. Starr]

Hey, maybe those are storage tracks?

 

They definitely looks like Thunderbolt supports to me...

 

[Intamin10]

there not there storage tracks .For the Mind Eraser frame and wheel assembly to go on. As seen in the pic from another park.

 

Pic from http://www.montanarusa.com

[DougMJr]

Ride of Steel is closed again, according to This article.

 

DARIEN — Some park-goers on the Ride of Steel at Darien Lake Theme Park & Resort on Thursday had some tense moments after a mechanical failure.

 

Darien Lake officials said in a statement that a chain broke about 6:10 p.m. The train, carrying 32 passengers, automatically stopped on the lift about halfway up the track.

 

The passengers had to walk down the side of the track. All were safely evacuated, officials said, and were on the ground within 30 minutes of the breakdown.

 

“All redundant safety systems functioned precisely as planned including the immediate train stop,” Chris Thorpe, general manager of the park, said in the statement. “Ride of Steel will be closed until further notice.”

 

On July 8, Army Sgt. James Hackemer, 29, a double amputee, was killed when he fell from the same coaster.

 

Also, according to channel 2. The ride will remain closed until The repair is made and park and state inspections of the ride are completed...

 

Not a good season for RoS.

[Audio111]

Wow, can't believe the chain broke. Hope they have a spare. Definitely a bad year for the ride.

[Rollercoaster Rider]

I Was about to say What's Going on With that Coaster?

[Geauga Dog]

Of all the RoS' out there Darien's seems like it's jinxed. Didn't the chain break just a few year's ago?

[Shavethewhales]

With all the bad publicity the park has gotten this year, will Herschend get booted at the end of the year? I mean, it honestly sounds like most of their problems are coming from bad management, which is something I never expected out of the company. Even aside from the ROS issues, from what I've heard it sounds like their staff needs a lot of work, and the park in general could be in a lot better shape. I don't know how much of this is the fault of CNL versus HFEC, but something needs to change on this property. Hopefully they can get it sorted out for next year.

[DougMJr]

I highly doubt those supports by mind eraser are from thunderbolt, because they have been there for years... I'm pretty sure it's just storage track for mind eraser, however I have never been to Darien lake during the off season.

 

^I hope Darien Lake doesn't drop HFE. While they didn't have a good season, there was improvement this year. Especially season ticket processing. I think that HFE could do so much if given the time.

Edited August 13, 2011 by DougMJr