Six Flags Great Adventure 4/11

[robbalvey]

*ahem* unacceptable. Once amusement parks publishes their schedule on their website, it's final. They must keep their words. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. Just unacceptable. I got screwed just like this once and it's... *ahem* Six Flags Darien Lake. SIX FLAGS.

Sorry, dude, you can't blame Darien Lake for running out of cheese...

 

[tntornadox]

Restaurants and movie theaters' overhead are like a piece of cheese compared to a park the size of SFGAdv... that's where that argument doesn't hold water.

[robbalvey]

I'm in the group who doesn't believe parks should close early due to weather. All businesses have good days and bad. Some days you'll make lots of money and other days you'll lose money--that's how businesses work. Just as someone else said, if a restaurant doesn't get "x" number of people for a meal, do they close? No. If a movie theather doesn't get "x" number of people for a movie, do they not show it? No. We've been the only 2 people in a theatre at times.

Right, but there is something you're not taking into consideration here (besides the cheese), it's the volume of employees at a restaurant and a movie theater versus a theme park.

 

I've actually worked at all three - restaurants, movie theaters and theme parks!

 

And I can tell you first hand experience that when a movie theater or restaurant is "slow" you actually can still make some money because the per capita spending doesn't need to be as high as it does at a theme park for the location to break even.

 

When I worked at the movie theater on a slow night there might be only 10 of us working - couple ticket people, concessions, greeters, projectionists, etc.

 

At the restaurants I've worked at we could get away with a skeleton staff of about 15ish on a slow night.

 

To open a theme park and have a majority of your attractions, shops, and restaurants open, you're talking HUNDREDS of people. I'd be surprised of a "skeleton staff" at SFGadv is any less than 300 to 500 people.

 

I don't think comparing the operational costs of a restaurant/movie theater to a theme park is a very good comparison at all.

 

That's just my two cents based on my personal experience working at all three.

 

--Robb

[Team Thriller]

^^^^

I agree. If I flew from Germany to go to a park and find out they close it just because not enough people are there, I would be very mad. That could cost a person more money than the park would loose.

 

--James

[ginzo]

Maybe Six Flags should try the Hersheypark approach of "promise less, charge less" for some of their parks earlier on in the season. That way they could just open some things and not be under as much pressure to get everything running by opening day. Though with a day with 100 guests even that approach is a huge money pit.

 

I agree. If I flew from Germany to go to a park and find out they close it just because not enough people are there, I would be very mad. That could cost a person more money than the park would loose.

 

Then pay very close attention and learn from someone else's mistake here. As a traveler it's your responsibility to research the place that you're going to. And when you travel in "shoulder season" one thing that is commonly known is that attractions can be more iffy with being open.

[SharkTums]

That could cost a person more money than the park would loose.

 

Sorry to take this out on you, but WTF is with this!?!>!>

 

Did schools stop teaching the difference between Lose and Loose!??! They are VERY different words, and they don't seem that hard to distinguish!!

 

I've seen this all over the board lately and I just make fun of it, but I'm going to start banning people at this point!

[robbalvey]

I agree. If I flew from Germany to go to a park and find out they close it just because not enough people are there, I would be very mad. That could cost a person more money than the park would loose.

But you have to remember the type of park it is. If you're talking a Disney or Universal park which have global appeal, there is no way they are going to close. If you're talking about a Six Flags or Cedar Fair park, where the majority of patrons are made up of locals or season pass holders, you have to consider the demographic.

 

Again, don't get me wrong, I DO NOT AGREE WITH THE PARKS CLOSING, but I'm trying to help everyone see both sides of the coin instead of just lashing out at the parks closing. Because as much as it does suck, there IS a business decision that has to be made.

 

Here's an example, if we put on a TPR trip that we have budgeted for 45 to 50 people and we only get 15 to sign up, what do we do? We have to cancel that trip because it wil wind up costing us money out of our pocket to put that trip on.

 

So based on what people have said, should we still be putting on that trip because we're a "business" and that's how "businesses work?" Even though it would be money out of our pocket and the trip would be a loss for us? Of course we cancel it! And of course the park closes!

 

I thought the way businesses worked was to "make money" so why would you want to do something that would cause you undoubtedly to lose money? That's not how a business works.

 

The great thing about a restaurant business is that you can scale down your staff based on how busy you are.

 

I also don't believe the park closed and they all just said "PARK'S CLOSING!!! F**K ALL THOSE PEOPLE! WE'RE GOING HOME EARLY! YAY!!! PARTY AT MY PLACE TONIGHT!"

 

I believe they actually had to put some thought into it and figure out the balance between money spent to keep the park open and what the negative affect would be by closing.

 

And if the greatest negative affect is a bunch of people whining and complaining on an internet website...all of which are going to return to the park again (probably next weekend) then I say they made the right decision.

 

Now, none of this would even be an issue if Johnny Rockets would have just had cheese for their hamburgers.

 

--Robb

[Speeddeamon128]

I feel bad for you since you had a 3 hour rode trip. I went after work yesterday for a quick 3 hour stay & got 21 runs. Everything but the mine train work but I only wanted to ride El Toro, Nitro, Kingda Ka, & Skull Mountain. I guess today was bad luck for you guys. Are you going to wait for Bizarro to open before you head back?

[netdvn]

*ahem* unacceptable. Once amusement parks publishes their schedule on their website, it's final. They must keep their words. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. Just unacceptable. I got screwed just like this once and it's... *ahem* Six Flags Darien Lake. SIX FLAGS.

 

Ummm.... NO!!!!!

 

The park's schedule is always subjected to change whether its because of the weather, crowd levels, etc. If there's only 20 people in the park at the time, the park will lose money. If there's a weather condition like fire, storm, etc, the park should have the liberty of closing its gates. Why? Because equipment could break, people could get hurt, and lawsuits could be filed.

 

PS: I love Cheese.

[coastakid]

^^ Most probably, since I head off to Florida monday for my spring break and I'm busy during the weekends until after memorial day.

 

 

Hahaha, this topic is quite successful, in quite an odd manner.

 

 

-Jon

[Jew]

I bet any of the guests inconvienced by this could have gone to guest relations, where the staff was probably more than happy to give them some cheese to go with their comp ticket/refund/whatever other form of recovery they had to solve the problem.

 

...And that would be just as good as keeping the park open in the guests eyes.

[Josh Davidson]

[coastakid]

I LOVE YOU JOSH.

 

 

-Jon

[OldJJman]

For whoever was asking:

 

Yes. I have been asked to leave a park because it was dead. At least 3 times.

 

It was Knott's.

 

Twice, the park closed at noon. Third time, 1:30pm.

 

The first 2 involved heavy overnight rains, with nothing more than a mist once the park opened. But "the rain" prevented them from operating and/or "testing" ANY rides. (Even Log Jammer, go figure.)

 

The third time, the rain was completely gone before the park opened. I was there at opening. So were 3 school buses of kids. Most rides opened by 10:30. At 11:45, a general announcement was made that the park was closing at noon, "due to weather". By then it was sunny, and only sparsely cloudy. They ended up staying open till 1:30 to get the people out.

 

I asked someone who I knew that worked there what the real story was -

 

Only 112 people had come through the front gate by 11:30.

 

They were just saving money. (i.e. being cheap)

 

As an annual pass holder, it didn't bother me too much.

 

Then again, why didn't they just keep the park open and operate on a skeleton crew? That would have been much easier to understand.

 

 

But, forgetting the CHEESE?!?!?!?! Unforgivable!!

[CoasterGuy06]

Having worked at a park for 5+ years now I can tell you that while this does not happen often, it is a normal occurrence. Now for us it was very rare to close on a summer day, but when we were only open on weekends it was much more common. In fact, my very first weekend we closed two hours early on Saturday and closed after only 2 hours of operation on Sunday. But the decision to close was always the last option. If we could stay open with a bare bones crew (which would include rotating smaller rides, closing the smaller food stands, games, and stores) we would, but if the majority of people were season pass holders we might close. (Of course this park did offer rain checks, while Six Flags does not).

[Electerik]

Then pay very close attention and learn from someone else's mistake here. As a traveler it's your responsibility to research the place that you're going to. And when you travel in "shoulder season" one thing that is commonly known is that attractions can be more iffy with being open.

 

I think that's putting an awful lot of responsibility on the consumer while giving the business a free pass.

 

If I sell you an empty bag that I promised was filled with yummy cheese, is it totally on you because you didn't research enough to know that I was out of cheese?

 

If the park is surprised by particularly bad weather or other circumstances, I would understand closing early. But unless it's really an exceptional occurence, they should at least make an effort to ensure that the guests they do have leave feeling good about their day.

 

I was working at IOA the wednesday after 9/11. There was a tropical storm coming in, it rained all day, and the employees outnumbered the guests in the park over 3-to-1. So instead of closing at 7:00pm, we closed at 3:00pm. They announced it starting at noon, and no one complained. Why would they? They got on every ride they wanted to multiple times without waiting, and they understood the decision.

 

/Then again, Universal makes money, while Six Flags doesn't.

//If only there was some explanation for why that is.

[Angry_Gumball]

I remember my trip to (at the time) SFMW during spring break I think 2001. V2 was just beginning to go vertical. We knew the forecast showed rain. We called up to SF that morning to find out if they were open and how the weather was so we risked the 45 minute drive (much closer than 3 hours btw) and arrived. It was a steady rain when we got there and the rides were all running. We were expecting that a closure is possible. At about 2:00, the rain tapered off...and to our surprise, the park was closing. I guess most people were already gone and couldn't bear with the quite heavy rains that dumped onto the park. Funny thing was that all the rides (that I could see) were all running...and we marathoned Roar in the heavy rain while the smart ones took cover in the nearby arcade.

 

We were pass holders so there was no loss for us, we just made another visit later that week when it was sunny.

[nathanhillinbl]

Okay, look at it from a business point of view.

 

My home SF, Great Escape (which I work at) , does this every once in a while when it rains and attendance is expected to be very low. Say we have 500 people scheduled to be working all day. (Don't jump on me about that figure, its just an estimate) Also say that everyone's working a 8 hour shift and getting minimum wage. That's over $25,000 that they saved in labor costs compared to the minimal admission costs that they might've been able to scrounge up for the day.

 

Personally, I drive 30 miles to go to work (and make just a bit more than state minimum wage), and would rather close down on a rainy day, and have to go home and not work than put the company more in debt, and thus me possibly closer to not having a job any day of the week.

[ginzo]

I think that's putting an awful lot of responsibility on the consumer while giving the business a free pass.

 

If I sell you an empty bag that I promised was filled with yummy cheese, is it totally on you because you didn't research enough to know that I was out of cheese?

 

I think I'm just a cynical bastard by nature and I pretty much expect these kinds of antics. I wouldn't have even asked for a parking refund. I would have charged it back with the credit card company. I try to charge everything I possibly can to give me this leverage.

 

If the park is surprised by particularly bad weather or other circumstances, I would understand closing early. But unless it's really an exceptional occurence, they should at least make an effort to ensure that the guests they do have leave feeling good about their day.

 

I do agree that they handled this situation very poorly, but they did make the obvious call overall. 100 guests barely justifies one coaster being open, much less 13.

 

/Then again, Universal makes money, while Six Flags doesn't.

//If only there was some explanation for why that is.

 

No rich parent company and a crippling mountain of debt.

[robbalvey]

Then pay very close attention and learn from someone else's mistake here. As a traveler it's your responsibility to research the place that you're going to. And when you travel in "shoulder season" one thing that is commonly known is that attractions can be more iffy with being open.

 

I think that's putting an awful lot of responsibility on the consumer while giving the business a free pass.

I don't think he means it quite like that, but I do get what he's saying.

 

For example...

 

We always plan our Asia trips in the fall (Sept/Oct) when that is actually one of the worst "weather" times to go...BUT the flip side is it's one of the best park times to go!

 

While most parks won't close unless it's a typhoon, rides will ABSOLUTELY close in the rain. (and we have had parks close on us to which we had time in our plan to re-schedule during our trip)

 

We as travelers make sure we do all of our research and plan accordingly to try and allow extra time if we do get rained out somewhere.

 

Out of now 4 trips to Japan and having encountered 2 typhoons during our visits, we have only every gotten totally rained out of about a half dozen coasters across ALL those trips! (and consider with multiple visits to some parks, we're probably talking in the neighborhood of 250 - 300 coasters.)

 

That's pretty good going, and all because of good planning. I think that is what Ginzo is talking about.

 

If you're going to fly across the planet for a roller coaster, allow some wiggle room in your schedule in case of a disappointment.

 

--Robb "I think that's all Ginzo was trying to say." Alvey

[Electerik]

Here's an example, if we put on a TPR trip that we have budgeted for 45 to 50 people and we only get 15 to sign up, what do we do? We have to cancel that trip because it wil wind up costing us money out of our pocket to put that trip on.

 

So based on what people have said, should we still be putting on that trip because we're a "business" and that's how "businesses work?" Even though it would be money out of our pocket and the trip would be a loss for us? Of course we cancel it! And of course the park closes!

 

Well, yeah...but I'm guessing that you'd let everyone know before they were standing in line for the bus.

 

Be honest, if something weird happened and you were suddenly unable to provide the TPR experience you wanted to--but people were already committed monetarily (plane tickets) and on their way--you'd try to do something, wouldn't you?

 

I can think of several cute, cheap things Six Flags could have done for those few guests that would have been all kinds of Photo Trip Report worthy.

[Guest]

Has anyone ever heard of a park closing due to poor turnout? I think it's beyond ridiculous.

Ive seen it several times. Not at destination parks obviously, but large seasonal parks yes.

 

With the financial situation SF is in right now theyre not going to stay open if theyre going to loose huge amounts of money by operating at this time of year, so when it rains it doesnt surprise me at all they closed the park.

[ginzo]

^^^Yeah, that's a much better explanation than what I gave. Basically, if you're spending big bucks on an international flight, it's up to you to be smart about it. Like we're doing some hiking in Switzerland in early June before the Scandi trip. This is definitely non-peak season for hiking in the Alps, which means cheaper hotel rooms and all. But the trade off is that many of the trails will impassable because the snow hasn't fully melted yet.

[robbalvey]

Here's an example, if we put on a TPR trip that we have budgeted for 45 to 50 people and we only get 15 to sign up, what do we do? We have to cancel that trip because it wil wind up costing us money out of our pocket to put that trip on.

 

So based on what people have said, should we still be putting on that trip because we're a "business" and that's how "businesses work?" Even though it would be money out of our pocket and the trip would be a loss for us? Of course we cancel it! And of course the park closes!

 

Well, yeah...but I'm guessing that you'd let everyone know before they were standing in line for the bus.

 

Be honest, if something weird happened and you were suddenly unable to provide the TPR experience you wanted to--but people were already committed monetarily (plane tickets) and on their way--you'd try to do something, wouldn't you?

We would exhaust all options, but this is why we reccomend people to get travel insurance just in case something happened and we did have the cancel a trip. Granted, it's never happened, and I think we are smart enough to organize a trip in such a way that it would never happen, but it is the only example I could come up with that I'm involved with on a personal level.

 

--Robb

[Electerik]

^ I know. I just have that much faith in you.

 

And I wasn't trying to jump on ginzo. I know what he was saying. I'm just not willing to absolve the park of its share of the responsibility.

 

As usual, we're all much closer together than the back and forth might suggest.

 

/"Never go to a park for one coaster."