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Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

P. 1989: Wicked Twister's permanent closure announced!

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Between tearing down Mean Streak and building a new coaster in its place, it would take about what? 2 full years to complete? That means Cedar Point's coaster count would go down by one and that would most certainly start a riot about how SFMM would have more and blah blah blah.

 

this makes me laugh. 1 full year to dismantle a ride? Why would you dismantle it? You think someone else is going to buy it? Demolition of a ride like that would be easy and a lot quicker than you think. Its called a few big pieces of machinery and possibly a wrecking ball if needed. It would only take a long time if you intended to resell it. Good luck finding someone to relocate that thing.

 

And we know that a ride in its place takes 1 winter to complete.

 

 

I also really, really doubt that the ride draws people. I am there 15-20 times a year, all seasons, weekdays and weekends and Ive even been there on some of the busiest days and the ride will have a 15min wait. It has literally zero ridership. Someone who op's it needs to verify my belief here with some numbers but I am almost 99% sure the ridership on that ride has plummeted in recent years.

 

 

I dont look at this from an enthusiast perspective. The only reason anyone is back in that part of the park is Maverick. Before that, no one was back there. Even then, Mean Streak didnt draw anyone. Financially, yes its a bit of money up front. But I still see the long term gain by installing something like a GCI or a TGG with Timberliners being far better for the park. It would mean the back area gets a new look. Fresh paint, fresh design. New, more realiable coaster. Saves money on maintenance. Draw more people and get more people to walk all the way around the park, spending more money on souveniers and food.

 

 

I look at it from the perspective of money. What is there to be gained. In this case - a lot. Right now, its a rotting shell of its former self. Most people do not like it, nor do they go out of their way to ride it. The reputation it has spans all peoples, enthusiast and once a year park goer.

 

They destroyed Hercules in about a years time and that had a whole section over water. Mean Streak being somewhat compact layout - thats an easy demo. Collapse on itself, bring in haulers, truck it away. Clean area, prep it and it could sit for a year and the new ride could be installed the next year.

 

I really dont think at this point the "most coasters" race is as focused on. If it were, Cedar Fair would have kept up with SFMM. Right now, with this economy, its about making PROFITS and securing long term cash flow. Capital expenditures that generate money (like water park additions/expansions) and quality rides. MS is not a quality ride. No one goes there specifically to ride it. I can however name people who specifically go to ride Raptor, TTD, MF, Magnum, Maverick, even Mantis. MS doesnt have that appeal.

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I really dont think at this point the "most coasters" race is as focused on. If it were, Cedar Fair would have kept up with SFMM. Right now, with this economy, its about making PROFITS and securing long term cash flow. Capital expenditures that generate money (like water park additions/expansions) and quality rides. MS is not a quality ride. No one goes there specifically to ride it. I can however name people who specifically go to ride Raptor, TTD, MF, Magnum, Maverick, even Mantis. MS doesnt have that appeal.

Agreed, the 'coaster wars' have basically been over for a while. In my opinion the number of coasters isn't what makes a park at all, and I think a lot more people are starting to see it that way.

 

When all coasters at CP come to mind, the one with lowest ridership/popularity is most likely Mine Ride. Why isn't anybody talking about tearing that down? It's not that people go specifically to ride certain coasters, it's that a fair amount of people actually enjoy them, yes even Mean Streak. It is rough, but that's the image the coaster as a whole portrays anyway. The only reason there are so many coasters people go to Cedar Point to specifically ride, is because it's Cedar Point. They break records and make great coasters. They're not just going to tear another one down because it's not at the same level as the others, that's ridiculous.

 

Also, to me, the Voyage was much rougher than Mean Streak, and it still ranks as my favorite wooden roller coaster.

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coasterlover - MineRide is a transitional ride. Its there to transition that younger generation into bigger rides - thats why it wont go anywhere.

 

Voyage is rougher but it actually thrills. It has airtime. It has everything (And lately, a dose of pain to go with it sadly) But Mean Streak doesnt give you anything to take away the pain. No great moments of airtime. No thrilling tunnels, etc.

 

 

Again, Dorney tore down one maintenance/eyesore and installed something that costs less to maintain and brings in more people. Cedar Point could do this easily. They could install a GCI that would last 5-6 years without replacing a single board, be smooth as silk, thrilling and fun and still have reasonable cost and increase ticket sales and people to the back of the park.

 

No one said theyd tear one down because its on the same level. Its all money related. You tear it down to install a ride that brings in more money, costs less to maintain (makes more money) and leaves your guests enjoying your park even more (again, makes more money).

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I'm one of the very few people left that truly enjoys Mean Streak but, and this is a big but (hehe "big but" ), Real just changed my mind. As much as I would hate to see it go, I would be perfectly fine with the removal of MS if I knew they were replacing it with a GCI or GG monster.

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Voyage is rougher but it actually thrills. It has airtime. It has everything (And lately, a dose of pain to go with it sadly) But Mean Streak doesnt give you anything to take away the pain. No great moments of airtime. No thrilling tunnels, etc.

Fully agreed. Voyage hurt me more, but at least it's exciting. Mean Streak just meanders about, and most coasters shouldn't do that. It's almost like a Grizzly with a longer and more interesting layout.

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Voyage is rougher but it actually thrills. It has airtime. It has everything (And lately, a dose of pain to go with it sadly) But Mean Streak doesnt give you anything to take away the pain. No great moments of airtime. No thrilling tunnels, etc.

Fully agreed. Voyage hurt me more, but at least it's exciting. Mean Streak just meanders about, and most coasters shouldn't do that. It's almost like a Grizzly with a longer and more interesting layout.

 

Amtrak has a more interesting layout than the Grizzly

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When I went to CP two years ago I must have gotten lucky. The two rides I got on mean streak were actually pretty OK. I guess having Darien Lake as my home park (Predator and an SLC) has made me immune to roughness.

 

I wonder what changes could me made to MS's layout if hypothetically it ended up getting the NTAG Rocky Mountian treatment. I'm sure if they got their hands on it the could manage to give MS some airtime!

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I wonder what changes could me made to MS's layout if hypothetically it ended up getting the NTAG Rocky Mountian treatment. I'm sure if they got their hands on it the could manage to give MS some airtime!

 

 

If the MS were to get the NTAG redesign, I'm sure it would be incredible. lThey do have a lot to work with. But I don't think it will be getting the treatment just yet.

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Between tearing down Mean Streak and building a new coaster in its place, it would take about what? 2 full years to complete? That means Cedar Point's coaster count would go down by one and that would most certainly start a riot about how SFMM would have more and blah blah blah.

 

this makes me laugh. 1 full year to dismantle a ride? Why would you dismantle it? You think someone else is going to buy it? Demolition of a ride like that would be easy and a lot quicker than you think. Its called a few big pieces of machinery and possibly a wrecking ball if needed. It would only take a long time if you intended to resell it. Good luck finding someone to relocate that thing.

 

And we know that a ride in its place takes 1 winter to complete.

 

 

I also really, really doubt that the ride draws people. I am there 15-20 times a year, all seasons, weekdays and weekends and Ive even been there on some of the busiest days and the ride will have a 15min wait. It has literally zero ridership. Someone who op's it needs to verify my belief here with some numbers but I am almost 99% sure the ridership on that ride has plummeted in recent years.

 

 

I dont look at this from an enthusiast perspective. The only reason anyone is back in that part of the park is Maverick. Before that, no one was back there. Even then, Mean Streak didnt draw anyone. Financially, yes its a bit of money up front. But I still see the long term gain by installing something like a GCI or a TGG with Timberliners being far better for the park. It would mean the back area gets a new look. Fresh paint, fresh design. New, more realiable coaster. Saves money on maintenance. Draw more people and get more people to walk all the way around the park, spending more money on souveniers and food.

 

 

I look at it from the perspective of money. What is there to be gained. In this case - a lot. Right now, its a rotting shell of its former self. Most people do not like it, nor do they go out of their way to ride it. The reputation it has spans all peoples, enthusiast and once a year park goer.

 

They destroyed Hercules in about a years time and that had a whole section over water. Mean Streak being somewhat compact layout - thats an easy demo. Collapse on itself, bring in haulers, truck it away. Clean area, prep it and it could sit for a year and the new ride could be installed the next year.

 

I really dont think at this point the "most coasters" race is as focused on. If it were, Cedar Fair would have kept up with SFMM. Right now, with this economy, its about making PROFITS and securing long term cash flow. Capital expenditures that generate money (like water park additions/expansions) and quality rides. MS is not a quality ride. No one goes there specifically to ride it. I can however name people who specifically go to ride Raptor, TTD, MF, Magnum, Maverick, even Mantis. MS doesnt have that appeal.

 

And with Kinzel gone & Quimett in the new guy might not give a rat's rear end about stupid records such as most coasters in a single park....after all it was Kinzel who started that nonsense but he's not in charge anymore.

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^Sounds like a childish argument. How did Kinzel start anything? He simply wanted to build record breaking coasters and so he did. How other parks, chains, CEO's react has nothing to do with Kinzel. In fact I would say that Kinzel is pure genius because it was his mindset that put CP on the map. Prior to 1989 Im not sure the park was that relevant.

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^Certainly the park wasn't as well-known across the country as it is today, but I wouldn't say that the park was particularly irrelevant prior to 1989. Kinzel just helped shift the park further away from the "Disneyland imitation" model towards the modern "thrill park" model and a change in corresponding marketing strategies. That's not to say that prior to Magnum the park wasn't adding new modern rides. After all, Corkscrew as the first triple-looper (and the second modern-day coaster with a vertical loop) and Gemini as the world's tallest coaster were added in 1976 and 1978, respectively, well before Magnum. Magnum's big contribution was a change in marketing at CP and elsewhere, which drove parks to showcase the extravagant and/or "spectacular" giant new rides.

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^You just supported my point. Kinzel is portrayed, by some including the kid i was responding to, as someone who did bad things in the industry. Not sure why people are celebrating his departure from the business. He did great things and as a thrill ride enthusiast, Im grateful for all he has done for CP and the amusement community.

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^You just supported my point. Kinzel is portrayed, by some including the kid i was responding to, as someone who did bad things in the industry. Not sure why people are celebrating his departure from the business. He did great things and as a thrill ride enthusiast, Im grateful for all he has done for CP and the amusement community.

 

Oh, I certainly know that and wasn't trying to refute anyone. I was just stating how CP was relevant even before Kinzel, is all. He certainly did some good things, and although there are some valid points for both good and bad changes that happened during his years, I'll have to say that I certainly couldn't have run the company . That's all I've got to say about that.

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Not sure why people are celebrating his departure from the business.

 

Never understood the negativity.

 

One of the main reasons why I stopped liking Mr. Kinzel is because he made the final decision to close down my home park (Geauga Lake). Some of you probably knows what it feels like to have your home park close down. I'm not saying this to start another debate about anything or to get into any arguments. I'm just saying that there are reasons, like this one, of why people don't like him.

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^ I feel like your reasoning is kinda unfair. Kinzel was there during the acquisition. If Cedar Fair hadn't bought Geauga Lake then perhaps the park would have closed in 2004 and there would be no WWK. Also, as CEO Kinzel is supposed to act in the company's and shareholders best interests. I'm sure any decision he made most likely made business sense.

 

Anyway, just talked to my cousin and she told me Cedar Point had auditons on Friday. We're almost halfway through the off season!

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Not sure why people are celebrating his departure from the business.

 

Never understood the negativity.

 

One of the main reasons why I stopped liking Mr. Kinzel is because he made the final decision to close down my home park (Geauga Lake). Some of you probably knows what it feels like to have your home park close down. I'm not saying this to start another debate about anything or to get into any arguments. I'm just saying that there are reasons, like this one, of why people don't like him.

And these "people" who don't "like" him are ignorent.

 

What you and certain other people need to reealize is that all of these amusement companies are businesses.

 

Six Flags, Cedar Fair, Disney, Universal are all in the business to make money. Their first priority (like any business) is to ensure that they are financially healthy. Does everybody have to like their decisions? No, of course not, and there's never going to be one company that makes the absolute best dicision. This is a fact that not enough enthusiasts realize. People *ahem* enthusiasts who say "DICK KINZEL IS THE DEVIL!!1!! HE CLOSED DOWN GEAGUA LAKE!!!! WHY, HE'S JUST AS HIS NAME SUGGESTS, HE'S JUST A BIG DICK!!" and so on and so fourth, are people that really fail to understand this.

 

Dick Kinzel didn't close down Geuaga Lake just to piss off everyone in Eastern Ohio (althought that seems to be exactly what some people believe.) He closed it down because it couldn't profit with two other parks nearby that were way out of its league. So people who basically say that Kinzel is horrible because of one or two decisions that he made really don't know very much and how the amusement industry runs or more importantly, how businesses are run. You can't look at Kinzel as a single person when running a business, you have to looks at the business perspective.

 

Now, of course there are some things that Kinzel didn't do right even from a business perspective (Paramount Parks) but when it comes down to it, most (NOT all) of his decisions DID make sense from a business standpoint which in the end, is what he was trying to do. He was trying to run a business, not impress us per se, but just attract customers to their his parks which he has succeded at.

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One of the main reasons why I stopped liking Mr. Kinzel is because he made the final decision to close down my home park (Geauga Lake). Some of you probably knows what it feels like to have your home park close down.

My closest park that could barely compete with CP is a 10 hour drive from my house (SFOT). I don't see what you have to complain about...if I lived an hour from Cedar Point I wouldn't give a crap about having any other parks close by. Count your blessings, dude.

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It is clear that many people still want to vent about the downfall and closing of Geauga Lake. But let's keep this thread about Cedar Point.

 

So I've started a new thread, please continue your discussions (and complaints) on the closing of Geauga Lake in the following thread.

 

Who killed Geauga Lake?

 

or in the Geauga Lake Discussion Thread

Edited by larrygator
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^You just supported my point. Kinzel is portrayed, by some including the kid i was responding to, as someone who did bad things in the industry. Not sure why people are celebrating his departure from the business. He did great things and as a thrill ride enthusiast, Im grateful for all he has done for CP and the amusement community.

 

I agree Kinzel was great in his day. Unfortunately, his day has long since past. He needed to retire years ago. May he enjoy his time off, and can reflect on all he did for Cedar Point and Cedar Fair.

 

I have high hopes for Matt O.

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