FeelTheFORCE Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 The past few years it ran great early on, but this year not so much. I'm talking the first few weeks Cedar Point is open, not late June. I would hope all of the early-season bugs are worked out by then. Coasternut, great point though. Could have something to do with the moisture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I've noticed that the Skyride has been down for at least a week as well. Not that it's a big-ticket ride... but it's pretty strange to see that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidcoaster 2 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) ^ I seen it down for a almost a whole week a few times last year. Normally its due to wind since it can't operate with wind over 15 mph and that can happen pretty easily on point. Edited July 25, 2011 by kidcoaster 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterlover420 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Skyride has actually been down mechanical for several days.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 They've had a ladder set up in the station that you can see from the Pagoda cam for about 4 days now... I figured that meant they were going to fix it but they haven't yet. I wonder what's wrong with it. I think it's a real shame when that ride is down. It makes the atmosphere of the main midway to see all of those multi-colored cabins in the air. If it's closed, it looks like ugly power lines running straight down the middle of the midway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterlover420 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Anyone now if CP owns the land just before you get to the cause way? They own a decent amount of land in the area along 1st street as well in the "Big Island" area, including land that is occupied with residential houses and a couple warehouses. The idea of building a parking garage on the mainland has been tossed around for a long time. I don't see that happening but what I could see being done is something that no one ever mentions. Build a parking LOT off point (crazy I know). They own enough land that they could build a lot which is obviously a lot cheaper than a garage. The lot would not have to be as big as the current one either since they could still have bus, handicap and even "preferred" parking still on point. Again, not something I see them doing but it is more plausible then a garage being built. The thing is that CP uses all the land they own. Castaway Bay, Dairy Queen, Employee Housing...they're not just going to demolish it all. I honestly don't see a problem with building a garage on point...it;s not like there's not enough space, the parking lot is the size of half the park. Sorry to be off topic here, but does anybody know why TTD has been closed all day for the past 2 days?? Struck by lightning during the last storm. Sorry to be off topic here, but does anybody know why TTD has been closed all day for the past 2 days?? These "types of rides" have trouble with the high heat. That lesson wasn't learned at the first install Xcelerator at Knotts. Not really true, actually. The only ride that really has significant trouble with heat is Space Spiral because the cabin isn't air conditioned (HAH). Heat is actually perfect for coasters to run well. There's no reason the ride would go down due to something caused by heat. It's not like the track is melting or something, and most parts are designed to withstand high heat in the first place. There isn't a time a roller coaster would be called down for simply heat, and I honestly can't think of a single time Dragster has gone down mechanical for something caused by heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkFunk Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I can understand a garage being a little more expensive to maintain with the lights, elevators and other mechanical equipment etc but with Cedar Point being a seasonal park it may not be as expensive as operating one year round. There's a lot of things involved with this. You need to have not only lights, elevators, booths, and gates maintained, but the non-mechanical parts too. Any building that close to a lake this far north is going to have all sorts of maintenance issues - flooding, structural integrity, the surface on which the cars drive, plant growth, integrity of the staircases and emergency exits, and so on. And that's just the X's and O's of the building maintenance. You also have to secure that thing, regardless of season. I mean, you've been around Sandusky proper, right? Its a dying industrial city filled with blight making a tough transition into a resort town. Most importantly though; it costs a lot of money to erect a concrete parking ramp, especially one as large as what Cedar Point would need. Consider briefly that Universal's parking structure holds 21000 cars, OK? Now, here's a link: http://www.beaconhill.org/Editorials/May20_01MBTA_parkingNOGO.htm It cites a figure of approximately $15,000 per space to construct as a baseline. A few other links I saw generally indicated that this is about on point even in 2011 money, if not more expensive. Concrete and steel cost more now than they did then thanks to the Asian building boom, inflation, and devaluation of US currency. Boring stuff, I know. So anyways, if you multiply 21000 spots by $15,000 a spot, how much is that? $315,000,000. Even if you assume union labor in Ohio is cheaper and they can score some deals on supplies that cuts it in half, its a figure bigger than anything Cedar Fair has constructed. It's more than it cost to buy Geauga Lake. There's a lot of dead space in that park that can be worked within first before demanding the moving of a parking garage. It would be cheaper for them to buy the decrepit factory across the water, implode it, and build a surface lot there instead. by a factor of nearly 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Looking at the webcam, TTD looks to be open today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasternut Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Sorry to be off topic here, but does anybody know why TTD has been closed all day for the past 2 days?? These "types of rides" have trouble with the high heat. That lesson wasn't learned at the first install Xcelerator at Knotts. Not really true, actually. The only ride that really has significant trouble with heat is Space Spiral because the cabin isn't air conditioned (HAH). Heat is actually perfect for coasters to run well. There's no reason the ride would go down due to something caused by heat. It's not like the track is melting or something, and most parts are designed to withstand high heat in the first place. There isn't a time a roller coaster would be called down for simply heat, and I honestly can't think of a single time Dragster has gone down mechanical for something caused by heat. I beg to differ with you on this. At Knotts (Xcelerator) the generator room (where the engine is) can over heat and shut the ride down. They bring in extra cooling for that reason. I'm sure the same is true on TTD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJeXeL Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 (edited) ^^^^ & ^ Xcel and TTD suffer the same heat related problems. It is not the Hydraulic room that overheats but the hydraulic fluid itself that overheats and becomes thin. When it gets extremely thin it becomes harder to compress therefore the hydraulic pumps generate more heat trying to achieve the required pressure thus causing a thermal shutdown via the rides PLC. You are bound to have some heat issues when you have hydraulic fluid under 13,000 PSI running for 10+ hours. I operated an Intamin rocket coaster for 5 1/2 years so I'm well aware of the heat related problems that arise. I have no idea if excessive heat cause TTD's latest downtime but I can guarantee every rocket coaster suffers from this. Edited July 25, 2011 by DJeXeL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasternut Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 ^^^^Incorrect. Xcel and TTD suffer the same heat related problems. It is not the Hydraulic room that overheats but the hydraulic fluid itself that overheats and becomes thin. When it gets extremely thin it becomes harder to compress therefore the hydraulic pumps generate more heat trying to achieve the required pressure thus causing a thermal shutdown via the rides PLC. I operated an Intamin rocket coaster for 5 1/2 years so I'm well aware of the heat related problems that arise. Okay I stand corrected. I was close with at least stating hydraulic something. I knew there were heat related issues with these types of rides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJeXeL Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 ^You were actually correct on the basic principal of what's happening & the additional cooling that is needed during the hottest parts of the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99er Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 The thing is that CP uses all the land they own. Castaway Bay, Dairy Queen, Employee Housing...they're not just going to demolish it all. I wasn't referring to any of that as the land. They still own much more including some of the fields around the 1st & 5th street, River Ave areas. They also own a decent amount of land along the Bay that is not currently used as well as some lots that have houses on them that they rent out to people. They also own some land behind housing that has a few houses and a church that they use for storage. The park owns much more land off point then what people think. Again, I don't think it would happen but they could still have parking off point without building a parking garage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millenniumfan94 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 There is a massive abandoned warehouse on Route 6 directly across from CP, why can't CP buy up that land and utilize it for a resort or parking garage? There is also a bunch of old houses and what not along Route 6. I am sure it would not be costly to snatch up those buildings and also utilize that land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterlover420 Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 ^^^^ & ^ Xcel and TTD suffer the same heat related problems. It is not the Hydraulic room that overheats but the hydraulic fluid itself that overheats and becomes thin. When it gets extremely thin it becomes harder to compress therefore the hydraulic pumps generate more heat trying to achieve the required pressure thus causing a thermal shutdown via the rides PLC. You are bound to have some heat issues when you have hydraulic fluid under 13,000 PSI running for 10+ hours. I operated an Intamin rocket coaster for 5 1/2 years so I'm well aware of the heat related problems that arise. I have no idea if excessive heat cause TTD's latest downtime but I can guarantee every rocket coaster suffers from this. The heat related problem you are referring to has nothing to do with weather, though. I believe the original intent of the question was due to extreme weather conditions, in which case it makes no difference, since TTD's hydraulic room is contained and temperature regulated for that very purpose. And yes, this does happen. The ride will give a trouble light for high pressure and will need to be reset. Also, Dragster was struck by lightning several times during the last giant storm, causing said downtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJeXeL Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 I'm well aware that the hydraulic rooms are air conditioned but thermal related shut downs are more common in summer months for obvious reasons (after reading your post not obvious enough). The fault is not for High pressure. It's actually a fault for LACK of pressure because the fluid can't be compressed due to the extreme temperature. The pumps sit there and generate extra heat by trying to charge an accumulator that can't be charged due to extreme hydraulic fluid temperature. The ride will sit there and eventually time-out and produce an RTL. Thus when the RTL occurs the it's not a simple reset as you imply. The hydraulic fluid has to be transferred through "chiller" units to be cooled down to the proper operating temperature. During this process the ride can not be run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterlover420 Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Well that may be the way Xcelerator is, but Dragster is not the same way. High pressure errors are much more common and are a simple reset and go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejectorbater Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 It cites a figure of approximately $15,000 per space to construct as a baseline. A few other links I saw generally indicated that this is about on point even in 2011 money, if not more expensive. Concrete and steel cost more now than they did then thanks to the Asian building boom, inflation, and devaluation of US currency. Boring stuff, I know. So anyways, if you multiply 21000 spots by $15,000 a spot, how much is that? $315,000,000. Even if you assume union labor in Ohio is cheaper and they can score some deals on supplies that cuts it in half, its a figure bigger than anything Cedar Fair has constructed. It's more than it cost to buy Geauga Lake. There's a lot of dead space in that park that can be worked within first before demanding the moving of a parking garage. It would be cheaper for them to buy the decrepit factory across the water, implode it, and build a surface lot there instead. by a factor of nearly 10. Lmao @ $315,000,000 for a parking garage!!!! You are putting way too much thought into this and not coming across as making sense. I appreciate your effort but your figures are way off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkFunk Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Being realistic for a second: How much do you think it would cost to built the kind of parking garage Cedar Point needs to replace their lot? They're going to need a lot of spaces. A lot. Maybe 5000? Maybe 10000? Look, here's another comparison point: http://www.bizjournals.com/albany/stories/2009/09/14/daily51.html 1500 spaces, $40 million dollars. This is why a parking garage ain't happening unless they legalize video slots on the premises or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiSab Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 You also have to keep in mind that not all projects are exactly the same. That article simply says $40 million, but not how the money is split up. How much of that money is used on the actual garage itself, and how much is for the amenities (i.e., the pedestrian bridge, outer facade, etc.)? Moreso, did they have to do extra site preparation to stabilize the ground to hold the garage? All of that can raise the price of the parking garage if they needed to do it. A parking garage at CP isn't necessarily out of the question, especially considering a few things. If they added a 2- or 3-story garage to reclaim a portion of the current lot, they wouldn't need the extra concrete, steel, etc. to go up 5 or 6 stories. They also wouldn't need to construct stairs and elevators to go up that high either. I'm not talking about building the world's largest parking structure, just one sized enough to handle a decent portion of the traffic and give the park a little extra room to work with in the future. I'm not saying that you're wrong (because let's face it, depending on the planning and site conditions, a garage at CP may be much less or much more expensive), just that you need to look at it from more than one angle relating to a completely different project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmicha Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 ^^^Go to Google and type in "parking garage costs" and read everything you find on the first few pages. Trust me, that figure isn't that unrealistic for a garage of that size. In fact it's probably quite conservative. The cost of concrete and steel is skyrocketing at the moment and some places in the world are finding parking garages to cost anywhere from $15,000 to anywhere south of $65,000 per space based on what I've seen. ^^ Between the main lot and Soak City lot there are about 11,000 spaces at Cedar Point along with somewhere around 2,000-3,000 additional spaces if I remember correctly in overflow parking. If just the main lot and Soak City lot were combined into an 11,000 space garage at $15,000 (quite conservative) per space, that would be a $165,000,000 investment. That's a ton of money for something that is not currently necessary and may never actually be necessary. If anything I can only see a small garage being built to shrink the parking lot, not eliminate it in its entirety. Either way, it's not happening anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastermaniac Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 The people of Cedar Fair probably look at these forums and laugh about it sometimes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkFunk Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 If they added a 2- or 3-story garage to reclaim a portion of the current lot, they wouldn't need the extra concrete, steel, etc. to go up 5 or 6 stories. That's true. But even building just a 2-3 story garage is going to be a large investment and it will require endless investment for upkeep. Compared to, I dunno, eliminating a Mean Streak as far as an expansion strategy goes, I don't see it happening. They also wouldn't need to construct stairs and elevators to go up that high either. Of course you do. Anything you build and plan to put people inside of has to be ADA compliant. Simply having elevators isn't going do the job either, since fire code would never allow them to be the sole way for people to transition in and out of any structure. You need stairs, you need lights, you need booths, you need security cameras, on and on and on. There's no shortcut here. Let's just cut this down right away - can anyone here think of a seasonally operated facility of any sort that operates a parking garage? Athletic stadiums and arenas all run events year round. I can't think of anything comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABW Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 The people of Cedar Fair probably look at these forums and laugh about it sometimes! Sometimes? Try all the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiSab Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 Of course you do. Anything you build and plan to put people inside of has to be ADA compliant. Simply having elevators isn't going do the job either, since fire code would never allow them to be the sole way for people to transition in and out of any structure. You need stairs, you need lights, you need booths, you need security cameras, on and on and on. There's no shortcut here. My phrasing wasn't the clearest - I meant that the stairs and elevators would only need to go up 2 floors, not 6, and therefore wouldn't cost as much money to install and/or maintain. I'm not saying it'll happen one way or the other, though, I'm just trying to think about it from all angles. And for the record, if they do end up building a parking garage, it won't be for quite some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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