Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread

[VF15]

Does anyone know if Valleyfair brings in more revenue than World's of Fun or CGA? Where do we stand in the chain?

I believe Valleyfair is slightly behind Worlds of Fun and CA's Great America in revenue, but not by that much. Valleyfair is generally considered the second smallest park in the Cedar Fair chain (not including Gilroy Gardens), and I'm honestly a bit surprised by that. Minneapolis-St. Paul is a relatively large metro area, so for it's largest park to be the size that it is strange, but then again, except for a few additions, Cedar Fair hasn't really invested in anything major at VF .

[CaptainUnknown]

^^Even though Northern Lights (Disk'O) technically isn't a coaster, it has basically fulfilled Valleyfair's need for a new family coaster, so our next coaster wil probably be something thrilling. Yeah, it's not going to be a Gigacoaster or something insanely expensive, but I think that a Patriot-sized invert or a Hydra-sized floorless coaster isn't unreasonable, considering that Cedar Fair listed VF as a park with potential for large growth.

 

I agree with you on the Patriot or Talon-sized invert, but I'd see more of a Dominator-sized Floorless than Hyrda-sized.

[ValleyfairFan]

Does anyone know if Valleyfair brings in more revenue than World's of Fun or CGA? Where do we stand in the chain?

I believe Valleyfair is slightly behind Worlds of Fun and CA's Great America in revenue, but not by that much. Valleyfair is generally considered the second smallest park in the Cedar Fair chain (not including Gilroy Gardens), and I'm honestly a bit surprised by that. Minneapolis-St. Paul is a relatively large metro area, so for it's largest park to be the size that it is strange, but then again, except for a few additions, Cedar Fair hasn't really invested in anything major at VF .

 

I believe CGA grosses more than Valleyfair but Valleyfair's net is higher, if I remember the FUN Forward presentation from a few year's ago. One thing to keep in mind is that Valleyfair's operating expenses are also lower than Worlds or CGA as their operating season is shorter. So while VF grosses less the bang for the buck is higher if that makes sense.

[xACEx]

When is Valleyfair going to make there announcement for 2015? Will it come after Cedar Points announcement or at the same time? The state fair starts next week so the announcement should be coming anytime soon? I do think its going to be a water park expansion for the 2015 season.

[VF15]

When is Valleyfair going to make there announcement for 2015? Will it come after Cedar Points announcement or at the same time? The state fair starts next week so the announcement should be coming anytime soon? I do think its going to be a water park expansion for the 2015 season.

Hopefully they will announce it by the end of the month, but I wouldn't be surprised if they wait until sometime in September to announce since that's what they did with Route 76. It will be announced sometime, so I'll just hang in there for now.

[RCjunkie]

Does anyone know if Valleyfair brings in more revenue than World's of Fun or CGA? Where do we stand in the chain?

 

It goes GCA, WOF and then VF for revenue but it is very close between WOF and VF per the graph below. You can check out the entire report at: http://ir.cedarfair.com/files/doc_presentations/2013/2013_analyst_day_final_print.pdf

[RCjunkie]

...and I'm honestly a bit surprised by that. Minneapolis-St. Paul is a relatively large metro area, so for it's largest park to be the size that it is strange, but then again, except for a few additions, Cedar Fair hasn't really invested in anything major at VF .

 

I am a little surprised by that too. VF (MPLS/ST. Paul) should be able to match or exceed WOF (KC) wouldn't you think? I agree with you it a lot has to do with how CF has invested into VF which like you said isn't anything major. We will see what they do over the next 3-5 years. I am reluctantly hopeful CF does view VF as a a growth park like they say. We will see how serious they are once they announce the water park expansion and what it all entails.

[MagnumFreak25]

Where's Gilroy Gardens on that list?

[RCjunkie]

^ Cedar Fair is only contracted to manage Gilroy Gardens and paid a fee, they do not own it The city of Gilroy owns the park so you would have to search for a financial statement by the city to check that out.

[garyman6]

I really think this is a classic case of "If you build it they will come". Sound familiar? I really believe Cedar Fair see's the potential market here. Let's consider that Canada's Wonderland has the same population that they draw from as Valleyfair. That's 9 million. But CW is a much higher attended park and one reason is that they have some really cool attractions. Cedar Fair has been strengthening Valleyfair's base the last few years. Planet Snoopy, Route 76 and the new Picnic Point. That facility can seat thousands and produce 3000 meals an hour! Build the thrilling rides, Cedar Fair, we will not disappoint you with our attendance! I'm headed to the park soon and I'm trying to get a meeting set up with Mr. Frazier, I'll keep you all informed if we meet.

[coasterchitchat]

I'd like to see a water park expansion, a B&M invert, a WindSeeker and a Zamperla Midi/Giant Discovery over the next five years.

[VF15]

^^

I agree. Canada's Wonderland is much more successful than Valleyfair because they have top-notch attractions like Behemoth, Leviathan, and Wonder Mountain's Guardian. If Valleyfair would build something like those for once, I guarantee that people would flock to the park. Fortunately, VF is in the same boat as Carowinds, and while I don't expect a Gigacoaster, hopefully we can get something great.

 

I agree with everyone else that the waterpark expansion could tell us how much Cedar Fair really cares about VF. If it ends up being just one slide package, that might bring down my optimism a bit, but considering all of the changes in that area, I think it will be more than just one thing.

[ValleyfairFan]

^Canada's Wonderland was drawing 3 million before Behemoth, Leviathon or Guardian ever opened.

[RCjunkie]

^^

I agree. Canada's Wonderland is much more successful than Valleyfair because they have top-notch attractions like Behemoth, Leviathan, and Wonder Mountain's Guardian. If Valleyfair would build something like those for once, I guarantee that people would flock to the park. .

 

Not that VF has to potential to be Canada's Wonderland but we have no idea how big this market could be due to past neglect by CF in adding first class attractions to the park. MPLS/St. Paul has the same population pool size wise as Canada's Wonderland and Kings Island. Give VF Diamondback, Banshee, The Beast, Flight of Fear and Backlot Stunt Coaster and let's see how high attendance can go at the park vs. the ride lineup VF currently has. Unfortunately VF's ride line up and attraction list just isn't going to make the average park visitor want to go more than once a year, only the hard cores fans like us on this thread visit more than once a year. I have to agree people will flock to the park if they get a first rate attraction not on the cheap for a change. Seriously. The last time this park got a coaster with inversions was 1980....I was 11 years old then and I will still be waiting until I am 47 (at the earliest, probably longer) to see another one. It's tough to visit other CF parks with the same population size as VF and see those parks have so much more to offer visitors.

[coasterchitchat]

I really think this is a classic case of "If you build it they will come". Sound familiar? I really believe Cedar Fair see's the potential market here. Let's consider that Canada's Wonderland has the same population that they draw from as Valleyfair. That's 9 million. But CW is a much higher attended park and one reason is that they have some really cool attractions. Cedar Fair has been strengthening Valleyfair's base the last few years. Planet Snoopy, Route 76 and the new Picnic Point. That facility can seat thousands and produce 3000 meals an hour! Build the thrilling rides, Cedar Fair, we will not disappoint you with our attendance! I'm headed to the park soon and I'm trying to get a meeting set up with Mr. Frazier, I'll keep you all informed if we meet.

 

It's that Dick Kinzel didn't see that it was a good idea to pour money into Valleyfair, but now Matt Outimet sees it is a good idea to pour money into Valleyfair. He wants to bring Valleyfair up a notch. It's a good idea.

[RCjunkie]

It's that Dick Kinzel didn't see that it was a good idea to pour money into Valleyfair, but now Matt Outimet sees it is a good idea to pour money into Valleyfair. He wants to bring Valleyfair up a notch. It's a good idea.

 

And I think Quimet will be rewarded for his vision with increased attendance and revenue by bringing VF up a notch. I like what he has done for the chain so far, it seems they picked a good leader in Quimet who has a real clue on what makes parks successful. I just want to know why Kinzel did not think is was a good idea to invest in VF. He was GM of VF from 1978-1986 before he became CEO of Cedar Fair so I wonder what soured him on investment in VF? Did he just not see the potential even after managing it for 8 years?

[garyman6]

It's that Dick Kinzel didn't see that it was a good idea to pour money into Valleyfair, but now Matt Outimet sees it is a good idea to pour money into Valleyfair. He wants to bring Valleyfair up a notch. It's a good idea.

 

And I think Quimet will be rewarded for his vision with increased attendance and revenue by bringing VF up a notch. I like what he has done for the chain so far, it seems they picked a good leader in Quimet who has a real clue on what makes parks successful. I just want to know why Kinzel did not think is was a good idea to invest in VF. He was GM of VF from 1978-1986 before he became CEO of Cedar Fair so I wonder what soured him on investment in VF? Did he just not see the potential even after managing it for 8 years?

 

You may be on to something there. I don't remember when but I do remember Cedar Fair trying to sell Valleyfair. Anyone know when that was? Maybe Mr. Kinzel was reacting to something that happened to him while he was here!

[RCjunkie]

From VF GM Dave Fraiser's twitter account for you Haunt fans, construction has already started on one maze near the amphitheater.

Haunt maze construction has started.

[VF15]

You may be on to something there. I don't remember when but I do remember Cedar Fair trying to sell Valleyfair. Anyone know when that was? Maybe Mr. Kinzel was reacting to something that happened to him while he was here!

In 2009, Cedar Fair wanted to sell Valleyfair and Worlds of Fun to pay off the debt it acquired from the Paramount acquisition. I guess that shows how low VF was on Cedar Fair's priority list a few years ago. I also heard somewhere that Six Flags was considering purchasing Valleyfair in the late nineties, but they decided not to because it was too small for them.

[BurgoAndM]

When Kinzel was GM there were no incidents that I can find of. Enterprise, Corkscrew, Panic Falls Body Slides, and the Looping Starship opened. Maybe the flooding (if there was any) was what Kinzel reacted to.

[Rollercoaster Rider]

You may be on to something there. I don't remember when but I do remember Cedar Fair trying to sell Valleyfair. Anyone know when that was? Maybe Mr. Kinzel was reacting to something that happened to him while he was here!

In 2009, Cedar Fair wanted to sell Valleyfair and Worlds of Fun to pay off the debt it acquired from the Paramount acquisition. I guess that shows how low VF was on Cedar Fair's priority list a few years ago. I also heard somewhere that Six Flags was considering purchasing Valleyfair in the late nineties, but they decided not to because it was too small for them.

 

 

They also tried to sell California's Great America (And did and then didn't?). My how times have changed.

[VF15]

Saw that Canada's Wonderland made their announcement a few days ago, and their waterpark is getting a small Tornado-like ride as shown below. Personally, I'll be fine if this is a part of Valleyfair's waterpark expansion, but if it is, I hope it's not the only addition, or else I might not be as optimistic about VF's future as I have been.

[madsecar]

Well, with the removal of IMAX and Hydroblaster, as well as the rumored dining structure to be removed, there is so much room for expansion. I'm pretty sure we will be getting more than just a new slide structure.

[DanTheBooker]

Valleyfair has TONS of potential. Market isn't the issue. It's property size. Not yet. But it will be.

[DanTheBooker]

Valleyfair has TONS of potential. Market isn't the issue. It's property size. Not yet. But it will be.