The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

[jmicha]

^^The only thing is, you are being pulled up the back of a Boomerang. On Superman you are following your body's natural path and floating weightless meaning you wouldn't fall into the restraint like you would on a Boomerang. And although you never travel backwards on Top Thrill Dragster the forces exerted on the body when stopping while going forwards are the same as those exerted on the body when accelerating while backwards. Your body is pushed away from the seat back in both. This is what really matters, not the direction of travel and the forces on Superman would not be as strong as most coasters stopping.

 

^Magnetic brakes can't actually stop a train. That's why on coasters with magnetic brake runs there are either normal brakes at the end or a tire drive system to take the last few miles per hour off. It would slow the train to a crawl and it would slow its descent back down until it was released from the magnets.

[Magic Alumni]

I'm in one of those cars in that promo shot! (second row, teal shirt)

 

They used that same shot for McDonald's trayliner ads, and in Time Magazine that year.

 

I was there too...third row...second from the left!

[CharlieT.]

Going back a little bit to the X2 waits, I waited 3 hours for it back in 2008. We got to the ride at 9, and the park was closing at 10. We didn't get on tell around Midnight. It was amazing

[Gmaster562]

SO even with the brakes at the top holding you, you still wouldnt get that Freefalling - sthomach feeling?

[willthethrill]

Remember Freefall? Think of a big version of that. Your stomach would move just like any other drop ride.

[Gmaster562]

YAY! i actually am excited about S:TE. I'm sad that there's no bizarro theme, but i think SixFlags will do just fine with it.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

^I'm not 100% convinced it won't have a Bizarro theme. This would not be the first time a park's PR openly said one thing only to have it change later along down the road.

[fatdaddy]

I think the thing missing here is that I'm pretty sure that if they make changes to the ride that it has to approved by the state. I can't see the state approving a launch past the top of the tower, regardless of the braking system used. If it's gonna go backwards, I can't see them not requiring OTSR's.

 

As far as saying that the ride should have been this or should have been that when it opened, thats like saying that the Model T should have had disk brakes and power steering. When Superman opened it was pretty innovative.

 

In the end, a full speed launch and a paint job would be fine with me.

[Tmcdllr]

^But how is this any different than stopping in the brake run? It's not. If it was there'd be lawsuits about this same problem on plenty of coasters such as Top Thrill Dragster. That would have a much greater force being applied in the forward direction than Superman ever would. OTSR aren't necessary for such a prolonged launch. I still don't see how launching backwards would ever be a problem for Superman.

 

I agree with you, its not that much different at all compared to hitting a brake run. In fact wouldn't hitting the brake run on TTD be harder on the body than launching backwards on Superman?

[willthethrill]

^^ The model T performed as Ford claimed it to. Superman, not so much. Matter of fact, I'm truly shocked at how Intamin sold as many rides as it has in the light of its rides killing so many passengers and so many parks having issues with their technology.

 

^ You're facing forward and the body can naturally brace for the brake run impact. Also the moment of deceleration is much more gradual than the "boost" of initial propulsion on any launch ride. Simple physics shows the two scenario's are not the same. One is an object at rest with a directional force applied to it (launch). The other is an object already in motion in one direction with a gradual force applied in the opposite direction (brake run). Negligable differences perhaps, but with regards to forces acting on a object, not comparable because of the properties of inertia.

 

Its not that it couldnt be done and work, but I would assume theres a good reason we havnt seen a reverse launch ride in any capacity. I for one would ride it and would actually like to see it happen.

Edited August 4, 2010 by willthethrill

[Sir Clinksalot]

^ Killing so many passengers? You say that like it's a daily or even yearly occurrence.

 

Don't pull random "facts" out and not have the ACTUAL facts to back them up.

 

fatdaddy, I think you are right. Any changes to the track, etc means the ride will have to go through the normal testing/state approvals. As far as "Being ok with just a full launch" ... I won't be. They are saying something "BIG" is coming to Superman next year. If they reopen the ride with no VISUAL changes most people aren't going to notice a difference. Only the enthusiasts will and it's not going to have the desired effect of increasing ridership, etc.

[Gigalyte]

I don't see why people think a backwards launch would be instant, it would most likely be a gradual build up of speed, even more so then the launch now. With a new LIM/LSM launch system they could get the car going then hit it full blast to get it up the tower, this would avoid the slaming into the restrainst problem that would come from a standing still launch.

 

I'm thinking S:TE will just get an upgraded launch system and a refreshed Superman statue put back on the tower plus the kiddy coaster for the 50th aniversay

[willthethrill]

^^"actual facts"

4 deaths in a span of 5 years 1999-2004 (Sorry, *almost* annual occurrence)

Superman launch issues, numerous cable snaps on several different ride types (causing injury) over several years

and other countless reliability and safety issues, most recently Exped GE quite literally falling apart.

I like their coasters tho...

Lawyered.

Edited August 4, 2010 by willthethrill

[Gmaster562]

But wouldn't it be dangerous to have only lap bars when you go up the hill and are held for 5 sec. on the brakes at the top? You'd be loose.

[Sir Clinksalot]

^^ But you are discounting that they started building coasters in 1979.

 

According to Wikipedia (always a reliable source ) ... here is a list of the accidents involving Intamin rides since 1979:

 

In 1984, three passengers riding The Edge at Marriott's Great America were injured and hospitalized. The boys were soon after released. The ride had experienced a software malfunction that caused the ride to fall backwards down the wrong shaft.[citation needed]

 

In May 1999, a 365 lb (165 kg) guest was unable to close his lap bar properly on the newly opened Superman Ride of Steel roller coaster at Six Flags Darien Lake and fell out of the train.

 

In 1999, a 12-year-old boy fell to his death on the Drop Zone Stunt Tower at Paramount's Great America. An investigation was inconclusive and no charges were filed, but following the accident modifications were made to add redundancy to ride restraints of not just Drop Zone, but all of the Intamin Drop Towers around the world.[citation needed]

 

In 2001 a 40-year-old woman fell from Perilous Plunge at Knotts Berry Farm. She was too large to be correctly restrained by the T-Bar, and rose out of it on the -1G 76 degree drop.

 

In 2004 two incidents involving the Intamin lap bar system occurred within months of each other. The first was on Hydro, an Intamin near-vertical river plunge at Oakwood Leisure Park (Narberth, Pembrokeshire) in which a 16-year-old fell approximately 100 ft (30 m) to her death. The peculiar incident is very similar to an earlier accident on another near-vertical plunge ride, Perilous Plunge. Hydro remained closed for the rest of the park's 2004 season before reopening in 2005 with modifications that have seen the lap bar restraints replaced with "Over-the-Shoulder" restraints.

 

The second incident of 2004 was on one of Intamin's mega coasters, Superman: Ride of Steel at Six Flags New England in Massachusetts. The ride, again with lap bar restraints, was dispatched with a sufferer of cerebral palsy in the front seat. According to an investigation [1], the ride operators were primarily to blame for not ensuring the man was properly secured. Intamin was also partially blamed because the ride's safety system allowed the train to be dispatched without all the restraints properly secured. Some blame was also attributed to the victim for not notifying the operators of his condition.

Intamin is now supplying rides with the more restricting OTSR (over-the-shoulder restraints) as well as the traditional lap bars for added safety.

 

In June 2007, a 13-year-old girl had both of her feet severed at the ankles on Superman: Tower of Power at Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom. A ride malfunction caused a cable to snap and a cord to wrap around the girl's feet, amputating both of them. She was brought to the hospital in critical condition [1] and the park was later fined $1,000 for not properly maintaining the ride.

 

In September 2009, a cable snapped during the launch on Xcelerator at Knott's Berry Farm. A 12-year-old boy and his father were sitting in the front seats and were injured by flying debris and the snapped cable.

[coastermoosh]

According to rcdb there are 91 coasters from Intamin currently operating.

[willthethrill]

^^

didn't discount, just didnt think that was relevent. No other major manufacturer (B&M, Vekoma, Arrow, S&S, MACK) have sections in Wikipedia for Safety incidents. Scientific? No. But it does tell us something...

[themeparkman25]

delete

Edited January 20, 2011 by themeparkman25

[djbrcace1234]

^ exactly.

 

Take any major incident, and you can see deaths (at least most) are caused by faulty safety checks, or self injury. If you want a laugh, see the deaths of Disney.

 

And just for the record, I did a statistical paper on coaster safety last semester and I can say you have a better chance dieing on the street, for god knows what reason then dieing on a coaster.

[John Knotts]

Well any way you look at it, California has some of the most strict safety laws of any other state in the country. I agree that Superman backwards would probably be fine the way it is, but would also probably require OTSR. Doesn't V2 also launch backwards? I believe it does.

[Sir Clinksalot]

V2 "Technically" launches backwards, but it's already in motion when it does thus reducing the amount of "backwards thrust". I can't think of any launched coaster that launches backwards from a sitting position.

 

I know people are wanting this to happen with Superman, but I just don't see it being possible. All it's going to take is 1 person to get whiplash and that's all she wrote.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

^Yes, but not from a stationary position. It launches forward first and launches backward with the return momentum. There really isn't any way around not having OSTRs. Yes. In theory, you could gradually launch the train backwards, but without an instant burst of acceleration, what would be the difference between it, and backing out of a driveway?

[John Knotts]

I know. I just meant that Intamin has the ability to pull this off. And thinking about rides like V2 or California Screaming, they can use lims to achieve just about anything, including simulating a lift hill. So it's not impossible to launch Superman backwarks with gradual speed. Having said that, I don't see what would be thrilling about that at all.

[Sir Clinksalot]

^ I don't get what would be so thrilling about that either. How is that different than the drop that's currently on Superman now (on the return trip)? The ONLY thing that would be cool about that would be going down that 400 foot drop face first. But I'm not even sure that's even possible with the angle that the ride is at now (and considering it wasn't built for that).

[greatamerica1990sfan]

Glad to hear I wasn't the only one stuck in a loooooong line for X2. Never again will I wait 2 1/2 hours! Next time I go I will get the q-bot. That will be so worth it. Superman I haven't been on since 05. In 06 & 08 I missed it since there was quite a wait. But in 05 I went on Superman like 4 times in a row-3 in the very front then the 4th in the second seat. My only other time before that was in 99 when I went on it once. Wow I've only been on Superman 5 times! PATHETIC!!! X2 once, Tatsu once. Really pathetic!!! I need to get to SFMM. Doesn't look like I'll be going anytime soon though. I haven't even been to Hurricane Harbor yet. Boo. So no cars running backwards for Superman just pushing the speed up to 100mph & the Superman returning to the top that's it? 100mph is nothing! SFMM should notch it up to a Kinda Ka speed now that would be awesome & what Superman really needs! & For at least one side to go backwards!