The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

[coasterking2981]

So, any thoughts on maybe SFMM possibly being involved in the Ride Rotation program for next year?

 

Mine are that the only rides I can see going are Scream!, Deja Vu, Batman The Ride, and maybe Riddler and Goliath. I say that only because they seem to me like the easiest rides to remove and rebuild (except obviously Goliath).

 

But seeing that I love SFMM's coasters, even Scream! to some degree although I also wouldnt mind it being removed, I hope they are even considering the Ride Rotatoin program

[WFChris]

^Nah. They want their coaster count record.

 

Chris.

[GivenOneChance]

So, any thoughts on maybe SFMM possibly being involved in the Ride Rotation program for next year?

 

Mine are that the only rides I can see going are Scream!, Deja Vu, Batman The Ride, and maybe Riddler and Goliath. I say that only because they seem to me like the easiest rides to remove and rebuild (except obviously Goliath).

 

But seeing that I love SFMM's coasters, even Scream! to some degree although I also wouldnt mind it being removed, I hope they are even considering the Ride Rotatoin program

 

I don't think Batman: The Ride would be rotated. This ride is in like 10 other SF parks (mirror versions, etc) already.

 

If something like this does happen, then I only see it involving Scream! or Deja Vu.

[AllenA07]

So, any thoughts on maybe SFMM possibly being involved in the Ride Rotation program for next year?

 

Mine are that the only rides I can see going are Scream!, Deja Vu, Batman The Ride, and maybe Riddler and Goliath. I say that only because they seem to me like the easiest rides to remove and rebuild (except obviously Goliath).

 

But seeing that I love SFMM's coasters, even Scream! to some degree although I also wouldnt mind it being removed, I hope they are even considering the Ride Rotatoin program

 

Personally I don't think you need to sit up at night worrying about this, I simply don't see it happening.

[CreditCrazy]

I went to the park yesterday from opening to closing (but not for the event...I didn't even know what that was until now) and crowds weren't bad. My longest wait was probably 30 minutes for Log Jammer, Batman and X2. Everything else besides that was pretty much a walk on (or close to it), I got 22 rides total.

 

One thing that was disappointing though...staff and operations. Batman was only running one train and had a really slow moving line and nothing ran three thains that could. I understand that it is the end of the summer (er...the summer is over), but the staff was also unfriendly and slow. Terminator had a really short line all day but they were doing assigned seating for one of my rides and the Riddler's ops were messing around with the seats. Some people got stuck in really uncomfortable positions and they didn't do anything about it.

 

The Terminator crew was really good at night though. I got a front seat ride right before 10:00 and they even gave us a second ride.

[haiderodes]

^In fairness to...

 

Batman - When I was there a few weekends ago the second train was missing, I imagine this is still the case...this is rehab season afterall.

 

Riddler - People being in comfortable positions is mostly due to people not standing up straight or bouncing before the seats lock. They do their best to ensure people are propertly positioned, they cant catch everyone AND considering the tricky nature of the restraints it usually isnt worth it to keep unlocking rows to ensure people are standing correctly. ALSO, those folks who assumed they were too special to put their stuff in a loocker or took their shoes off (still dont understand that on a standing coaster) also hold things up.

 

As far as three trains, this time of year right before Fright Fest usually doesnt warrant it. Even in the heat of summer, sometimes they can push the lines through faster with two trains...especially when staffing is low. Just saying...

[ebl]

In my experience and observation, running three trains on Riddler is almost pointless because of slow loading for the reasons listed above. Three trains on work OK on Tatsu if both stations are open.

 

Exceptions, of course, would be a kickass crew that can get everyone secured and make sure loose articles are where they're supposed to be, in a pay-per-use box located in the queue somewhere.

 

Eric

[CreditCrazy]

I know it'd be hard to run three trains on Riddler's (or any stand up) and Batman (because it's so short) but what about Scream, Goliath, Viper, and Tatsu? I saw Goliath running three trains this year, Viper once (even though it was triple stacking), and Scream last year, but never all of them at once or all the time.

[themeparkman25]

^It could be because they were stalking, but I feel like it probably had to deal with the budget and staffing. More trains = more wear and tear = more maintenance costs. Similarly more trains = more staff = higher labor costs.

[**McFly**]

When Riddlers was new, and didn't have the seat belt they ran 3 w/o too much stacking. Line moved so fast back then!

[WFChris]

It's not only difficult to add a third train to B:TR, It's impossible. There is no mid-course break!

 

Chris.

[Calicoasters]

I highly doubt Batman The Ride has three blocks and an operating system to support three trains.

[haiderodes]

^While it doesnt seem to have enough room to support three trains, it does have four blocks...station>lift>course>transfer table/ready brakes. Technically a train is able to be stopped by the trim/saftey brakes before the transfer.

[Guest]

what about Scream, Goliath, Viper, and Tatsu? I saw Goliath running three trains this year, Viper once (even though it was triple stacking), and Scream last year, but never all of them at once or all the time

It costs more money on all fronts. But honestly Scream only needs 3 on the busiest days (i've actually never seen Scream with a real line running 2), Viper is kindve the same way only needs 3 when its really busy. Tatsu I wish they would run 3 more often (or ever!). Theres a been a few times i've been on Tatsu where it was running both stations with 2 trains, and they were allowing the lines after the split were back almost to the split. Thats pretty much 1 train op for a long wait.

 

But at least theyre not all running 1 train simultaneously when its busy like they used to

[THE ONE]

I highly doubt Batman The Ride has three blocks and an operating system to support three trains.

When BTR first opened @ SFGAM it had 3 trains , very rarely did the third train run. Most of the time the 3rd train just sat at the back of the transfer track. After the 4th or 5th season the 3rd train was scraped for parts, I'm not even sure if the third train lasted that long.

 

 

All the other SF parks that had received BTR clones only came with 2 trains.

[CreditCrazy]

^^ It's just kinda sad. When I visited Cedar Point this June Maverick and TTD ran 6 trains, Raptor, Mean Streak and Magnum all ran 3 trains and Gemini ran 2 trains on both sides. All ride ops were very fast too, lines never stopped moving. It was weird, I wasn't use to it at all! This never happens at SFMM.

 

I also visited SFMM the same month and one park didn't have a lot more crowds than the other, so it wasn't like Cedar Point was really busy and needed quick moving lines and SFMM didn't.

[haiderodes]

I highly doubt Batman The Ride has three blocks and an operating system to support three trains.

When BTR first opened @ SFGAM it had 3 trains , very rarely did the third train run. Most of the time the 3rd train just sat at the back of the transfer track. After the 4th or 5th season the 3rd train was scraped for parts, I'm not even sure if the third train lasted that long.

 

 

All the other SF parks that had received BTR clones only came with 2 trains.

 

You know I remember hearing this from some friends during my visit to SFGAm back in May. Makes sense with it having such a long brake run consisting of two blocks.

[cooksta77]

^^Still Cedar Point is very, very different from SFMM. If you look at Millenium Force's line it's never any more than 45 minutes to an hour but if that same line were at SFMM it could e 2-2 1/2 hours. Fact is they just aren't like each other but it would be nice if SFMM started picking it up.

Andrew "I highly doubt it" Iorio

[THE ONE]

^^ Believe it or not Iron Wolf ran 3 trains to, before the seat belts were installed on the B&M Stand ups Iron Wolf ran 3 train operation. Most of you wont believe this but they did.

 

Mantis ran 3 trains before the seat belts were installed.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

Operating costs? Wear and tear? Staffing? Shouldn't these have been things the park should have factored into the equation before they made 20 million dollar investments? I have no idea why the park reduces its capacity on rides that could really use it, (Tatsu and X come to mind). I'm not going to fuss over Scream! not running three trains, as two can efficiently keep the line moving, but having Tatsu's third train go back in service at the end of August isn't helping the park much. And yes, are these things expensive to maintain? Yes...and if that was going to be a problem that the park was going to face then they probably should have invested in much smaller rides.

[themeparkman25]

^Ya all those can and should be factored into the master plan, but economic cycles and their intensity level (thrill factor if you will), cannot be. Have Tatsu and X(2) always been removing trains or is this a new occurrence?

 

In regards to X, the only reason I can think of why they don't run all the trains is the same when they use to operate every other day, the stress fractures. No matter how light they make the trains, the fractures are still there, and running full capacity would be a lot of additional stress on the structure. 1600 pph, according to atem, is a lot to throw on a fragile coaster. I am probably wrong though?

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

^I'm going to have to disagree with you on not being able to predict the outcome of "economic cycles" and etc.

I know we make fun of parks making bad decisions, but in all seriousness, I find it impossible to believe that a park would spend 20 million dollars (give or take) on a ride if they didn't know how it was going to run. With the way engineering is done these days, they have the knowledge of how a ride will behave even when its still pencil sketches on a bar napkin. Truth is, Magic Mountain, though better as of late, is still a long ways behind even local competitors when it comes to things like capacity. And no one seems to be able to come up with a reasonable answer as to why, other than "the cost is unbearable", to which I stand by the point that if the upkeep was not managable, the initial investment should not have been made.

[themeparkman25]

^You make valid points, but the world revolves around money. Yes there is probably some underlying reasons why SFMM suffers from poor capacity, but ultimately every single business decision comes down to one question. Will this action make me more money? Obviously a business's goal is to turn a profit, and one of the easiest ways to increase that profit is to decrease costs. No matter how subtle, a reduction in costs is an increase in profits. With that, I agree with you in saying parks know the costs of running a ride, but they also work into a system that decreases costs as much as possible.

 

Additionally, I am sure parks often consider guests happiness as a measure of business success, but a guests happiness goes hand in hand with outcomes like; how much money did they spend? Will they return again in the future? Will they refer us to friends and family? etc. So indirectly, other measures of business success lead to that one noun, money.

 

Will putting extra trains on X2 and Tatsu drive in more revenue? Do the benefits of adding trains out weigh the benefits? To that I say no, they do not. Guests come to parks expecting to have at least some kind of weight in lines, it is just a part of the expecations and the business. At some point though, the weight begins to greatly diminish a guests happiness, which I would assume is when the park adds an additional train and staff.

 

I'm not trying to argue with you because the two times I have been to SFMM I have noticed the lengthy lines, I am just saying what I think. Perhaps it is because I am jealous that the coolest ride I have in my town is the alpine slide down the mountain. Hahahaha.

[atem122]

^Totally off topic, but is there an alpine slide in Boulder? Or is it the one at Heritage Square?

 

I really do think SFMM needs to up their capacity though, I honestly wont bother waiting for Tatsu if the line goes beyond the first switchback, that's how slowly it moves. Plus you seem to be stuck in Riddler's station for freaking ever!

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

^^I was under the impression we were in civil debate, so there are no ill feelings on my end of the keyboard But in all seriousness, You put it into perspective by cutting costs as the dollar being the bottom line-because for some reason most people seem reluctant to say so. I agree with you 110% on that. Here's where our opinions differ...Could you associate how people percieve the park and its overall rating with things like cutting operating expenses? You bet. How can you provide the best guest service, run your rides more efficiently than any other local park, and give the best overall park experience if you do so with less resources than your competitors?