The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

[Purplepills]

^Maybe, but then it depends what is classed as 'good' condition. I don't know whether with a few new parts, some assembly/general reconditioning it could easily be up and running if someone were to buy it.

 

On another note, I see the Deja Vu's are in 'excellent condition'. I guess this is since they are hardly used

[arrowfanman]

SFMM likes to staff rides with the bare minimum amount of staff, what better way to accomplish that than with a couple of flats that only require one person to operate each!

 

It takes a crew of 3 to operate Goliath. One to operate Circus Wheel. That means for three times the cost to staff Circus Wheel, SFMM can staff a ride that will cycle through quite literally 20 times the number of guests as the flat ride. Staff/guest ratio, the coaster is a better investment. Not to mention, in my experience, the flat rides are always harder for SFMM to keep open.

 

They dont consider the role flat rides play in a theme park experience. Just focus on the statistics.

 

-Jahan

[haiderodes]

^ Never thought it about it that way.

 

Do they ever run Goliath with a two person crew? They have that auxilary panel just like a few of the other coasters. Of course I don't think they do that with more than one train operation, but I'm just wondering if they still do that.

[Guest]

On another note, I see the Deja Vu's are in 'excellent condition'. I guess this is since they are hardly used

Cant speak about SFOG's, but SFGAm's was extremely well taken care of. Tons of work was done this past offseason/early season on the rides control system that made the ride more reliable, the mechanics of the ride were in excellent condition and maintained well. The ride was also painted 2 years ago. Its too bad they spent all that money getting to operate well/look good then got rid of it .

[Jew]

^^IIRC, it takes 3 people with the auxillary panel being used.

[Loco]

Some news on SFMM from Screamscape:

NOTE: This isn't an announcement, basically just rumors at this point.

 

Today we’re going to talk a bit about the future of Six Flags Magic Mountain and how this once crown jewel of the Six Flags chain has become the new black sheep of the Shapiro family. As everyone has been made aware of, Six Flags’ new vision of the future is to go after the family friendly Disney style crowds which was previously the chain’s weakest demographic after focusing on thrill seekers and teens for the past decade.

Of course, attempting to create a Disney style atmosphere is far easier for a park on the outskirts of St. Louis, Boston or even San Francisco than it is for Six Flags Magic Mountain who finds itself living right in Mickey’s very own back yard. Magic Mountain’s troubles don’t end there either, as they also have to compete against virtually every other major industry player in the same marketplace (Universal, Knott’s, SeaWorld and Legoland), all of which have been focusing on family friendly experiences for years. Knowing this, the former groups who have managed the Mountain in the past all chose to focus most of their efforts on the more adventurous demographic groups.

If the latest rumors being whispered in the magic pagoda are true, then management has asked the park to come up with a long term solution to make the Mountain a slimmer and more profitable animal who can be altered to attract those family groups Shaipro is seeking while still keeping the local thrill seekers happy. The solutions they’ve come up will shock many of you because from what I’ve been told Magic Mountain has simply become too large to justify its size compared to the dwindling number of guests who pass through the turnstiles. Two of the biggest consumers of the park’s budget that are ripe for cutting are the staffing budget and maintenance.

 

Staffing – To cut back here they’ve come up with a two prong attack plan:

1) The time may have come to cut back on the park’s operating calendar and turn the chain’s only Year Round park into a seasonal park, closing down entirely for four months from November to February. However they may only cut 2 to 3 months from the operating season if the marketing folks can come up with a profitable plan to create a good winter Holiday In The Park style event. Given the local competition they’re going head-to-head against for this however, don’t count on it. Speaking of holidays... we’ve also heard that they may investigate creating a much more intense Fright Fest experience that would justify it as a separate ticket evening event. As before, factor in the local competition.

 

2) The other plan to cut park staffing requirements would actually cause the entire park to “shrink” a bit. The plan would be to close off a 22 acre section of the park down the hill from Roaring Rapids, past Déjà Vu, including all those small shops, up to Upcharge Central (Skycoaster, Thrillshot and Go Karts) which would remain open. This would return the park’s layout to what it was before the ‘80s and the addition of Roaring Rapids and Spillikin Corners, where the only way to go from here was up to the Skytower and down the other side of the mountain.

 

Maintenance – As we’ve been seeing starting to take place at other Six Flags parks around the country, they’ve begun to remove the attractions that are either the most costly to maintain or the most labor intensive. Using Six Flags Great Adventure as an example, any attraction that finds itself near the top of both lists either has to justify itself through guest popularity (Kingda Ka) or face extinction (The Chiller). Screamscape has been informed that the top three Magic Mountain rides that fall into this dangerous category are: Superman: The Escape, Colossus and Déjà Vu. Déjà Vu’s removal was predicted this year when the corporate office ordered the removal of its two siblings (Georgia & Chicago) and would be removed anyway when they close off that area of the park as detailed above. Superman… it’s no secret that it’s popularity has long since died and this explains why the budget to paint the massive tower Red, Blue and Yellow was killed. Colossus though… it’s a SFMM classic and while it’s not the biggest or best wooden coaster in the world, I have to admit I’d be tempted to chain myself to the tracks before I let them take the wrecking ball to it for purely nostalgic reasons.

The sledgehammer doesn’t stop with the three big coasters however, as several of the park’s other rides have also been placed on the Dead Pool such as the Arrowhead Splashdown (Jet Stream). Oh… and all those years of never adding new flat rides to the mix is finally going to bite them in the ass as Circus Wheel, Spin Out, Scrambler, Freefall, Sierra Twist and Swashbuckler are all living on borrowed time.

It wouldn’t be a transformation without the addition of new attractions however and the new Thomas Town kiddie area is just the beginning. The goal is for the park to eventually have four different children’s themed areas, so expect to see two more on the way in the next 5 years. They also know they want to keep the thrill seekers coming back, so we can expect to see the occasional new big coaster or thrill ride added to the park. They still realize that more than Knott’s, they have the space to built bigger and better coasters to maintain the park’s reputation as the coaster capital of the West. For now though, the plan is to focus on more family level thrills like a possible Dark Knight coaster or a copy a Tony Hawk’s Big Spin that could be placed where Colossus’s station is now over towards Scream. As part of this project, they may also finally take the time to landscape the area under and around Scream.

And while we’re talking about cleaning up… they now realize that the park has a number of old unused structures still standing that need to be removed such as the Metro (monorail), the shops near Ninja, the old Eagle’s Flight upper station and the leftover lower Dragon station.

If Six Flags goes through with this plan, the “New” Magic Mountain will be able to offer up to four kiddie areas with the plan being to offer more children’s rides and attractions than Disney and Knott’s combined. In the meantime, expect to see the number of coasters in the park drop from 15 (currently) to a more manageable 11 or 12.

[DBJ]

Wow! That's a lot of info. I don't see the logic in closing down the route between Roaring Rapids and Deja Vu. There's nothing there to "staff" in the first place. The store fronts between Deja Vu and "Upcharge Central" are good locations for different kinds of retail. I'm not sure the logic of shuttering down those stores instead of finding new merchandise to sell.

 

Superman I can see being let go in it's current form. I hope they can do something creative with the tower. Would it be possible to use a chain lift and create a free fall drop ride out it? The free fall side could be "bizzaro" Superman.

 

Colosuss. Not a surprise. I think however that they could "save" the ride by removing the wood tracks completely and replacing with steel tracks, a faux wood coaster. Losing the ride entirely is like letting go of their history.

 

Surprised about Jet Stream. It's hot in Valencia, and they need water attractions. Maybe if they dumped it for a Splash Battle attraction - didn't Dollywood spend 5 million for theirs? Seems like a reasonable amount.

 

The flats and monorail do have to be replaced, and those locations upon up plenty of opportunities to put in "family" attractions. Once Flashback is gone, there should be plenty of room to put in a large scale family area, joing Thomas Town and BBW.

 

Grass under Scream - they should do artifical turf (no watering bills).

 

Good to read that they know that is has been their thrill fan base that has been returning to the park year after year, and that big coasters/thrills are needed in the park to make them different than Knott's/Disney.

[TriboElectric]

Well I guess I can understand the companies logic about closing down the 22acres, It would be a big shame to see colossus go, it is a fun ride, especially the backwards version (in my opinion the "Funnest" ride in the park) it would be a great shame for "fright fest" to lose that highlight. I do long for the days when there was almost always one side of the track running backwards.

As for losing Dejavu, free fall, jet stream and the flats, I am sad but not nearly as sad as I would have been had we lost X or Magic Mountain itself. I am very happy to see they will be putting some capital in X although to tell you the truth a new paint job and new trains is probably all I had in mind.

Either way, a new era is at hand for the park. Especially with the park being closed for 4+ months a year! That will be a big loss for me that will only be the best news that Knotts and Disney will have heard in a while! Less competition only means more visitors available to fill up there parks. Especially being closed over winter break and the lucrative Christmas vacation season, I cannot see the logic in that. Hopefully they shelve that plan.

Heres to hoping the park stays open year round and that Colossus stays.

[sam06pr]

This announcement sounds good. Maybe this is what SFMM needs. I just hope it all turns out for the best and maybe in the long run this park will be great. I hope they dont try to become and extreme park again and start adding new roller coaster every damn year.

[SharkTums]

^It's not an annoucement. All still 'rumors' at this point.

[superdad1029]

I am all for a family friendly park as I have a 5 and a 10 year old. However, replacing great rides with more kids rides is not the best answer. We live in northern California and make the trip about 6 times a year. For the most part kids rides are mostly the same and kids are happy with just about everything. For instance the kids rides are the same at sfdk and sfmm. When Sfdk put in Thomas Town the rdes they put in were identical with different pain to rides they already had in another area. People do not drive 6 hours for the kiddie rides. We drive 6 hours because the rollercoasters at sfmm make any coaster in northern cal look like a kiddie ride itself.

 

On another note they could save a lot of money for just paying attention to what their employees are doing. For example, Sunday at around 5pm we stopped at the place that has the Turkey Legs by the rapids ride. It was a ghost town around there but they had 8 employees on duty just gossiping. We did not ask for extra ketchup but they just handed us 37 ketchups for a kids fry. Multiply that times millions of guests. I just hope they dont shoot themselves more in the foot.

[Ccron10]

This announcement sounds good. Maybe this is what SFMM needs. I just hope it all turns out for the best and maybe in the long run this park will be great. I hope they dont try to become and extreme park again and start adding new roller coaster every damn year.

 

The big mistake on what the park did was add one coaster but no flats. What I think they've should've done was add 2 or 3 flats along with the coasters.

 

I'd just think that the park would look very bare if they remove all of those rides at once.

[haiderodes]

Any idea when the next conference call is going to be happening?

[vedved82491]

Colossus being removed gets a big NO from me. It's my favorite woodie (of 5 that I've been on), and the backwards side is even better! It's a classic and a legend. I would hate to see it leave. It's shape is pretty unique too. Nothing equal could replace. Also, going from 2 to 0 woodies in a park in a few years is crap too.

 

I hope some of these rumors never come true.

[Jew]

Personally, I don't think that plan is anything more than a very "wild" rumor. I wouldn't read too much into it. It even contradicts itself: they want to close down 22 acres of the park, but demolish old, unused structures?!? It's also very counter-productive to cost saving, since demolishing/removing stuff isn't exactly cheap. Unless they also plan to leave those shuttered rides SBNO, which again contradicts what they are supposedly against....

 

 

Then again, it is Six Flags, and this is just a rumor, so who knows....

[Tmcdllr]

Colossus is not going anywhere.

[TopThrill182]

I think this is a huge mistake on their part. The family market is taken in that area. Knott's, Universal, Legoland, and especially Disney have that market. While I certainly think they should make SFMM a bit more family friendly, I don't think they should treat the thrill seeking crowd and families as equal demographics. If they just made operations a bit better, more flats and shows, and some more family attractions (not kiddie stuff) I really think they could be quite successful.

 

I am worried about the dipping attendance though. I was surprised to see just how empty the park was during my last visit (middle of August). I just love SFMM how it is now, and would hate to see the last of the Deja Vus disappear. But as many people have already said, it makes no sense to close that pathway between Rapids and Vu. Nothing is there, and I don't see what that would accomplish.

 

I am just really disappointed with the direction SF is heading in. They seem to think just because they add new family attractions, they can automatically become the new Disney. I think they need to focus more on what demographic they can best pull from each area they are in, and stop streamlining all of their parks and adding countless clones. They have to understand that sometimes, as in SFMM's case, the thrill seeking crowd may be the best demographic to pull.

[socalMAN123]

Well, this sounds like an improvement/refurb of the entire park. While so many people are questioning why they are closing the pathway from Roaring Rapids to Deja Vu, I actually have read it and I think I have a basic idea of what they're trying to do. Basically, they are trying to close the back half of the park until the Upcharge Plaza place. So, from that pathway all the way to the Upcharge Plaza, it would be no more. They're trying to cut down on the park size to make it more compact with more rides.

 

About the other stuff, I REALLY hope they don't take out Colossus, it's such a classic MM ride. It's really fun too! And with all of these flat rides being taken out, I hope they replace them. Something like a Huss Giant Frisbee much?

---Brent

[PURE]

There are some awesome posts being made on this topic and its really cool to hear what everyone has to say.

 

I think the ideas that were brought up are simply that, ideas. Things to consider, directions to go, its just an overall realistic way to understand the concept that if they really wanted to change the park, there are possibilities to consider. However, I personally am not putting too much thought or confidence into the large quote from Screamscape. Basically, its just an understanding of whats up in the air for MM put down on paper for all of us to read.

 

I can't say or fathom what Six Flags has up their sleeve for this park in the next 5-10 years, there's been so much jumping around in the company, its hard to predict. All I know is the potential is there, there's a lot of money to be made, and at this point with the direction the park has been going in and with the current condition, big changes need to be made. And these are a couple of them.

 

Although I'm sad to see the Xtreme coaster making era of the park is leaving, i'm glad to see the company is willing to make moves that will be better for the park in the long run.

 

Either way, I'll keep making time to take trips to the park.

 

-James

[sam06pr]

^It's not an annoucement. All still 'rumors' at this point.

lol. I have to start reading this better. lol. I just skim through the whole thing

 

They must be crazy if they want to take out Colossus.

[AllenA07]

If Thrillride.com was still around I bet this would be the "Whopper of the Week."

[speedracer]

I think this is a huge mistake on their part. The family market is taken in that area. Knott's, Universal, Legoland, and especially Disney have that market. While I certainly think they should make SFMM a bit more family friendly, I don't think they should treat the thrill seeking crowd and families as equal demographics.

 

Busch has been doing it very successfully for decades in central Florida. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, SFMM needs to use the Busch parks as a model of how to do a world class theme park with thrill rides. If they could do it, they'd actually be a compliment to the DLR the way the BGA and SWF are to WDW. It can be done, but only if done right.

 

As far as Colossus, meh, taer it down. Ain't what it used to be, has seen better days and way outdated by today's wooden coaster design standards. We all know woodies are harder and more expensive to maintain, for such a mediocre coaster, if it's sucking the budget dry, taer it out. With both weak woodies gone, that'll clear the way and justify a low maintenance Plug n' Play as a replacement, which would be a hundred times better than Colossucks and Psuklone combined.

[AllenA07]

It seems like Six Flags is attempting to define a direction in terms of SFMM right now, but they're just not sure what that is. The more pressing problem is the question of what is going to happen to the park in meantime. I believe I'm in the minority now that SFMM should remain a thrill park. Now when I say this I don't mean that they should be adding 400 foot looping aquatrax coasters every year, rather they should focus on making a thrill park more family friendly. I'd love to see the park add a couple of family coasters! Continue to add coasters, but tone them down to the point that the whole family can ride. Of course the park can always decide to add that huge looping aquatrax, track jumping coaster, but again this should be done in moderation. Don’t abandon the thrill park roots, rather become a “family thrill park.”

 

In terms of the flat ride problems, this is a serious problem. Flat rides in many cases are a lot more family friendly, because much of the family is more willing to ride them. I've seen many times where you'll have a family member refuse to get on any coaster, but then will happily climb onto a flat ride that may be more intense. The park could also use some better dining options as well as a general revamping of many of the shows and facilities.

 

In terms of this current rumor that the park is going to basically radically try to change direction... I just can't believe this, there is just too much being rumored. I'm not going to touch on the removal of more coasters, as I could go on a long time about why that would be a bad idea, especially removing a coaster that is fairly iconic of the park. The one that really grabbed me is that several of the parks current flat rides are listed as being in danger of removal. Jet Stream is in danger of being removed??? So lets think about Six Flags logic for a second... They want to build a family park that can compete with Knott's (or so I'd assume, the mouse down in Orange county is far out of reach), and there plan of attack is to start ripping out the remaining family rides they have? Yeah I know when I'm deciding to go to a park I stop and think, "Hmm... Well park A has added a new ride this year, but park B has removed 6 rides this year! Woot deconstruction rocks!"

 

Basically to sum all of this up, I can't figure out what the park is attempting to do here. The rumors coming out are so contradictory of each other that it has become impossible to find any type of direction for the park. On one hand there is the strong pull for efficiency, making the park smaller and more manageable, on the other hand there is a thrust to become a family park, and finally now it seems that there is a movement to become strictly a kid’s park. Five kiddy areas in my opinion seem like overkill. One of the things I liked about Thomas Town is the location, keeping everything central. My argument is that you're going to (according to this rumor) have a park with 4 children’s areas, almost no flat rides or anything remotely friendly for the entire families, and 11 rollercoaster’s? What do they plan to accomplish with this? Families are going to still head down to Disneyland, SFMM will not really ever be able to pull the families away from there. The core group of thrill seekers is not going to continue to come out one for the many new kid areas. So basically the park is going to alienate everybody.

 

Focus on the family, not just the thrill seekers and kids. Build some family friendly coasters. Add some more flat rides, of differing intensities. But begin removing attractions just to replace them with children’s areas? Bad idea.

 

Six Flags is like a hyperactive blind kid in glass store. They needs to be careful or they're going to knock something over and break everything, good and bad, that the store has to offer.

[coasterjunkie91350]

This is just a link but i think you might want to read this

http://www.screamscape.com/html/six_flags_magic_mountain.html

[Goliath513]

^ I believe that is what was already posted.

 

I highly doubt they would remove Colossus as it is one of the icon rides of the park. STE, well I can see them removing that, but with the costs of removal and considering how large it is at the park, they would most likely leave it just semi-operational. I can also see them selling part of the park, but not much. What I mean by this is the former site of Psyclone, the junk yard, and possibly Deja Vu. I doubt they would close off the path leading up past Roaring Rapids as by doing so it would cut off circulation to the park. Back to the subject of ride removal, the only logical removal I can see would be of Scream because it is built on level ground which would allow for relocation and is not a signature ride of the park.

 

As already said, SFMM will never become the next DLR for families. They should market to families but nto devote all their attention to them. I agree they could use more flats instead of world class coasters, but eliminating coasters for this not the answer and would only reduce park attendance. Hopefully when Flashback goes down, the park can use it's space wisely for improvement. IMO that would make a nice re-route of the HH entrance area and for a flat like a Top Spin or something. The answer is not to remove flats. The few that they have are great (Spin Out and Freefall are awesome disappearing classics!). More kiddie areas are not the answer! TT will go good with Bugs Bunny World. If they were to get a third one, it better not come at the expense of any coasters or other good rides.

 

About the old structures throughout the park, they should just leave them standing until they will replace them. Or better yet, find some way to utilize them in the park. For example, the old Eagle's Flight station up near Ninja could house a small flat. As could the lower Dragon station. It would also be a freebie for theming around it too. For Metro, I heard from someone who works in the maintenance department that new trains are supposedly on order for it. We will just have to wait and see if this is true.

 

As for the future of the park, X2 will make a brand new start for the thrill seekers as TT comes in.