Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

[Sammy*]

Agreed and besides, the GP doesn't see this as being just a another Boomerang, so to say that it will contribute to decline in attendance is not true. Look at the advertisements for the ride. As far as the GP sees its as legit as any other new coaster. It will get bodies in the park at least one visit.

[mike_kelly]

Just keep in mind a couple things too from thier standpoint.

 

1. The marketing materials really make it look cooler than it is. The angle of the photo makes it look cool and thats all that counts year one.

 

2. Makreting again, they are marketing that they have solidified thier position as the roller coaster capitol of MO.

 

I think Boooomerang is a bad choice, the name especially. With any luck they will get the new trains with the new restraints and put it together right and it will run like the Carolina Cobra at least for 3 to 4 years. In reailty I wish they had spent the money to rehab the park not put the third coockie cutter coaster in a row in. But it is what it is, and I did buy passes for 2013.

[goatdan]

An additions do NOT automatically result in attendance boosts.

 

Buzz Price actually took a sort of fascinating look at this in his book a few years ago, and essentially he concluded that additions and the amount of money that is spent on them have seemingly no impact on overall guest attendance. His conclusion was essentially that there is no direct correlation between how much is invested, and how that investment does. His argument was that it was *how* that investment was done and promoted that really matters.

 

I think that the big correlation between new additions should be what sort of capacity they have, and if they are a decent ride or not. When you have a pretty well-attended park, putting in a ride that cannot service the majority of the guests in the park in a given day is just a strange decision to me. The most important part of the capital investment is the promotion of it, and if the most important promotion - word of mouth - says that they didn't ride the new ride because the line was too long, it greatly reduces the potential that expenditure has to generate additional sales from people who want to figure it out. It seems that a lot of the investments by Six Flags in the past couple years that aren't retrofits have been low-capacity.

 

Having said that, knowing roughly what Six Flags St Louis' attendance is, it's actually probably about right for attendance. Since it's not a super amazing ride, I agree that it won't do tons... but, it's definitely better than nothing.

[SFOverTexasFan]

Sounds like a lot of folks hate Boomerangs lol. Listen I rode Flashback several times at OT and while I can say it was not the best ride there, it was still a lot of fun. I have read that a lot of people are describing it as a very painful ride. I dont know if its just me, but the ride never hurt me. I mean it was a little jerky, but that was expected. I can understand though how SFStL fans could be a little upset with the addition of Boomerang, but it is another coaster that adds to the coaster count. I personally love the way the CEO (James Anderson) is managing the parks. I mean EVERY park EVERY year will get something new. This has not happened in the past. I feel confident in SF overall future, and cant wait to see how all the parks evolve over the next few years.

[Arrow Dynamics fan]

 

So, I guess you don't like Boomerangs? I think there's little need to keep belaboring this point.

 

Plus, claiming that Greezed Lightning cause SFKK's attendance to drop seems to be, at best , a logical fallacy. While attendance may have dropped the year the ride was added, I believe there were other factors at play (not just Greezed Lightning).

 

Note that I am not saying that adding a Boomerang to SF St. Louis was a great idea. My message here, folks, is that there's little point to beating a dead horse.

Very well, my underlying point is the park is park needs to fix what they have (ex. improve if they can or get better trains for the Boss), have a nice round of painting for many rides, either keep the theming up or rename the ride (ex. the Batman's queue area is nothing like it used to be), and if new coasters are going to be added, make sure at minimum that in the prior tradition (from Jet Scream to Mr. Freeze) that they set a new benchmark for the park itself which saw attendance in the 1.75-2 million range instead of adding just to boast the coaster count resulting in 1.35-1.5 million in attendance. So long as it is not a clone of anything within driving distance, used is 100% fine with me. Frankly, I would be much happier if they were to eventually give us a 7 inversion floorless from one of the other parks as opposed to say a new Eurofighter or El Loco.

 

If I violated any rules, I apologize. I am a bit emotional about this due to the let down of hearing we were possibly going to get a floorless as well as discussions of removing some of my favorite rides at other parks I am a patron of. I simply find it irritating that unique rides are being demolished and clones merely get relocated.

 

The personal notes aside, based on the results of the market research survey that they sent out earlier this year, while I do not remember all the details, this addition does not fit very well with the results. People I know have stated that they will not renew their passes next year based on this. Many companies have top notch marketing departments that make great ads, posters, and naming titles, and yet they often miss the mark terribly because in the modern age of limitless information, people don't look to the company but what others are saying before they make a purchase. This is why many companies have gone under in recent years. A company needs to observe market conditions, look at history of successes and failures, and diversify their investments. Wagering all on one or two markets is never a good idea because sometimes Stars can get sick, have unexpected stiff competition pop up out of nowhere, and have unexpected acts of nature happen to it. The companies that do not observe are hit harder when they miss the mark.

[A.J.]

Very well, my underlying point is the park is park needs to fix what they have (ex. improve if they can or get better trains for the Boss),

"Iron Boss" - Oh, that sounds so wrong...

[vacoaster09]

The Boss undergoes a makeover.

Introducing in 2014!

The Iron Apprentice *Sponsored by Donald Trump*

- the ride should have enough financial backing to be well maintained forever!

[ytterbiumanalyst]

Very well, my underlying point is the park is park needs to fix what they have (ex. improve if they can or get better trains for the Boss), have a nice round of painting for many rides, either keep the theming up or rename the ride (ex. the Batman's queue area is nothing like it used to be), and if new coasters are going to be added, make sure at minimum that in the prior tradition (from Jet Scream to Mr. Freeze) that they set a new benchmark for the park itself which saw attendance in the 1.75-2 million range instead of adding just to boast the coaster count resulting in 1.35-1.5 million in attendance. So long as it is not a clone of anything within driving distance, used is 100% fine with me. Frankly, I would be much happier if they were to eventually give us a 7 inversion floorless from one of the other parks as opposed to say a new Eurofighter or El Loco.

I agree completely that Six Flags needs to start maintaining its coasters better. It has always been and still remains my least favorite park in Missouri. Back before Silver Dollar City built most of its big roller coasters, I'd drive to Worlds of Fun rather than Six Flags because the park was maintained so much better (the two parks are equal driving distance for me).

 

I must insist, though, that Six Flags is getting a clone of something within driving distance: Worlds of Fun has had a Boomerang since 2000, and it was a new build at that time. So Six Flags is getting an older version of a ride that exists just four hours away. Not compelling, in my opinion. Their main competition are Worlds of Fun and Silver Dollar City (not counting SF Great America since it's internal competition), and frankly, the coasters that SFStL has gotten in the last few years just don't measure up.

[prozach626]

Their main competition are Worlds of Fun and Silver Dollar City (not counting SF Great America since it's internal competition), and frankly, the coasters that SFStL has gotten in the last few years just don't measure up.

 

I'll agree with that. American Thunder was a pretty good bang for the buck, but then WOF got Prowler and 1-up'd us again.

[Arrow Dynamics fan]

I must insist, though, that Six Flags is getting a clone of something within driving distance: Worlds of Fun has had a Boomerang since 2000, and it was a new build at that time. So Six Flags is getting an older version of a ride that exists just four hours away. Not compelling, in my opinion. Their main competition are Worlds of Fun and Silver Dollar City (not counting SF Great America since it's internal competition), and frankly, the coasters that SFStL has gotten in the last few years just don't measure up.

^Exactly. I am hearing this more and more from people on the local level as well.

 

ProZach, the Prowler is an excellent example of making an addition that counts. Although WOF already had a woodie (the Timber Wolf) it never really stood out as anything special (and I don't care if it got an award when it was new, it was never impressive even then), but the Prowler on the other hand is hands down superior to the American Thunder. It packs an amazing punch and the line for it was longer than that of the American Thunder.

[screaminkid2005]

According to Screamscape, Boomerang is still down in Texas!

 

Link!

 

[Woodie Warrior]

Yeah, and there goes the chance of Boomerang opening on opening day.

[SoCalCoasters]

Yeah, and there goes the chance of Boomerang opening on opening day.

 

 

Not necessarily. Boomerangs are not huge rides, and can be assembled rather quickly. I think we'll see it open in the timeframe they assigned.

[Woodie Warrior]

Yeah, and there goes the chance of Boomerang opening on opening day.

 

 

Not necessarily. Boomerangs are not huge rides, and can be assembled rather quickly. I think we'll see it open in the timeframe they assigned.

I'm not sure...Six Flags is very slow with putting attractions up...

[rcdude]

^I'd give it another month before saying the coaster won't be ready for opening day. A Boomerang should only take about two weeks to assemble once vertical construction starts, and I doubt there will be any significant problems during testing. If there aren't any footers and the track is still in Texas in mid-January, then it's unlikely it would be open by opening day, but now is too early to call.

[Sammy*]

Well thinking about the condition Boomerang was in it had 24 years worth of filth on it, I guess it makes sense for it not to be shipped yet. They did a great job from what I see

[cfc]

^I'd give it another month before saying the coaster won't be ready for opening day. A Boomerang should only take about two weeks to assemble once vertical construction starts, and I doubt there will be any significant problems during testing. If there aren't any footers and the track is still in Texas in mid-January, then it's unlikely it would be open by opening day, but now is too early to call.

 

I am, to be frank, indifferent.

[mike_kelly]

^I'd give it another month before saying the coaster won't be ready for opening day. A Boomerang should only take about two weeks to assemble once vertical construction starts, and I doubt there will be any significant problems during testing. If there aren't any footers and the track is still in Texas in mid-January, then it's unlikely it would be open by opening day, but now is too early to call.

 

 

According to Six Flags St Louis it won't be ready opening day and they can't say wether or not it will be getting new trains.

[ViperLover]

Why does Six Flags always announce opening days before even knowing if the rides will be ready by then?

[Woodie Warrior]

Why does Six Flags always announce opening days before even knowing if the rides will be ready by then?

Because they are excellent planners! [sarcasm]

[SoCalCoasters]

Why does Six Flags always announce opening days before even knowing if the rides will be ready by then?

Because they are excellent planners! [sarcasm]

 

People can be excellent critics, but often can't perform the task better than who they are critiquing.

 

SF has an entire chain of parks to manage, and the bigger projects take precedence. They are good planners. It takes good planners to manage multimillion dollar additions to more than half a dozen seasonally operating theme parks across North America.

 

There's always going to be delays and problems. I think people jump on the critiquing bandwagon too quickly, and never think about "why did this occur?". Boomerang isn't in St, Louis yet because it's still being painted out in Texas. I'm sure it will soon be on its way. Construction can begin later for a Boomerang than something like Iron Rattler because it requires far less intense construction work.

 

If people bring up SFMM and GL and Lex, it's the same complaints. SFMM is a full year round park, and their return investment can last though the fall and winter, more than the East Coast parks. A while back it was mentioned that SFI has an engineering team that oversees the constructions of the chain's attractions. If that is true, they'd go to SFMM last, because they have a larger return window. It could also be that Intamin didn't finish Manufacturing the track in the original timeline, or it was delayed en route to the park. We simply don't know.

 

I'm not praising SFI, I'm saying that people shouldn't bash them for attraction installation, possibly for reasons out of their control.

[screaminkid2005]

^ I agree 100%! Also so what if it's not ready by opening day. If it's not, then people can just come back and ride it later on in the season.

[Woodie Warrior]

Why does Six Flags always announce opening days before even knowing if the rides will be ready by then?

Because they are excellent planners! [sarcasm]

 

People can be excellent critics, but often can't perform the task better than who they are critiquing.

 

SF has an entire chain of parks to manage, and the bigger projects take precedence. They are good planners. It takes good planners to manage multimillion dollar additions to more than half a dozen seasonally operating theme parks across North America.

 

There's always going to be delays and problems. I think people jump on the critiquing bandwagon too quickly, and never think about "why did this occur?". Boomerang isn't in St, Louis yet because it's still being painted out in Texas. I'm sure it will soon be on its way. Construction can begin later for a Boomerang than something like Iron Rattler because it requires far less intense construction work.

 

If people bring up SFMM and GL and Lex, it's the same complaints. SFMM is a full year round park, and their return investment can last though the fall and winter, more than the East Coast parks. A while back it was mentioned that SFI has an engineering team that oversees the constructions of the chain's attractions. If that is true, they'd go to SFMM last, because they have a larger return window. It could also be that Intamin didn't finish Manufacturing the track in the original timeline, or it was delayed en route to the park. We simply don't know.

 

I'm not praising SFI, I'm saying that people shouldn't bash them for attraction installation, possibly for reasons out of their control.

^ I agree 100%! Also so what if it's not ready by opening day. If it's not, then people can just come back and ride it later on in the season.

Okay, this is a 20+ year old ride that just needs some repainting and new trains (if they're even getting new ones, which is very unlikely), yet two-and-a-half months after being dismantled, it's still sitting in a parking lot. I'm not an expert on painting rides, but I don't think it takes that long to do that.

At this point, there should be construction starting in St. Louis, or at least the track and supports should be there. If you are promising an opening date, it should open on that date.

Just saying...

[SFZIP]

Six Flags never stated that the ride would be ready opening day, very few if any new Six Flags additions are ready for opening day anymore (corporate doesn't think it's really necessary). As has already been stated the ride is still laying in Texas basically all painted by now, it likely won't ship until the new year, so no major construction will happen in St. Louis until then. In St. Louis the Bumper Cars building is completely gone along with most of trees behind it, the area is just dirt. Since there was never anything really released on the exact location of the ride, see the street view of the park of the location here, from this view you will be looking directly at the boomerang part of the ride (it's basically behind the break a plate game, which may still be removed), with the lift hills up behind the pizza place next to Superman, the ride is at basically at a 45 angle when compared to the bumper car building, station/line is across from the Rush Street Flyer.

Edited December 13, 2012 by SFZIP

[Woodie Warrior]

Six Flags never stated that the ride would be ready opening day, very few if any new Six Flags additions are ready for opening day anymore (corporate doesn't think it's really necessary). As has already been stated the ride is still laying in Texas basically all painted by now, it likely won't ship until the new year, so no major construction will happen in St. Louis until then. In St. Louis the Bumper Cars building and the break a plate games location next door are completely along with most of trees behind them, the area is just dirt. Since there was never anything really released on the exact location of the ride, see the street view of the park of the location here, from this view you will be looking directly at the boomerang part of the ride (it's basically where the break a plate game was located), with the lift hills up behind the pizza place next to Superman, the ride is at basically at a 45 angle when compared to the bumper car building, station/line is across from the Rush Street Flyer.

Um, in St. Louis a news station interviewed the park president and he said the ride would be open on opening day 2013...