robbalvey Posted July 22, 2013 Author Share Posted July 22, 2013 I may be on HLN in the next 20 min talking about NTAG... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyRush Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 I may be on HLN in the next 20 min talking about NTAG... It was cool watching it, they had the Royal crap, then the 3 female murders, then Michael Jackson, and finally Robb Alvey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
livinandrockin Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 As a rider of 250 coasters (but not NTAG); a former coaster op at KBF; a mechanical engineer; a 6'2" 250lb fella who was recently denied ridership of my first coaster (wicked twister); and a reader of the past 40 pages of posts and articles i wanted to put forth my 2 cents: -i believe with a high degree of confidence that the restraints operated as designed and experienced no sort of failure -i believe that seat belts alone would not have prevented this tragedy. as others have stated, seat belts ensure that a minimum angle of closure of the restraint is met. according to y'all, NTAG's limit switches, which manifest as green lights, provide this same function -i believe that nothing can be designed with 100% certainty. again, as others have stated, this tragedy was most likely a freak accident, that is, the perfect storm of rider size and proportions, and the level of operational safety checks -i believe that at a minimum, operational procedures will be revamped such as being required to ensure contact with the thighs, or any other recommended measure to ensure rider safety. we may also see new restraints, new trains, or even, as a worst case scenario, a ride experience alteration, such as trim brakes (hope not as i don't have the credit yet) thanks for listening, and i do wish to extend heart-felt condolences to the victims Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharkTums Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 ^I think you'll find all of your points well received here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernierocker Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 As a rider of 250 coasters (but not NTAG); a former coaster op at KBF; a mechanical engineer; a 6'2" 250lb fella who was recently denied ridership of my first coaster (wicked twister); and a reader of the past 40 pages of posts and articlesi wanted to put forth my 2 cents: -i believe with a high degree of confidence that the restraints operated as designed and experienced no sort of failure -i believe that seat belts alone would not have prevented this tragedy. as others have stated, seat belts ensure that a minimum angle of closure of the restraint is met. according to y'all, NTAG's limit switches, which manifest as green lights, provide this same function -i believe that nothing can be designed with 100% certainty. again, as others have stated, this tragedy was most likely a freak accident, that is, the perfect storm of rider size and proportions, and the level of operational safety checks -i believe that at a minimum, operational procedures will be revamped such as being required to ensure contact with the thighs, or any other recommended measure to ensure rider safety. we may also see new restraints, new trains, or even, as a worst case scenario, a ride experience alteration, such as trim brakes (hope not as i don't have the credit yet) thanks for listening, and i do wish to extend heart-felt condolences to the victims Well said. I think you've hit the nail on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chroniq Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 Since we are all just talking- I'd like to talk about hydraulic cylinders for a second. I own a number of pieces of heavy machinery-(a couple tractors, two bobcats/skid steers and an excavator)... They all use hydraulic cylinders. What's a hydraulic cylinder? It's a locking mechanism that is mono directional.. Think of it as a syringe. It shoots hydraulic fluid into the mechanism that can only be removed if force is applied via engine conversely. So if one of my tractors or skid steers immediately blows a line, fails, etc. The hydraulic cylinder locks forks, bucket or claw in place so I don't die, the bucket doesn't fall, the machine doesn't flip, the forks don't kill someone on on the ground. So here's the thing- This is a fail safe for relatively dangerous heavy machinery. It's the industry standard. Each one of my machines has one hydraulic cylinder. NTAG- had TWO hydraulic cylinders just in case the first fails. Did the hydraulics lap bar fail on NTAG? No, I don't think it did. The only possible way in my mind is if one cylinder failed and the computer program operating the ride allowed ride operators to override the indicators on the first cylinder. That doesn't even seem remotely likely. -Chris "though I'm not an engineer, but I did stay at a holiday inn express" Con PS Someone post a video of Robb on HNL... Great to see our community leaders getting media attention on a national level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXman308 Posted July 22, 2013 Share Posted July 22, 2013 PS Someone post a video of Robb on HNL... Great to see our community leaders getting media attention on a national level. I would also like to see it. However, it's a shame though that this only happens when bad things happen at amusement parks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sportsdude360 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) Just came back from the park, pretty crowded for a Monday. I noticed many guests taking pics of NTAG. It's obviously gotten to be quite famous, but for the wrong reasons. There wasn't much happening around NTAG itself, save for a sign stating that the ride was "Temporarily Closed". The train was running again so I took a few pics. Near the area where the tragedy occured. This sign greeted park guests. That banking turn might have been where the accident occured . Black tarp covered the loading station. Near the area where Rozy Esparza fell out of the train. The once mighty Texas Giant has fallen silent. How many times have I walked up these stairs over the years? The Giant is silent. The black tarp seems appropriate. My favorite pic of NTAG. Edited July 23, 2013 by Sportsdude360 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonR Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I think we also need to start distinguishing between the types of seatbelts if we're going to discuss if they'd be beneficial or not. There are the backup kind of lap belts, totally independent of the lapbar, which may have helped or may not have. Then there are the restraint belts that buckle into the restraint (like B&M's or Mr. Freeze's that buckle into the side of the lapbar). I doubt these would have helped as they're primarily there to determine if the bar is down far enough, something the Giant's indicator lights already do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie200330 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I may be on HLN in the next 20 min talking about NTAG... It was cool watching it, they had the Royal crap, then the 3 female murders, then Michael Jackson, and finally Robb Alvey! Michael Jackson gets better billing than Robb Alvey??? What is this world coming too!!!! LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandallDuell Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I feel like Six Flags kills so many people that there should be Vegas odds as to the next time it happens. Put me down for $100 in June 2014. How can we figure out how to do this as a TPR pool? I'd throw some money down. -chris "too soon?" con Serious Edit: looked at the reverse POV posted earlier in this thread.. It looks like via Robb and Jake's movement that only major ejector air is at 3:46 and 4:04 ...Based on my incredibly limited knowledge of roller coasters, I'd expect that it happened at either of these places on the ride ( sorry to speculate! ) Why is this ok to post? I get the humor disclaimer, but is an accident like this one really a time to joke about Six Flags killing people or placing pretend wagers on the next death? Really? I don't really even get the need to crack wise when a kid hops a fence to grab his hat and gets killed...but, ok, Darein and his garbage truck -- here it was some lady (who wasn't acting like an ass) that tragically died causing much sadness to her friends/family/folks who witnessed it etc. Anyway, this seems like a horrendous set of circumstances where most every precaution possible is taken and a bad thing happens - if this were your mom or sister or aunt, can you imagine trying to rationalize all of this? Awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbalvey Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 I will be on HLN's "After Dark" tonight at 10pm discussing the safety of roller coasters and the accident. Be sure to tune in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougMJr Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 ^I wish that I had HLN Hopefully some of the clips end up online somewhere. I'd love to see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chroniq Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I will be on HLN's "After Dark" tonight at 10pm discussing the safety of roller coasters and the accident. Be sure to tune in! FWIW- I've been spending the past two hours watching Nancie Grace cry (if anyone else was watching, she legitimately cried for 30 minutes of the show) and Dr Drew yell at other talking heads to check this out.. Looking forward to see TPR on national TV.. Awesome stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernierocker Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) I get the humor disclaimer, No, it doesn't look like you do get it. People deal with accidents like this in their own way, it is not up to you to decide which is the "right" way. Edited July 23, 2013 by ernierocker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azza29 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 -i believe that nothing can be designed with 100% certainty. again, as others have stated, this tragedy was most likely a freak accident, that is, the perfect storm of rider size and proportions, and the level of operational safety checks Couldn't agree more. It definitely looks like a combination of factors contributed to the accident rather than a single point of failure. I feel awful for the ride ops - not that it was their fault, but if it was me the thought of "what if I'd done something differently" would be running through my mind non-stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corona79 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Wikipedia doesn't bother with verifying "facts" " A ride attendant assured her that as long as she heard a [the word that must not be mentioned], it was secure" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singemfrc Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Wikipedia doesn't bother with verifying "facts"" A ride attendant assured her that as long as she heard a [the word that must not be mentioned], it was secure" Wikipedia has no part in writing or editing the articles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasThrillSeekers Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I feel like Six Flags kills so many people that there should be Vegas odds as to the next time it happens. Put me down for $100 in June 2014. I would also have to agree that this is inappropriate. Having a sense of humor is one thing, betting on death is completely different. What would the family of victim think if they saw this? Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougMJr Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) I would also have to agree that this is inappropriate. Having a sense of humor is one thing, betting on death is completely different. What would the family of victim think if they saw this? Sad. Nobody is betting on deaths, they are joking about hypothetically betting about deaths... there is a difference. They were not talking about the Victim specifically, and Six Flags was really at the butt end of the joke here. It wasn't a funny joke, but it wasn't all that offensive either. Edited July 23, 2013 by DougMJr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamico2 Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I will be on HLN's "After Dark" tonight at 10pm discussing the safety of roller coasters and the accident. Be sure to tune in! So, I didn't even see this post but just so happened to be flipping through channels a minute ago and caught you saying amusement rides are FUN! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasThrillSeekers Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Wikipedia has no part in writing or editing the articles. No, they don't! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paiging_jen Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Wikipedia doesn't bother with verifying "facts"" A ride attendant assured her that as long as she heard a [the word that must not be mentioned], it was secure" Wikipedia should NEVER be considered a source for any type of news. I could go edit the page right now to say Tinker Bell swooped in unbeknownst to all riders and released her lap bar therefore causing her untimely death. Never go to Wikipedia as a source for completely accurate info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasThrillSeekers Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 And, they were not even talking about her specifically. I didn't say they were talking about her. (Rosy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vtafro Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) I will be on HLN's "After Dark" tonight at 10pm discussing the safety of roller coasters and the accident. Be sure to tune in! Watching this for Robb, but this isn't fair, they were showing that 7 people died on roller coasters in a recent year; which is awful, but how many people died in car accidents just today? Edited July 23, 2013 by Vtafro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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