The Knott's Berry Farm (KBF) Discussion Thread

[knottslover77]

^yeah it is also one of the most expensive to keep running, plus it has alot of down time.

 

--Jay

[Jew]

FYI: Cedar Fair announced their capital expansion plans for 2009, and nothing was mentioned about Knotts. So whatever this is for, it is NOT for this year. Word is they are just going to put some grass there and possibly some playground equipment to fill in the gap until whatever project it is for gets underway.

[Crazy4Coasters!]

^ Burst!!! That's the sound of my TTD clone bubble dream coming to an end

 

Well whatever Knott's is cooking up will make for an interesting storyline to follow, if any... Thanks for the info

[itnotfair]

^Of all the coasters they could build, why would you assume it would be a TTD clone? They have Xcelerator, which has an even better launch, I hear.

[Crazy4Coasters!]

^ I was just messing around, I think I under estimated my sarcasm abilities

[JimmyBo]

^ You were being sarcastic! I thought you were serious! I was hoping Knott's would get TTD because it is so much better than Xcelerator!

[Crazy4Coasters!]

^ And the sarcasm train continues to roll on... which I heard goes faster than TTD's and Xcelerator's combined

[cfc]

^Maybe they'll combine an Intamin launcher with the Wacky Soapbox Racers.

 

Yeah--Xcelerator with soap-box cars! That's the ticket!

[jamesdillaman]

^ If they are still on racing tracks... yeah, sign me up for racing TTD's... it would even fit the theme.

 

-James Dillaman

[knottslover77]

^Of all the coasters they could build, why would you assume it would be a TTD clone? They have Xcelerator, which has an even better launch, I hear.

 

Well if you go by acceleration per second Xcelerators launch is more intense.

 

--Jay

[the ghost]

^ If they are still on racing tracks... yeah, sign me up for racing TTD's... it would even fit the theme.

 

-James Dillaman

 

Its Cedar Fair, unless the theme you are referring to is trash cans or rides taking up classic knotts stuff( after pony express was built bigfoot rapids will never be the same)

 

BTW A while ago I heard rumor that knotts would be working on something major in the future and I think I heard mention of a B&M hyper or mini hyper. Don't know for sure though, just saying what I heard.

 

Don't know where they would put it though.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

Xcelerator's launch is better IMO, but overall Dragster's still a better ride. I'm sure that Knott's will just cram another PG coaster in that spot in 2010. Still, if they're taking all these iconic items in the park out, might as well be for an Intamin hyper.

[Sean Menefee]

Add me to the list of people who think Xcel's launch/ride is better then TTD or Kingda Ka. I love the punch out of the station on Xcelerator, instead of the huge run-up to speed on 400+ foot rocket coasters.

 

-Sean

[goatdan]

For those of you wondering what Knott's used to be like, well, it was quite amazing. It was like a Disney park, but with a more mature theme. Gone were the Fantasyland style characters and the sugar coated rides, and in their place were things that were still fun and appropriate for all ages, just a little less 'family friendly.'

 

I don't know what of this they still do, but the Western section used to have a ton of character. There were gun battles in the streets, and people dressed up as sheriffs and bad guys would wander around and you could interact with them. I very specifically remember there being a "jail" building where a sort-of audio aminatronic guy would talk with you (through someone else hidden somewhere -- looking back, I don't know why the guy wasn't just in there, but whatever). The train got held up by robbers, and people came and 'saved' you.

 

They had a fair mix of dark rides, coasters and other unique things. I remember the Bigfoot Rapids section (just opened when I was there), which was highly themed, included park rangers walking around both at the school room, and one was out front the ride telling people about Bigfoot that may lurk nearby. I had never been so blown away.

 

Now, admittedly I was about 9 years old at the time so this may not be 100% accurate, but it was really impressive because you could interact with so many people. It felt like you were in a world where for the most part, there was a big show going on around you always, and you never knew if you wanted to get on a ride lest you miss someone getting shot and falling off a roof, or something else amazing that you would have never expected to see happen.

 

The whole park was like this. Everything was based around the theme of the areas, and the rides themselves for the most part came completely secondary to just enjoying the surroundings. When I returned in 1998, I had the choice of going to Magic Mountain for free on my season pass, or paying to get into Knotts and I easily took the paying for Knotts. At the time, I thought it was the much superior park. Even though a lot of what had made it so great in my first visit was no longer there, it seemed like a lot of it had been replaced with new stuff that was just as impressive. Mystery Lodge was mind-blowing, and made up for anything that I felt had been removed.

 

Cedar Fair when they took over the park didn't seem to understand the specific point that it held in Southern California. It didn't compete with Disney -- that park was and is about as sugar coated as can be, and is ultimately mostly about the rides. It didn't compete with Universal, and the incredible expensive rides they built that took you into the movies. It could have never competed with Magic Mountain, as that park was ALL about the thrills and had years of building them under their belt.

 

But Cedar Fair seems to have decided that the Magic Mountain route was the way to go, so they have built rides to compete with their line up. But ultimately, Knotts doesn't have the land to ever truly 'catch up' with the amount of extreme rides that the Mountain has, so it now seems to be caught in an odd sort of limbo, where Cedar Fair is trying to build more attractions that will bring back in the original crowd, but not completely understanding that I don't think that it was the attractions that well, attracted people as much as it was the unique sense of place and show that went on in that park.

 

And that's my overwritten thoughts on Knott's

[cfc]

^I think that sums it up pretty well. Yes, I'm one of those "oldtimers" who gripes about how Knott's has lost a lot of its charm over the years. The Ghost Town is a shadow of what it used to be, but the stagecoach is still running, and I think the train is still regularly "held up."

[AllenA07]

Last time I was there I was held up on the train, so as far as I know they still do that. Those are the little things that are leaving Knott's which really made the park special.

 

Back when they added it I was actually all for Ghostrider, I thought it was a great addition to the park and it fit in well with the theme. It was Silver Bullet where I really started seeing the problems that park was in for. Hopefully we'll see some of the remaining things that Knott's has remain in order to keep some of it's original charm.

[socalMAN123]

I very specifically remember there being a "jail" building where a sort-of audio aminatronic guy would talk with you (through someone else hidden somewhere -- looking back, I don't know why the guy wasn't just in there, but whatever). The train got held up by robbers, and people came and 'saved' you.

Just to let you know, those things still happen. A visit to Sad Eye Joe is almost a must-do for every visit to Knott's.

---Brent

[goatdan]

^^^

 

No, I believe that at least some of it does, but I can't say that I saw it on my last trip as often as it seemed to occur when I was younger, although I'll readily admit that may have just been because I didn't visit the right places at the right times.

 

I do know that the additions have taken out a lot of the stuff that I thought was extremely cool upon that first visit. I didn't find my last visit to be unenjoyable -- I think the Mystery Lodge was spectacular, even if the story is a little slow moving, and although it seemed like there were less 'character' employees around, it still seemed neat.

 

I've visited that area of California five times since that point, and although Knotts has added a lot under the Cedar Fair regime, nothing has captured my attention or felt like it was correct for that park, and because of that their changes have made me end up deciding to visit other parks. When Silver Bullet went in, I thought about it and how it looked pretty fun, and then I decided I should actually visit all of Magic Mountain's coasters since they definitely had a better quantity than Knotts did of the high thrills. When Pony Express went in, it made me think about the family rides that had been installed or upgraded at the Disney parks and made me end up deciding to go over there instead.

 

Knotts was unique and completely different in a market with a lot of competition, and I don't think that Cedar Fair understood / understands that aspect of their park. And to be frank, I don't know how many people outside of the original owners of the park ever could have run that park "correctly" as it seemed like the entire show might have been something made up in their heads, and not something that could have easily transferred to others.

 

I still like it and sometime would like to go back. But I hope that when I do those special bits aren't removed.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

Prior to working at Knotts in 2006, I had visited the park twice. Once when I was about 8. (Boomerang scared the beJesus out of me) Once in 2004. On my prior visit, the park was still family owned. I remember the petting zoo, and the free pogs they gave out that day. I remember for the scaredy cat I was (at the time, of course) I still had a lot of fun. In 2004 (I was 17) I had a love of riding coasters, but wasn't an enthusiast yet. All I remember was thrill rides. None of the fun stuff to do was there anymore. Now what passes for kid entertainment at knott's is, "If Xcelerator is too scary for you, then ride Pony Express". Milder coasters don't equal family rides. I wonder when Dick will get the point.

[goatdan]

^^^

 

I don't expect him to get the point with Knotts. The flagship of the Cedar Fair chain has always and probably will always be Cedar Point, and the way that they have positioned Cedar Point has always been that it has the biggest, baddest and "best" coasters on the planet.

 

I think that when they took over Knotts, they figured a similar approach would work. Bigger coasters, and more of 'em.

 

Cedar Fair doesn't have anything similar to Knotts in their entire chain, and I don't think Knotts will be returned to its "roots" by the chain ever. And like I said, even in a sale, I think Knotts was a totally unique place based on a family trying to tell multiple stories and them really being the only people who knew exactly how those stories would play out. Now that they are gone, those stories will slowly fade out no matter who runs the park.

[Electerik]

I worked at Knott's when Cedar Fair came in. At first, their contributions were mostly positive: They added Supreme Scream and accelerated the construction of GhostRider. Perilous Plunge was the first sign of wrongness to me. And if I had any doubt left, it was erased when they replaced my beloved Haunted Shack with an unthemed upcharge attraction. Ug.

 

I don't hate Cedar Fair, by any means. (Actually, I've worked for them twice now.) They have their niche. Unfortunately, they seem dead set on fitting Knott's into it.

[Bolliger&Mabillard]

I don't hate CF either, It's a great business and one of the few park names turning a profit now. I just hate what has had to become of Knott's. There's no place for nostalgia in a Xtreme park age. More of the park's charm and scenary will be taken down for future expansion. As much as it sucks for enthusiasts, it's what the park has to do to remain profitable. As long as the park doesn't get another B&M I'm fine. (The one in there now barely fits)

[socalMAN123]

A park that kind of reminds me of the old Knott's is Lagoon in Logan, UT. The Old West section is awesome.

---Brent

[DegoRed]

Knott's has been more and more disappointing over the years, to the point now where I think I've been maybe twice this year and once to Haunt. I used to visit the park at least once a month, but the charm of the old Knott's is gone now. As far as Camp Snoopy is concerned, I think Sidewinder was a decent addition, but Pony Express? WOW what a complete waste of space is that ride, it has a turn a hill and a turn. Knott's already has a short launched coaster (Xcelerator) why build another. I saw so many kids coming off that ride saying how stupid and pointless it was. Great idea Knotts!! Here's an idea...STOP BUILDING COASTERS!!! It takes a lot for me to say that, but the place has enough...It's time to focus on doing something GOOD with the KoD building, bring in some more flats. Save what little shred of charm is left in that place. If something isn't done, I have a feeling we'll see some major alteration of Ghost Town in the near future, and not for the good.

[KnottsDisneyFarm]

I think Knotts should take out Wild Water Wilderness and replace it with a B&M Hyper on par with Behemoth and Millennium Force.