Geauga Lake Discussion Thread

[CP Maverick]

I was (and still am) bitter because I grew up going there. I have friends that worked there. Some of those friends lost their jobs after what they described as "the busiest summer since Six Flags."

 

Nothing about that property was handled well after Sea World left.

[DILinator]

Did anybody besides me (and my brother) actually REALLY like the park when it was briefly Six Flags: Worlds of Adventure? I went there with my brother back in 2002, and we both LOVED it! Afterward, we were discussing whether it was possibly better than CP even. Now, I'm not saying it WAS, but the fact that it made us even ask that question surprised me, especially coming from a Six Flags park!

 

Man... Granted, I haven't read through all the pages around when this park closed, to see the tenor of the posts, but I'm a little surprised by the callousness on display towards those who really cared about GL, and are genuinely sad, and upset, about the way it was closed, and the lack of respect for a great, classic coaster like Big Dipper. I'm not quite on that level, but have a few friends who are, and I am very sympathetic to their plight. Also, I really loved Big Dipper, and hate to see a perfectly good coaster fall into ruin.

We actually were all a little bummed, to varying degrees, when it was announced that the park was closing. Especially seeing how much it had grown and I actually really liked the final incarnations of the park.

 

But there were groups of people who took it to a whole other level. A level that would be impossible to register on any scale of rational thinking. It got to an absurd point and that's when we all started to have a bit of fun with it.

 

We thought it was HILARIOUS!!! But there were some that didn't. And that made it even MORE HILARIOUS!!!!

 

Ahhh.... I see... I can imagine, based on some of the things I saw and heard, back in the day when it suddenly closed!

 

Being an out of stater, its closing didn't register on an emotional level for me really, though I really did like the place, and was therefore sad. What really bums me is seeing the condition it is in now, and remembering the fun days I've had there. I also just didn't like how CF handled the situtation... I'm glad they at least announced WWK's closing in advance this time, so people who do care about the water park, can get their last visits in. I imagine had they done this with GL, a lot of the people still salty about its closing, would feel at least a little differently...

[robbalvey]

Did anybody besides me (and my brother) actually REALLY like the park when it was briefly Six Flags: Worlds of Adventure? I went there with my brother back in 2002, and we both LOVED it! Afterward, we were discussing whether it was possibly better than CP even. Now, I'm not saying it WAS, but the fact that it made us even ask that question surprised me, especially coming from a Six Flags park!

Yes actually. When I said that the later years were my favorite incarnation of the park I actually meant these years as it was the last time I visited the park. When it was one HUGE Six Flags park, I actually thought that, given a few more years developing it, that property could give Cedar Point a run for it's money. But at that time, Six Flags was looking for immediate profits, which wasn't going to happen instantly, it would take a few years, and Cedar Fair wasn't about to let Six Flags come in and steal Cedar Point's thunder.

 

I actually don't blame Cedar Fair for doing what they did. It was the smartest business decision to totally wipe out any potential competition. If I was in charge of Cedar Fair and I was watching Six Flags move in on my territory and had a chance to strike when they were slightly down, I would have done the exact same thing.

 

Had Cedar Fair waited even just a little while longer to buy that park until the economy started turning around and maybe by then Six Flags wouldn't have been interested in selling, who knows what would have happened. But they were quick to react to Six Flags moving in on them and Six Flags all of a sudden at that time needed the money.

 

All VERY smart business decisions. Not great for us theme park nerds, but fantastic for the bottom line.

 

It's a shame. I would have liked to have seen what "Six Flags Worlds of Adventure" would have become ten years down the line.

 

Oh, well...

Edited August 23, 2016 by robbalvey

[coasterbill]

^ I agree with this entirely. We visited in 2001 and were blown away. The thing that really set it apart for us was the quality of the shows on the old Sea World side of the park. They were infinitely better than anything Six Flags was putting on elsewhere and it made for a really well rounded park.

 

I understand it from a business standpoint too, but for awhile that was a really great park and the "3 parks for the price of one" sales pitch made them a strong player against Cedar Point. Their TV ads were actually targeting Cedar Point directly (by name which is a rarity) and showing testimonials about why they were better because they offered "3 parks" with a single admission. Six Flags was being incredibly aggressive, it's really a shame they weren't able to maintain that.

[SharkTums]

^&^^ Yup! SFWoA was a ton of fun! Think how much money they threw into that place and it showed for one or two seasons. Why should people still care and be bummed now though? It's been like 15 years and we all knew this was coming. Might as well have fun with it!

[DirkFunk]

^&^^ Yup! SFWoA was a ton of fun! Think how much money they threw into that place and it showed for one or two seasons. Why should people still care and be bummed now though? It's been like 15 years and we all knew this was coming. Might as well have fun with it!

 

I can see why people would be bummed, but angry is different than bummed. A lot of keyboard warriors out there talked big about trying to move Big Dipper and none of them did a damn thing.

[thrillrider]

Here are a bunch of pictures from my trip there last summer.

http://themeparkreview.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=70615&hilit=Mega+Geauga+lake&start=60

[CP Maverick]

Combining gates was brilliant from a marketing perspective, but it made little sense in an area that generally catered to those who could not afford the trip to Cedar Point. It's almost as if SF saw the 1 million GL attendance and 2 million SWO attendance and assumed they could generate 3 million unique guests from it. They peaked at 2.3 million, even with the "we're better than CP" ads airing on every Cleveland station all summer.

[WolfBobs]

It's almost as if SF saw the 1 million GL attendance and 2 million SWO attendance and assumed they could generate 3 million unique guests from it. .

 

I worked at this park during the SFO-GL years. And I remember back in 2001 this is EXACTLY what the GM told us during a pre-season employee orientation. I remember sitting there, at 17 and thinking "that's not how it works, that's not how any of this works!" (Forgive me for not using the meme) I couldn't understand how they assumed a semi-destination area containing two parks would pull the same attendance as "3 parks in 1." You just took someones 2-3 day vacation and turned it into a 1 day stop. Especially when most of the animals people would visit for left.

 

A few observations of someone who spent everyday of his summer there from 2000-2005. Six Flags biggest mistake was adding so much too quickly. 5 coasters in 2 years was too much. Space those out and you have 10-12 years of good cap ex to keep people coming back. Then buying Sea World was the second nail in the coffin. These parks complimented each other, driving business. Combining them was a big mistake. CF buying the park was the 3rd nail, I wont go as far to say they bought it to close it, cause that's stupid. But they didn't do anything to improve the park on the dry side. Most SF themeing was lazily removed and not much effort was made to cover it up or replace it. Heck, in 2005 you could still read "Bruce Wayne Foundation" On Dominator's station. It never felt that CF really tried.

 

However, being there in 2004 I knew for 2005 a hyper was on the table (blue prints were in the maintenance shop and I know a former co-worker who still has them!) and management chose to go waterpark with the budget given them. Not sure why they decided they needed a new waterpark less then 5 years after opening a new/updated waterpark but they did (SFO expansion had the Hurricane Harbor update, new wave pool, slides, etc.). This park did not need a NEW waterpark. I feel like if they sold off the sea world property, kept the dry side, and expanded/renovated the existing waterpark this park would still be around today. Replacing some of the older slides from the 70's/80's and Hook's Lagoon with new slides and a new water fortress would have been just as successful as the entire WWK expansion. A lot of bad decisions were made from 1999-2007 and most of it was ego driven and not, in my opinion, thought out from a business perspective. But of course, hindsight is 20/20.

[Geauga Dog]

I couldn't understand how they assumed a semi-destination area containing two parks would pull the same attendance as "3 parks in 1." You just took someones 2-3 day vacation and turned it into a 1 day stop. Especially when most of the animals people would visit for left.

 

I somewhat disagree as a combined park there was plenty to do for two days. Six Flags didn't market it that way. I spent a lot of time there during what I term the "magic years" (2000-2003) and once Shouka was brought in and started performing people were coming back. I remember sitting in the stadium with healthy crowds watching the show. It's a shame that Six Flags was not able to get Kshament, the male orca from South America, to breed with Shouka. That would have been a serious win for Six Flags if that happened.

 

Six Flags biggest mistake was adding so much too quickly. 5 coasters in 2 years was too much. Space those out and you have 10-12 years of good cap ex to keep people coming back. Then buying Sea World was the second nail in the coffin. These parks complimented each other, driving business. Combining them was a big mistake. CF buying the park was the 3rd nail, I wont go as far to say they bought it to close it, cause that's stupid. But they didn't do anything to improve the park on the dry side. Most SF themeing was lazily removed and not much effort was made to cover it up or replace it. Heck, in 2005 you could still read "Bruce Wayne Foundation" On Dominator's station. It never felt that CF really tried.

 

I agree with this however I don't blame Six Flags for the huge expansion in 2000. They were going to go head to head with Millennium Force and, to a certain degree, Son of Beast, both huge attractions that were drawing a LOT of attention. How was little ol' Geauga Lake going to compete with that? Playing Monday morning park president, they could have waited a year to "Flag" the park and then all the attention would have been on them.

 

There are plenty who think CF bought it to get rid of it. Did they seriously think they would be able to turn the park around and make it profitable in the short time they owned it? Also take into account the Paramount deal also killed any chance for the park to be saved.

 

However, being there in 2004 I knew for 2005 a hyper was on the table (blue prints were in the maintenance shop and I know a former co-worker who still has them!) and management chose to go waterpark with the budget given them. Not sure why they decided they needed a new waterpark less then 5 years after opening a new/updated waterpark but they did (SFO expansion had the Hurricane Harbor update, new wave pool, slides, etc.). This park did not need a NEW waterpark. I feel like if they sold off the sea world property, kept the dry side, and expanded/renovated the existing waterpark this park would still be around today. Replacing some of the older slides from the 70's/80's and Hook's Lagoon with new slides and a new water fortress would have been just as successful as the entire WWK expansion. A lot of bad decisions were made from 1999-2007 and most of it was ego driven and not, in my opinion, thought out from a business perspective. But of course, hindsight is 20/20.

 

It did suck that Six Flags got the okay from Bainbridge Township for that hyper, with a few stipulations of course, and that would have been awesome on the Wild Life side. When I rode SFOG's Goliath I couldn't help but think that it was SFWoA's hyper. The way it sits above the midway was exactly how it would have been in Ohio.

 

With the Skyscraper and monorail basically out of commission at the time they could have expanded into the former midway area with no problem after Steel Venom and X Flight were gone. They could have just relocated Head Spin elsewhere.

 

I was one of those who boycotted Cedar Fair parks at the time of the closing but my boycott was only until Kinzel was gone. He was being compared to Art Modell when he took the Browns to Baltimore. My anger toward him and Cedar Fair was based on how they handled the closing. They totally disrespected the 119 year history of the park at the time by not saying anything about closing it. I would have been okay with the downsizing of the park, i.e. moving some of the big Six Flags additions to other parks, if it meant the park would still be open today.

[CP Maverick]

I spoke to Spehn on closing day about the downsizing of the park. I never expected it to be cut down to almost nothing.

[jconsolmagno]

It's almost as if SF saw the 1 million GL attendance and 2 million SWO attendance and assumed they could generate 3 million unique guests from it. .

 

I worked at this park during the SFO-GL years. And I remember back in 2001 this is EXACTLY what the GM told us during a pre-season employee orientation. I remember sitting there, at 17 and thinking "that's not how it works, that's not how any of this works!" (Forgive me for not using the meme) I couldn't understand how they assumed a semi-destination area containing two parks would pull the same attendance as "3 parks in 1." You just took someones 2-3 day vacation and turned it into a 1 day stop. Especially when most of the animals people would visit for left.

 

A few observations of someone who spent everyday of his summer there from 2000-2005. Six Flags biggest mistake was adding so much too quickly. 5 coasters in 2 years was too much. Space those out and you have 10-12 years of good cap ex to keep people coming back. Then buying Sea World was the second nail in the coffin. These parks complimented each other, driving business. Combining them was a big mistake. CF buying the park was the 3rd nail, I wont go as far to say they bought it to close it, cause that's stupid. But they didn't do anything to improve the park on the dry side. Most SF themeing was lazily removed and not much effort was made to cover it up or replace it. Heck, in 2005 you could still read "Bruce Wayne Foundation" On Dominator's station. It never felt that CF really tried.

 

However, being there in 2004 I knew for 2005 a hyper was on the table (blue prints were in the maintenance shop and I know a former co-worker who still has them!) and management chose to go waterpark with the budget given them. Not sure why they decided they needed a new waterpark less then 5 years after opening a new/updated waterpark but they did (SFO expansion had the Hurricane Harbor update, new wave pool, slides, etc.). This park did not need a NEW waterpark. I feel like if they sold off the sea world property, kept the dry side, and expanded/renovated the existing waterpark this park would still be around today. Replacing some of the older slides from the 70's/80's and Hook's Lagoon with new slides and a new water fortress would have been just as successful as the entire WWK expansion. A lot of bad decisions were made from 1999-2007 and most of it was ego driven and not, in my opinion, thought out from a business perspective. But of course, hindsight is 20/20.

 

 

Where was that hyper supposed to go? Getting a scan of that blueprint would be amazing.

[DILinator]

Did anybody besides me (and my brother) actually REALLY like the park when it was briefly Six Flags: Worlds of Adventure? I went there with my brother back in 2002, and we both LOVED it! Afterward, we were discussing whether it was possibly better than CP even. Now, I'm not saying it WAS, but the fact that it made us even ask that question surprised me, especially coming from a Six Flags park!

Yes actually. When I said that the later years were my favorite incarnation of the park I actually meant these years as it was the last time I visited the park. When it was one HUGE Six Flags park, I actually thought that, given a few more years developing it, that property could give Cedar Point a run for it's money. But at that time, Six Flags was looking for immediate profits, which wasn't going to happen instantly, it would take a few years, and Cedar Fair wasn't about to let Six Flags come in and steal Cedar Point's thunder.

 

I actually don't blame Cedar Fair for doing what they did. It was the smartest business decision to totally wipe out any potential competition. If I was in charge of Cedar Fair and I was watching Six Flags move in on my territory and had a chance to strike when they were slightly down, I would have done the exact same thing.

 

Had Cedar Fair waited even just a little while longer to buy that park until the economy started turning around and maybe by then Six Flags wouldn't have been interested in selling, who knows what would have happened. But they were quick to react to Six Flags moving in on them and Six Flags all of a sudden at that time needed the money.

 

All VERY smart business decisions. Not great for us theme park nerds, but fantastic for the bottom line.

 

It's a shame. I would have liked to have seen what "Six Flags Worlds of Adventure" would have become ten years down the line.

 

Oh, well...

 

I too, agree 100% here! It's nice to know that I'm not the only one who both loved SF:WoA in its prime, and also feels CF's purchase of the park was motivated purely by elimination of competition. Like yourself, I don't blame them for this tack either, even if as a consumer of goods, it's a bummer to see. Business is cutthroat, and if there's one thing CF has shown over the years, it's that they will be ruthless in building the company, and expanding their brand. And again, it's what any strong company is going to do. It's just a shame that SF was in a spot of weakness due to their frivolous spending across the chain over the years, and their rapid expansion at SF:WoA in particular, and they were willing to sell off to CF, as I too would have loved to the park continue to exist as it was, for years to come. I know it would have become a regular stop for me each year, while visiting CP as well!

[robbalvey]

I can see why people would be bummed, but angry is different than bummed. A lot of keyboard warriors out there talked big about trying to move Big Dipper and none of them did a damn thing.

Oh, they DID do something...and it was ABSOLUTELY F**KING HILARIOUS in the most pathetic way possible! LMAO

 

It still makes me laugh to this day to think there were people insanely stupid enough to think they could have moved an entire roller coaster with some locals and their pick-up trucks! I would have LOVED to see a picture of what would have happened when they loaded an NAD train car into the back of a Toyota Tacoma! LOL

 

www.savethebigdipper.com

[DirkFunk]

I can see why people would be bummed, but angry is different than bummed. A lot of keyboard warriors out there talked big about trying to move Big Dipper and none of them did a damn thing.

Oh, they DID do something...and it was ABSOLUTELY F**KING HILARIOUS in the most pathetic way possible! LMAO

 

It still makes me laugh to this day to think there were people insanely stupid enough to think they could have moved an entire roller coaster with some locals and their pick-up trucks! I would have LOVED to see a picture of what would have happened when they loaded an NAD train car into the back of a Toyota Tacoma! LOL

 

http://www.savethebigdipper.com

 

We were sadly prevented from seeing such a wondrous moment. But at least then it would have been a real effort, even if it flopped dramatically and with many LOLs.

[coasterbill]

Aside from the fact that it was entirely impractical with no real plan or capital to speak of, was Big Dipper really that great? I rode it once and found it to be a nice ride but entirely average and forgettable. If that would have put that into any well established park I think it would underwhelm a ton of people.

[robbalvey]

Aside from the fact that it was entirely impractical with no real plan or capital to speak of, was Big Dipper really that great? I rode it once and found it to be a nice ride but entirely average and forgettable. If that would have put that into any well established park I think it would underwhelm a ton of people.

Your assessment is 100% correct.

[WolfBobs]

I loved the Dipper, it was an airtime machine for me personally. Simple out and back layout, but I loved it. I think most people just love it for the nostalgia and the age. Being a coaster from the 20's and a John Miller. But to me personally, it was my favorite ride at the park. Even in the hey day of SF?CF ownership with 10 coasters.

 

Where was that hyper supposed to go? Getting a scan of that blueprint would be amazing.

 

The CF plans had the hyper on the south side running from approximately Happy Harbor (where thunder falls is now) to approximately the water fortress and back. When the park closed in 2007 a lot of people got a lot of cool things from the offices, many of these friends still work for the industry and CF and that's why they haven't made their way online yet.

[Samuel]

I thought that the Dipper was by far the best ride in the park -- classic, smooth, and fun. Its character felt preserved in the 2000s, despite the park's evaporating charm and integrity during the same period. My eyes popped at the guts Six Flags showed when it essentially declared war on Cedar Point, but while I always tried to have fun days at SFO and SFWoA, I never consistently did. A couple of good coasters and a generally clean Sea World side would be interrupted by a sense of the place being cramped, overpriced, slapped together, littered in ads, and pound-for-pound inferior to Cedar Point in almost every way. Six Flags proved during those years that there's more to a park than plopping down coasters (& SFWoA isn't the only example!).

 

What's more, the surrounding Aurora area didn't have the highways, hotels, and other support infrastructure to buoy the kind of guest traffic that Six Flags was hoping to garner. Whenever the park tried to flex muscle, it exposed a feeble skeletal foundation that not even a great giga coaster could have overcome.

 

MF/SoB/SFWoA/Phantom years (2000-03) made Ohio & Western PA exciting places to be during the coaster wars, but there's no doubt that Geauga Lake & Sea World were totally botched as a result. I had a great time at Sea World & a quaint time at Geauga Lake back in the mid-90's. What seemed like a promising boon era for both places turned into an absolute fizzle.

[jconsolmagno]

I loved the Dipper, it was an airtime machine for me personally. Simple out and back layout, but I loved it. I think most people just love it for the nostalgia and the age. Being a coaster from the 20's and a John Miller. But to me personally, it was my favorite ride at the park. Even in the hey day of SF?CF ownership with 10 coasters.

 

Where was that hyper supposed to go? Getting a scan of that blueprint would be amazing.

 

The CF plans had the hyper on the south side running from approximately Happy Harbor (where thunder falls is now) to approximately the water fortress and back. When the park closed in 2007 a lot of people got a lot of cool things from the offices, many of these friends still work for the industry and CF and that's why they haven't made their way online yet.

 

Thanks so much for the info. I know a lot of rumors flew about a hyper from SF going in around 2002/03. It seems this wouldn't be the same coastersince it would cut into the Wild Life side, that I'm sure they would want to preserve. Do you know if there was one really planned from the Six Flags era?

[Geauga Dog]

Thanks so much for the info. I know a lot of rumors flew about a hyper from SF going in around 2002/03. It seems this wouldn't be the same coastersince it would cut into the Wild Life side, that I'm sure they would want to preserve. Do you know if there was one really planned from the Six Flags era?

 

There was one planned for sometime around the 2004/2005 season. From my recollection Six Flags got a height variance cleared to go 210 feet on the Wild Life side as part of a deal with Bainbridge Township (the deal meant that certain sections were off limits for new rides, which would be closest to the nearby residents). They wanted to add more attractions on that side (hence the rides in Happy Harbor plus Starfish from Discovery Kingdom and Thriller Bees from Kentucky Kingdom being located there). The original site for the hyper would have been where Woods Arena used to be, which currently is the hill behind the Tidal Wave Bay wave pool in WWK. It would have spanned across Squires Road and run along side the parking lot. There were a lot of people against that idea so the hyper was then relocated to go behind the waterski stadium (then home of the Batman Water Thrill Spectacular show) and head towards Happy Harbor.

[DILinator]

was Big Dipper really that great? I rode it once and found it to be a nice ride but entirely average and forgettable. If that would have put that into any well established park I think it would underwhelm a ton of people.

 

I loved the coaster, as it was an absolute airtime machine (even dangerously so in some places), thanks especially to the lack of restrictive restraints! It would be at the tail end of my Top 10 wood coasters - though to be fair, I haven't ridden a ton of good wooden coasters yet, so that ranking is deceptive. I'm a big fan of Blue Streak, and I prefer Big Dipper. But as with most wood coasters, opinions vary wildly. It is definitely missed, but what's done is done, so no point in crying over "spilled milk"!

[Philrad71]

^ Only having the buzz bars certainly made it a fun ride - I agree. I rode it the last year that the park was open...in the front seat and I hardly stayed in my seat during the ride.

 

Was it as good as Phoenix? Hell no, but it was a hilariously fun ride in the front seat. Out of what was left at the park during that last season, my ride on Teh Big Dipper was actually my most memorable.

 

Although I have to admit that seeing Villain bulldozed made me smile - that thing was God-awful.

[djcoastermark]

Just a fun fact. Big Dipper was rebuilt in 1980 and at that time the double down was removed. It was flattened out. I rode it as a kid with the double down and it really did give ejector air on both dips. The first time I rode it after the rebuild you really did notice it was gone. After time though most people forgot about it. Here's a couple of pics before and after. Not my pics tho.

before

after

[thrillrider]

You can own a piece of Geauga lake history here...