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Kings Dominion (KD) Discussion Thread

p. 776: Rapterra wing coaster announced for 2025!

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It would be useless to do this on a TOGO, yes. And since it is a TOGO, the transition variability would vary. But for the most part, the closer you are to the track, the less exaggerated the transitions are, although I never implied that it was that simple. For example, if you put your elbow on the table and bend it at a 90 degree angle, then move your forearm left and right, obviously your hand travels a larger distance than a point closer to your elbow.

 

Even though BGW is only so far away, I think an airtime machine would be a nice fit for KD actually. They lack anything in that catagory because I305 obviously doesn't specialize in airtime. After all, (even though the two are pretty different, and both parks are CF parks) KI and CP both have hypers

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Sitdown TOGO, possibly the inspiration for Rougerou:

LoL ... Check out the forwards-facing cam at the end -- fast and smooth. TOGO's designs have become archaic but the construction quality still holds up. But no, not at all likely.

 

A great replacement for Shockwave would be a small standup of comfortable design. Shockwave is the ideal length for a standup, and it is something different. I don't know who would make it, the existing B&M restraints are horrible and all of theirs have been too ambitious; most are too long. Frankly, most of Shockwave got it right.

 

The Screamscape thing sounds like fantasy. But who knows, there is a lot of parking lot. I would like to see addition rather than replacement, but I really think replacement would be better for the park. Quality at the present quantity. It just looks better. And the need is coming. At 3 years a coaster, it will still take 'til 2022 to replace 3 aging beasts of dubious comfort. If you think they're bad now ...

 

Even though BGW is only so far away, I think an airtime machine would be a nice fit for KD actually. They lack anything in that catagory because I305 obviously doesn't specialize in airtime. After all, (even though the two are pretty different, and both parks are CF parks) KI and CP both have hypers

 

They don't have the weird floaty this-shouldn't-be-this-scary airtime of Apollo but in every other respect I305 and KD crushes BGW on total airtime. I agree that something like that would be a good addition, though.

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I don't see Shockwave being removed for a while. One, because it just recently got a re-paint, two, because it's still running strong, three, you can't fit anything in the space but a wild mouse (which KD already has), and four, it took nearly 15 years after King Kobra's closing for Skyrider to close, so Cedar Fair is not on a TOGO closing rampage.

 

I honestly think that the ride is not as bad as people claim it is. I've said "ow!" more on Alpengeist than this.

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To be fair, I find Anaconda much more rough than Shockwave. However, I definitely see Shockwave on the chopping block first.

 

Also, you mention nothing will fit there besides a wild mouse? You couldn't be more wrong. KD could fit a decent size coaster there, especially if they went towards the former are XLC's turnaround inhabited or the woods located next to Shockwave. Take a look at how Cedar Fair fit Talon into Dorney Park.

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I don't see Shockwave being removed for a while. One, because it just recently got a re-paint, two, because it's still running strong, three, you can't fit anything in the space but a wild mouse (which KD already has), and four, it took nearly 15 years after King Kobra's closing for Skyrider to close, so Cedar Fair is not on a TOGO closing rampage.

 

IIRC Kings Island repainted King Cobra just a few years before it was removed so just because they repainted Shock Wave doesn't mean they will keep it. The space doesn't need to be used for another coaster - it would be a nice spot for a Giant Frisbee or a couple medium sized flats.

 

In the end I just hope they don't start ripping down a large swath of trees. The lush canopies are one of the things I like about Kings Dominion.

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I never have and never will understand why people think Alpengeist is rough. Also I'd much rather have the park keep Anaconda over Shockwave. The last car, front row provides a pretty decent ride, and the only part I actually have to brace myself is the middle of the butterfly section after the MCBR. It actually ran pretty well on the last day of the season last year I thought. Shockwave is a different story. First time I rode it, it left a decent size bruise on my hip. If Shockwave really is the next coaster go, I won't miss it.

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Generally, Cedar Fair installs one or two large coasters and one or two smaller coasters at its parks (no more than three total per year). Say what you want, but it's pretty much beyond debate now that Cedar Point is getting the largest coaster in 2016 with "Valravn", the B&M Dive Machine. This leaves Kings Dominion, Worlds of Fun, Michigan's Adventure, Valleyfair, and Canada's Wonderland due for a coaster with little to no hints given yet. In terms of attendance, Canada's Wonderland takes the number one spot among these parks in terms of potential returns, but I think that CF will wait until 2017 to make Canada's Wonderland's addition the crown jewel of its 2017 budget, since Canada's Wonderland has received both Leviathan and Wonder Mountain's Guardian in the current decade. Although a new coaster would be nice at Worlds of Fun or Michigan's Adventure, CF just doesn't see the foot traffic and therefore potential quick returns from these parks. I would anticipate a gigacoaster or another large B&M to hit at least one of these parks by 2019 or 2020.

This leaves two parks open to consideration:

1. Valleyfair

Valleyfair's last new coaster was the relocated Cosmic Coaster (formerly Dragon Coaster at Dorney Park) in 2011, with its most recent coaster originating at the park being the GCI woodie Renegade in 2007. This is a long time, especially for coaster-centric chains like Six Flags and Cedar Fair. Cedar Fair sees plenty of potential in Valleyfair, so I wouldn't be surprised to see a B&M gigacoaster at the park in 2016 - except for one small problem: The FAA has placed a strict, no-ride-over-275 feet policy on Valleyfair due to the adjoining airport. The park already has a fantastic Morgan hypercoaster, a GCI woodie, a prototype Arrow hybrid coaster, an Arrow looper, a wild mouse, an Intamin Impulse, a kiddie coaster, and a classic wooden coaster - a solid lineup for a park of its size and foot traffic.

So the real question is, what DOES Valleyfair need?

Due to size, Valleyfair would have to remove a coaster to build a new one - unless you're talking a Triotech, which Cedar Fair is currently rolling out to a number of its parks over a few years in a manner similar to WindSeeker. So I'd bet on a Triotech.

2. Kings Dominion

Kings Dominion's last new coaster was Intimidator 305 in 2010. Although Cedar Fair doesn't see as much potential in KD as in other parks, its established base is one of the best at any CF park, rivaling Carowinds, despite the park's rural location. Because of this, KD is long overdue for a new coaster. Kings Dominion has to remove something to build something, and the Hurler, Grizzly, and Anaconda ain't goin' nowhere with their recent refurbishments. This leaves the Shockwave, a TOGO standup coaster which was last repainted in 2011 as the only coaster which might get removed. Unfortunately, this coaster is very compact, meaning that to build something new and large, Kings Dominion would have to remove trees in Old Virginia (killing the vibe) and/or the entire freakin' Blue Ridge Tollway antique cars ride to do so. Worth it? IDK. Could it happen? Yes. Will it? IDK.

So the real question is, what DOES Kings Dominion need?

Nothing the park builds will eclipse I305 as the premier ride, so there'd be no point in demolishing an entire section of the park in order to build a B&M hyper. On the other hand, KD doesn't have a bona fide chain-lift invert, although a wing coaster, swooping and soaring through the trees of Old Virginia would be pretty nice. So I'd bet on a B&M invert or a wing coaster (redundant, I know).

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Michigan's Adventure is actually a top contender for a 2016 coaster, as far as Cedar Fair goes. They've already announced there will be a large capital investment made there, and rumors have been flying around that it's gonna be a hyper GTX. It's also their 60th anniversary next year, and MIA has a history of adding major new rides on anniversary years.

 

As for a third one, I'd put my money on ValleyFair over Kings Dominion, given the statements Cedar Fair made about focusing on that park.

 

That's not to say there won't be a fourth one, But I'm predicting 2017 is gonna be KD's year.

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Michigan's Adventure is actually a top contender for a 2016 coaster, as far as Cedar Fair goes. They've already announced there will be a large capital investment made there, and rumors have been flying around that it's gonna be a hyper GTX. It's also their 60th anniversary next year, and MIA has a history of adding major new rides on anniversary years.

 

As for a third one, I'd put my money on ValleyFair over Kings Dominion, given the statements Cedar Fair made about focusing on that park.

 

That's not to say there won't be a fourth one, But I'm predicting 2017 is gonna be KD's year.

A hyper GT-X isn't a very large investment - it's around the same price tag as a Windseeker ($6-8M range), so that would be the third coaster.

For a second coaster, I'd still put money on Kings Dominion over Valleyfair, with 2017 being VF's year.

2016: Cedar Point (Dive Coaster), Kings Dominion (unidentified mid-sized B&M), Michigan's Adventure (Hyper GT-X)

2017: Canada's Wonderland (unidentified mid-sized B&M), Valleyfair (unidentified large B&M), Worlds of Fun (unidentified mid-sized B&M)

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The main issue I have with this is Cedar Fair has invested in one major B&M each of the last four years, and only five new coasters since 2011 (the last being Gold Striker). I don't see the them suddenly jumping from one coaster a year to three, two times in a row. In my mind...

2016: Cedar Point B&M coaster, other additional coaster (Canada's Wonderland/Mich. Adv. more likely, or VF/KD, less likely)

2017: Canada's Wonderland coaster (if not in 2016), other additional coaster (Kings Dominion/Valleyfair).

 

Obviously this is still well into the future and we'll know so much more closer to announcement time, but honestly nothing at this point in time screams to me that Kings Dominion is getting a new coaster in 2016. Yeah, it's been a little while (other parks have it far worse), but we've had no real info to base it off, like the "amazing" secret CO has held for their new coaster.

 

Edit: okay definitely Canada's Wonderland for 2016. I just checked up on that thread... it's really not very discrete.

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Edit: okay definitely Canada's Wonderland for 2016. I just checked up on that thread... it's really not very discrete.

In that case, I have one message for Cedar Fair, on behalf of all Kings Dominion faithful and tourists alike...

P.S. I wonder how KD will try to convince people that its minor improvements and/or small flat rides are some large investment, like they have for the PAST FIVE YEARS!

2011. Minor improvements

2012. Flat rides

2013. Flat rides

2014. Minor improvements

2015. Water rides

2016. Minor improvements

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^Not to mention perhaps the best coaster on the planet. I get it, even that experience you can get used to, but I have a feeling I305 was meant to satisfy us for a while before a new attraction. Be patient. Something is coming within the next 2-3 years, I just don't think this is the year anymore; no confirmed markers or surveying. If that is spotted, then I will change my opinion. If they do get a coaster, I must say that KD needs another B&M in my opinion. If not, at least something comfortable and smooth

 

By the way (I haven't been following this) what makes everyone so certain that CP is getting a coaster this year?

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^Just look at one of the webcams on Cedar Point's website. They removed one of their Antique cars and relocated some family rides, not to mentioned demolishing a major theater. They left the area fenced in (almost 10 acres) and g's a dirt field at the moment. I'd expect footers in the next month or so.

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^All that, a trademark has been filed, and the plans for the coaster allegedly leaked to the press.

 

Even if a B&M at KD in the next couple of years is the best guess, given the CF trend of late, I actually kind of hope the park gets something a little bit more unique. Give CGA the hyper, it needs it more.

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I know the last coaster installation was in 2010 (the best coaster in the world, in my opinion), however KD received 3 coasters in FIVE years prior to that. 2006: Backlot Stunt Coaster 2008: Dominator 2010: Intimidator 305 - which means they've received three coasters in the past decade, one of those being a GIGA. Any amusement park in the world would LOVE to have that.

 

Yes, Backlot Stunt Coaster was under Paramount ownership, Dominator was relocated, but Intimidator 305 cost 25 million (which cost more than Behemoth, Diamondback, and Intimidator Carowinds). However, as I mentioned a few pages back, Kings Dominion has been receiving more slightly more money for these off years than other parks AND has tremendously improved the park's atmosphere and aesthetic appeal compared to what it was prior to 2010.

 

Finally, remember Kings Dominion hasn't even opened their 2015 attractions yet, that happens this weekend. They have been rapidly trying to finish a complete revamp and overhaul the entire water park while putting the finishing touches on two new attractions - 2016/2017 doesn't need to start for quite a while. Intimidator 305 (obviously the park's biggest coaster and one of Intamin's biggest tests (with the new lift structure)) didn't even touch a blade of grass until Monday June 1, 2009... so KD's next coaster could likely not start construction until late July/August given the size it'll probably be. Remember, GateKeeper didn't start construction until late summer in northern Ohio. KD is in Virginia, not Ohio or Canada so the winters are much milder for construction and concrete curing.

 

Do I think KD will get a coaster in 2016? I'm not holding my breath as I heard they were denied one for the 40th Celebration, but that means they are on the list for 2016 or 2017. If 2016 isn't a coaster, expect a package to be rolling out to parks like the Windseekers did, I could see KI and KD getting the same thing next season if a coaster isn't coming KD's way.

 

In the meantime, calm down, enjoy how nice of a place the park is now, take a ride on one of the world's best roller coasters, and take a ride on Shockwave just in case it does get removed.

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Ugh if only Cedar Fair would venture away from B&M more often, they'd be able to spread more love across more of their parks in the same season. You could almost install THREE RMC rides for the price of one ride like Gatekeeper, Banshee, Leviathan, or Fury.

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P.S. I wonder how KD will try to convince people that its minor improvements and/or small flat rides are some large investment, like they have for the PAST FIVE YEARS!

2011. Minor improvements

2012. Flat rides

2013. Flat rides

2014. Minor improvements

2015. Water rides

2016. Minor improvements

 

It's becoming my view that ALL of that is part of the I305 plan. Surely they knew then that the 40th was coming up. They just chose to put in the coaster first rather than do minor improvements for 5 years first, or do the coaster someplace in the middle.

 

It makes sense. Add a coaster every few years for 35 years. Take a break, then start replacing one every few years -- for up to another 35 years before the next break! Give people a chance to start speculating on replacement, then give them at least another couple years to ride the old ones so they don't complain about losing them before their time. KD reached the enviable position of being full of coasters, where at least for a while they could focus on other details.

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With Cedar Fair on their huge B&M snooze fest kick, why is everyone so eager for KD to get a new coaster? Wait a little while for them to start building good rides again.

You act like Banshee and Fury 325 are a snoozefest. Ride them first before you bash them

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^I would take I305 over Fury and Volcano over Banshee. Pretty much anything from B&M would be a step down from what they already have. To me a wing coaster would not add anything to their current lineup, I don't really go by the "want a new ride just for the sake of being new" mentality.

 

Note that I'm saying this because to me KD already has a spectacularly solid line up. They can afford to wait until CF hops on the RMC train. If it's Dorney we're talking about, sure, bring on the wing coasters.

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