Six Flags Great America (SFGAm) Discussion Thread

[JonnyRCT3]

Again, nobody has said anything about the supports. The ride has unusual track, which is why people debate its nature.

 

Exactly.

[aCoasterStory]

Again, nobody has said anything about the supports. The ride has unusual track, which is why people debate its nature.

 

BUT, if the supports for the lift were the same as in the original rendering and if the track was painted the same as Outlaw Run, nobody would likely be making a big fuss about it...even those changes are really aesthetic only.

[GoBears]

Beautiful morning and the workers are hard at work as usual.

 

[Mrlittle]

I know this question has come up before but I am not sure if its been answered or not. Will Goliath have seat belts? I remember reading once that they stated they do not want seat belts. Anyone know?

[GoBears]

I know this question has come up before but I am not sure if its been answered or not. Will Goliath have seat belts? I remember reading once that they stated they do not want seat belts. Anyone know?

 

The park has said that to their knowledge the trains won't have any seat belts. I haven't heard anything recently though. Speaking of the trains, I wonder when they will arrive. I'm guessing next month.

[Password121]

Again, nobody has said anything about the supports. The ride has unusual track, which is why people debate its nature.

 

BUT, if the supports for the lift were the same as in the original rendering and if the track was painted the same as Outlaw Run, nobody would likely be making a big fuss about it...even those changes are really aesthetic only.

 

Exactly. I think we've completely decided the supports don't make a difference. Here's my take on the track.

Just like Outlaw Run, the track is still sitting on wood beams. Yes, the color makes it look steel, like NTaG or Iron Rattler, but even on SFOT's website they describe NTaG as hybrid, then go on to all it a wooden record breaking coaster. You could paint any wooden coasters track orange/red and there would probably be some questioning. Now, what I need to know before I make my final opinion:

Does the coaster NEED the wood beams below the steel on the track to function, or is it simply there to classify as wooden? I.E. If I remove those (five?) beams, does the coaster function, or fall apart? I think that is the difference in whether it is wood or steel.

[rcjp]

^I think they need to be there. It would be ridiculous if they didn't. You can also see that the size of the steel part on these rides has nothing to do with the I-box ones, so they must be essential.

[CPmillenia94]

The steel takes the majority of the stress though and the wood just sort of absorbs shock

[Password121]

Is the wood essential in supporting the steel, like a traditions wooden coaster, or could the steel alone, is what I'm asking.

[WildStangAlex]

The wood is essential and necessary on Goliath.

[glouthan]

I know this question has come up before but I am not sure if its been answered or not. Will Goliath have seat belts? I remember reading once that they stated they do not want seat belts. Anyone know?

 

I was one of the people that went on the Goliath tour in January. That question was brought up during the tour and Brandon (from SF) said he doesn't think the trains will, however, he said he wouldn't be surprised if they ended up having them.

[GoBears]

I know this question has come up before but I am not sure if its been answered or not. Will Goliath have seat belts? I remember reading once that they stated they do not want seat belts. Anyone know?

 

I was one of the people that went on the Goliath tour in January. That question was brought up during the tour and Brandon (from SF) said he doesn't think the trains will, however, he said he wouldn't be surprised if they ended up having them.

 

Since Outlaw Run had them added, it wouldn't surprise me to see them on Goliath for extra safety.

[Dr. M]

Is the wood essential in supporting the steel, like a traditions wooden coaster, or could the steel alone, is what I'm asking.

 

 

This is the whole question, and I'm glad I'm finally not the only person asking it. The steel is attached to the wood, so of course the steel "needs" the wood to be there. But ask yourself this. Common sense says inversions are only possible with steel track. It's the steel that makes topper track able to perform inversions. Therefor...

 

But I seriously don't want to get into this again. Most people don't care if it's wooden or steel. Seems obvious to me it's much more like steel than wood, I mean just look at the layout. Seems obvious most people disagree, which is fine. End of story.

[Blue Turbo]

Is the wood essential in supporting the steel, like a traditions wooden coaster, or could the steel alone, is what I'm asking.

This is the whole question, and I'm glad I'm finally not the only person asking it. The steel is attached to the wood, so of course the steel "needs" the wood to be there. But ask yourself this. Common sense says inversions are only possible with steel track. It's the steel that makes topper track able to perform inversions. Therefor...

Hades 360 only uses a larger running plate so it is not the steel that allows inversions, plus they still have to be able to get the wood to twist enough to allow for the inversion.

[Dr. M]

^Could you perform inversions with traditional coaster track? No? Of course it's the steel that allows for inversions. Did you happen to notice what SOB's loop looked like?

[Blue Turbo]

^I understand you point about SOB, but now with new techniques they are able to produce inversions with wooden tracks. In Hades 360, the steel is just for the trains to ride on, they added it after they had already shaped the wood to make the inversion.

Picture from New Plus Notes

[rcjp]

Is the wood essential in supporting the steel, like a traditions wooden coaster, or could the steel alone, is what I'm asking.

This is the whole question, and I'm glad I'm finally not the only person asking it. The steel is attached to the wood, so of course the steel "needs" the wood to be there. But ask yourself this. Common sense says inversions are only possible with steel track. It's the steel that makes topper track able to perform inversions. Therefor...

Hades 360 only uses a larger running plate so it is not the steel that allows inversions, plus they still have to be able to get the wood to twist enough to allow for the inversion.

Are inversions the elements that demand the most twisting from the track? There are many traditional wooden rides with very twisty bits, which sometimes probably twist the wood more than many inversions.

[Password121]

^Could you perform inversions with traditional coaster track? No? Of course it's the steel that allows for inversions. Did you happen to notice what SOB's loop looked like?

 

Waht I'm saying is this: if you were to remove the wood stacks below the steel on either Outlaw Run or Goliath, would the steel itself be enough to support the coaster and the stress of the train, or does the wood play a large enough role in the structure that it is necessary? The steal used on these coasters is obviously different that that used in SOB's loop, and seems thinner. Yes, it is much larger than the thin strip used on traditional wooden coasters, but is it enough to completely support the coaster, meaning it is a steal coaster track that has a few layers of wood below it, or a wooden coaster with thicker steal?

[rcjp]

^No, it's not enough, the wood is crucial. If it weren't like that then the I-box track wouldn't need to be so large.

Here the difference is clear: the layers of wood do what the bottom part of the I-box does, therefore being needed.

[Password121]

^Awesome pic- thanks. That clears it up, I think Goliath and Outlaw Run are wooden coasters, based on that. I don't see how some are saying Goliath can't be wooden because it has a dive loop and steel lift supports, yet are saying Outlaw Run is a woodie with barrel rolls and the Voyage is with 100% steel supports.

[Dr. M]

^Awesome pic- thanks. That clears it up, I think Goliath and Outlaw Run are wooden coasters, based on that. I don't see how some are saying Goliath can't be wooden because it has a dive loop and steel lift supports, yet are saying Outlaw Run is a woodie with barrel rolls and the Voyage is with 100% steel supports.

 

Why am I responding to this? Because I'm stupid, that's why.

 

First off, nobody is saying the lift structure has anything to do with what this coaster should be classified as. Nobody. Nobody. Please, for the love of god, could everybody get that thought out of their brains. You are arguing against somebody who doesn't exist. Yes, the lift structure sparked the discussion, but only because some people, myself included, were disappointed that it wasn't going to be more traditional-looking. NOT because it's suddenly a steel coaster because of the supports. My god, PLEASE could nobody say this again. The supports have nothing to do with it. The track is the issue.

 

Second off, the only difference between Goliath and Outlaw Run is that Outlaw Run has steel wheels. This has long been one of the differences between steel coasters (polyurethane wheels) and wooden (steel wheels). Yes, this line has been blurred before. No, never in conjunction with topper track.

 

Third off, I'm getting really tired of repeating myself.

 

Fourth off, there's still a question here that hasn't been answered. That picture beautifully illustrates the difference between Ibox and topper track. But as you can see, the actual running surface looks, and is shaped, exactly the same. Why would they ride any different? What is the point of topper track exactly? Does it "shake" more? Why is that desirable? The track on wooden coasters has a certain feel basically due to its "imperfections". Even the track on El Toro has warped over time, giving it a more distinctly "wooden" feel. Clearly you'll never have that here, since that big steel beam isn't going anywhere. That's part of the point of it. Sooooo... why not just use ibox track?

 

^I understand you point about SOB, but now with new techniques they are able to produce inversions with wooden tracks. In Hades 360, the steel is just for the trains to ride on, they added it after they had already shaped the wood to make the inversion.

 

Ok, but then why did they widen the running plate? If it's to help strengthen the track and endure the stress of the trains, then it is the steel making the inversion possible, isn't it? It isn't just the wood, or else they could have used 100% traditional track. And it isn't completely traditional, you can see on the POVs where one type of track ends and the other begins. I don't believe we've ever seen an inversion with 100% traditional track. Which means my original point would still stand. With RMC, you're talking coasters that invert, because of the steel involved. And are smoother, and will stay smooth forever, because of the steel involved. *cough* steel coaster *cough*

[ZeroGravity55]

^ No the Timberliners made the inversion possible. They had to use a thinner layers of wood to twist the wooden track to make the inversion happen. Since they had to use thinner layers of wood, and they were going upside down, they decided to go with the thicker steel to ensure everything was very strong and safe. It was more of a precaution than a necessity.

[_koppen]

I don't see how some are saying Goliath can't be wooden because it has a dive loop and steel lift supports, yet are saying Outlaw Run is a woodie

 

They are saying that because they are following what Alan Schilke said, that he consider the steel wheels to be what makes it a wooden coaster.

[gerstlaueringvar]

Steel is more expensive than wood, that's why they use topper track instead of I-Beam track. That's my guess.

[Lightning9SX]

Since Outlaw Run had them added, it wouldn't surprise me to see them on Goliath for extra safety.

 

They added belts on Outlaw Run? Please tell me that's not true.