Article: Coaster Wars II: Magic Mountain vs. Cedar Point

[browntggrr]

http://travel.latimes.com/daily-deal-blog/?p=1611

[Jew]

I think Cedar Point should be disqualified because of their rain policy.

[browntggrr]

So the qualifications should be if the coasters operate or not?

 

If so SFMM will never come close to the "record".

 

[geaugalakeinexile]

Having more does not mean better.

CP has none of my favorites in any class.

Others will disagree, but I find CP has only 3 coasters that I want to ride.

SFMM has 5, so , for me, SFMM wins.

Titles don't mean a thing. I have yet to go to a park that I did not enjoy.

( I do my homework and go to parks that I have an interest in )

So it's all good.

If SFMM wants to claim the "Title" , fine.

If CP claims the "Title" , fine.

[ginzo]

Neither park deserves the crown. Cedar Point might have a slightly better coaster line up, but Magic Mountain gets many points for having the cojones to remove old crappy coasters. Cedar Point needs to either remove or fix Mean Streak, neither of which are going to happen any time soon. At least Magic Mountain had the vision to tear out Psyclone.

 

Also, neither park has a high quality woodie, so that also makes them lose a lot of points. When you're creeping up on 20 coasters there's just no excuse for not making a really nice woodie a part of your line up.

[DBJ]

I prefer variety of the experience over the actual coaster count. Both parks currently do fall short in a couple of key areas.

 

Also, coaster counts mean very little when parks include coasters for little kids.

[Guy T. Koepp]

I refrain from making any judgement as I have not been to CP. I will get there this year. However, I do agree with the world class woodie comment. Colosus used to be great. It's still fun, but not great. Magic Mountain needs a really good fun wooden coaster. I would love to see a nice family GCI woodie up near the Rapids Camp area. Having just ridden Kentucky Rumbler this Christmas Eve, and it easily jumping into my top 4 wood. I believe it would make an excellent addition to the park.

 

Then a few years down the road after they probably slap in a Big Spin and Dark Knight clone, I would love to see it get an El Toro west!

 

If there is a God! Please let Magic Mountain get an El Toro west!

[dammie16@vt.edu]

/off topic/

 

I love mean streak and I never understand what the problem people have with it, I have sat in the back and it is rough, but maybe it s just I don't remember something that make people hate it. (It has lots of trim brakes?)

 

/on topic/

 

I have never been to SFMM but really want to go in the future, I will always take quality over quantity but I loved all of CP's coasters and MF is by far the best engineered coaster I have ever rode on.

[DenDen]

Having visited both parks, neither of them deserve the title for the moment.

 

CP's rain policy sucks, and if they don't create solutions to this problem, (which there are solutions,) it's just going to get this massive rep of "pay $60 to stand around and do nothing". Coaster enthusiasts are about 5 years ahead of the GP. They've already ticked us off, the GP won't be that far behind. In a place where rain is imminent almost every day, they REALLY need to do something.

 

Magic Mountain may pull ahead on this one. (I never thought I'd say that!) On the tail end of all these massive improvements, and once all the rides are open again, they can really pull it off, regardless of how many coasters they have. (cue music: Tony Tone Toni:"It Never Rains In Southern California")

 

And really, it's all about the full experience of a park. To me, the coaster capitol is any park that has a good variety, nice atmosphere, and all the rides are open! Most mid-sized parks beat these 2 behemoths, hands down!

 

"All that other stuff is there for when you're not waiting in line for the roller coaster..." Ron Tumor

[hemmy]

Funny how SFMM is such a hated park just 2 years ago...

 

The rain policy at Cedar Point is dumb, but they have better rides

 

In my opinion:

 

Maverick> all

MF >>>> Goliath

TTD>>>>>> Superman

Raptor>>>>>>>> Batman

Gemini>=Colossus(not really comparable, but both are racers)

Riddler>>>>Mantis

Tatsu>>>..........

Mean Streak <<<<<< EVERYTHING

Ninja>>Iron Dragon(underrated IMO)

Corkscrew>Revolution(not saying much)

X or X2 is unique although it is really rough(hopefully new trains help a lot)

Viper is bleh

Wicked Twister = Deja Vu

 

I've ridden tons of B&M looping coasters, even good ones like Kumba really don't do that much for me, rather stale.

 

The title "Roller coaster capital of the world" has NOTHING to do with whether or not it is your favorite park. By definition only, CP gets the title

[Carnage]

Having more does not mean better.

 

Case in point this part of the article:

 

Magic Mountain will actually pull into a tie for second place when Canada’s Wonderland adds Behemoth this summer. Somehow that doesn’t have the same ring to it: Roller coaster capital co-runner-up of the world.

 

Sure, by the summer they'll have the same number. But when you take a closer look at the details involved it's not even close.

[montezooma]

I have the sollution...

 

Cedar Point "The Coater Capital of Ohio"

 

Magic Mountain "The Coaster Capital of California"

 

Canada's Wonderland "The Coaster Capital of Canada"

 

or how about this...

 

Cedar Point "The most coasters in the World"

 

Magic Mountain "The Best Coasters in the World"

[RaptorBoyASU]

^^That's because you're on this site.

 

Yes, the rain policy is stupid, but I would take a day at CP over a day at SFMM any time. Part of that is probably bias since I grew up close to there. But I'm a part enthusiast more than a coaster enthusiast. And for me, CP has more to offer than SFMM.

 

The setting: The mountains around SFMM are beautiful, but those hills are a bitch to walk. What SFMM gains with the mountains, CP gains from Lake Erie and Sandusky Bay.

 

The coasters: Personally, I like CP's collection a bit more. SFMM's are way more intense, but that's not a positive for me since I always end up with the Magic Mountain headache by mid-afternoon. Tatsu, X, Goliath, Riddler, Batman, Deja Vu < Maverick, TTD, Millennium Force, Raptor, Magnum, Gemini in my opinion. And I don't think I'm the only one that feels that way considering Mitch's poll shows 5 of CP's coasters in the top 50 to SFMM's 1 (Tatsu).

 

The flats: CP totally trumps SFMM in this department. Troika, Cedar Downs, Chaos, Skyhawk, Maxair, Super Himalaya, Antique Cars, Cadillac Cars, Calypso, Matterhorn, Monster, Wave Swinger, Dodgem, Giant Wheel, Paddlewheel Excursions

 

The shows: CP yet again

 

Operations: There used to be a clear winner, but I feel that gap is closing quick.

 

Food: SFMM. Even though SFMM's stands don't have stellar food, most of them are better than the crap at CP

 

Ok, so I got off topic. But even if we went with just the coasters. I would still call CP the coaster capital. SFMM's worst coasters are better than CP's worst. But CP's best are far better than SFMM's best IMHO.

[robbalvey]

Maverick> all

MF >>>> Goliath

TTD>>>>>> Superman

Raptor>>>>>>>> Batman

Gemini>=Colossus(not really comparable, but both are racers)

Riddler>>>>Mantis

Tatsu>>>..........

Mean Streak <<<<<< EVERYTHING

Ninja>>Iron Dragon(underrated IMO)

Corkscrew>Revolution(not saying much)

X or X2 is unique although it is really rough(hopefully new trains help a lot)

Viper is bleh

Wicked Twister = Deja Vu

I personally think trying to do a one to one comparison of the coasters in both parks just doesn't work.

 

Each park has such a different line up of rides that you end up having to grasp at straws and do something completely dumb like compare Dragster to Superman, Wicked Twister to Deja Vu?!?! Does that EVEN make sense to anyone?!!?

 

IMO the only coasters you can draw a comparison to are:

Batman/Raptor

Mantis/Riddler

Ninja/Iron Dragon

 

And *maybe* Goliath/Millennium Force

 

Everything else is so different either by different manufacturers, different genres, etc, that it's just not comparable without being ridiculous.

 

On a personal note, I prefer CP's coaster lineup to SFMM's....but not by much.

 

--Robb

[hemmy]

Yes, it is easy to make a comparison

 

Goliath/MF/Magnum are rides of similar style

WT and Deja Vu are both shuttle coasters despite different courses

Dragster and Superman are both launch coasters that do essentially nothing.

 

Makes perfect sense to me.

[robbalvey]

^ Maybe to you and I would *maybe* give you TDD and Superman, but it makes ZERO sense to me to compare Deja Vu and Wicked Twister. That's completely stupid and idiotic, IMO. But hey, if you think it's ok, compare all you want!

 

If you are going to continue pointless comparisons, I personally would compare SFMM's parking lot trams to Mean Streak, though.

 

--Robb "And I personally think that SFMM's Turkey Legs are better than Wildcat." Alvey

[SharkTums]

^^It makes sense to you, but definitely not the GP, and even I have issues with some of your comparisons!

 

I mean how on Earth is it fair to compare rides that were built more than seven years apart!? In the coaster world that's an eternity!!!

 

Oh, and Maverick is not better than EVERYTHING that's just an opinion. Your whole list is just an opinion.

[VivaLaVibora]

Since, we are just talking about coasters:

 

Blue Streak > Colosuss (Not by a long shot though)

Gemini >>

Corkscrew > Viper

Magnum = bad

Mean Streak = garbage

Wildcat = okay

Disaster Transport = boring

Maverick > Superman

Wicked Twister >

Top Thrill Draster >>>

______________________

 

Riddler's Revenge >Mantis

Batman the Ride > Raptor

Scream >

Gold Rusher >>> Cedar Creek Mine Train

 

Tastu >> (I never been on Tatsu, but it must be at least as good as Superman.)

X >>>

Ninja >>> Iron Dragon

Deja Vu >>>>

Goliath = Millenium Force (I don't care for either.)

Revolution = ??? (Never been on it)

 

I like Magic Mountain better in both departments. I have 8 great rides at Magic Mountain, and 8 at Cedar Point. The whole thing is that I have ridden all the stuff I want to ride at Cedar Point. I haven't ridden Tatsu, or Revolution at Magic Mountain. I would imagine that it would be definitely 9 rides, but Revolution is said to be junky so I would say Magic Mountain has 9 great rides including flats. I really like Superman, and I think that Tastu should be just as great. Tatsu was being constructed, and I wasn't able to get on it.

 

I think Cedar Point has a lot of stuff, but a lot of mediocre rides like Corkscrew, Wildcat, Matterhorn, Maverick, Sky Hawk, Cedar Downs, Disaster Transport, and Super Himilaya. I think that stuff you like is better than having who cares how many rides in the park.

 

I can't believe myself, but I have Dorney Park as being better than Magic Mountain, and Cedar Point. Technically, if Tastu is great, it would tied with Dorney. At Dorney, I'm including the new ride because I have been on it at GL, and other places. So, that place now has 9 great rides, but Laser might soon be removed so it might be 8 pretty soon???

[hemmy]

I did say it was my opinion of the rides, don't hate me

[AllenA07]

I can't see how you can possibly compare Deja Vu and Wicked Twister, as they are not even close to being comparable rides. Superman in my opinion is almost (still a huge stretch) closer to Wicked Twister than Deja Vu. I really don't think there is any point in attempt the comparisons between the parks, both parks really offer different rides. I've never been a fan of the SFMM v. CP wars, the parks are separated by 2,000 miles (give or take a few) and are not now nor will they ever be in any meaningful competition with each other.

 

When Cedar Fair purchased Knott's I was at that point thinking that they would attempt to turn Knott's into Cedar Point West in order to compete with SFMM, however to date this has not yet happened.

[ebl]

"...they [Cedar Fair] would attempt to turn Knott's into Cedar Point West in order to compete with SFMM, however to date this has not yet happened." (AllenA07)

 

They're working on it, though. Knott's may come close to Blackpool in number of coasters in such a small area. Pony Express is what, number nine for them?

 

And I do agree about the whole SFMM vs. Cedar Point thing. It's pointless.

 

Eric

[VivaLaVibora]

The whole reason why we always compare them is because they both have a lot of roller coasters in the U.S. Not only that, but it's Six Flags vs Cedar Fair do or die. Obviously, these parks aren't doing as great as the big boys even though they have the most roller coasters in each chain.

 

It's always Disney vs Universal because Universal is in the running with Disney. It's the same thing.

 

The thing was before I become an enthusiast, and started worrying about headlines, and so on, I had no idea that Cedar Point existed. I probably didn't even hear that Magic Mountain existed. They are still mostly local parks which is sad. The respective companies don't want to advertise Magic Mountain across the US, and neither does Cedar Point. Just recently, I say some coupons in the paper for Cedar Point. People must think what the heck is that?

 

They just don't put out the money like Disney or Universal does? They have Disney commercials, and they have Orlando commercials. I have seen Busch, and I have seen Universal. I have not seen Cedar Point, or Magic Mountain. No wonder why the attendance for both parks isn't that high. Why put all that money into those parks, and not treat them like super parks around the U.S. It seems stupid to me.

[ginzo]

^It would be silly to promote SFMM nationally as a destination park right now because they don't have any on property hotels. Cedar Point is limited by being a seasonal park in a fairly isolated location. That being said, I do think a lot of the larger US parks should be reinvented as resort type places with on property hotels, decent food, high end shows, etc.

[coolhandluke]

The only thing I see similar with Wicked Twister and Deja Vu is that they both go forwards...then backwards...and are vertical 2 points...hmm...yeah, that's it. I can't imagine the ride experiences being similar. Someone else compared Maverick to Superman? How? And then listed Maverick as one of CP's many "mediocre" rides...? Huh? And Tatsu must be as good as which "Superman"? The Escape? That makes no sense to me. Ultimate Flight, maybe? I'm so lost on people's logic.

 

I tried to compare the parks one-to-one a while back. I had just been to CP and wanted to see how it and MM stacked up. There is no way to do it. You'll end up needing to compare X2 to Disaster Transport or Magnum to Tatsu. It just doesn't work.

 

Now, as a disclaimer, I consider myself a "Critical Fanboy" of Cedar Point. I love the park, and it will always have a soft spot in my heart. I love their rides (mostly), and I typically look for the good in the park. But I'm anything but oblivious (and typically not sympathetic either) to their problems. Mean Streak sucks. Kiddy Kingdom is the epitome of non-carnival ghetto. Disaster Transport is a joke. Their "acceptable amount of wetness" threshold is lower than a certain TPR member's. That almost brings me to tears (which is bad, because those tears would close the park for wetness). CP is like a first car to me--nowhere near perfect, but I love 'em anyway.

 

So, never being to MM, and my "critical fanboy"ism gives me grounds to not compare the two. Though MM does look more intense overall, and I love intense rides (X2 is actually #1 on my "want to ride" list, just ahead of EGF and El Toro). Oh, I guess the utter lack of similarities between the rides might play a part in it too...[end ventilation]

[edboxer]

IMHO, this is article does nothing more than try to promote SFMM at the expense of CP. If I was CP, I'd be suing for defamation of character.