Flash Passes & Other "Queue Skipping" systems

[orangeblue]

One of the more controversial issues to hit the amusment park industry over the past few years has been the introduction of fast/flash pass systems at many larger parks. Some people feel they are unfair to the guests that don't use them, or harm capacity; while others love them for being able to skip 2 hour lines on busy days. In addition, I'm sure parks like Six Flags like the idea of making money off of their long lines caused by bad operations (ie one train running on a busy day or understaffing a ride). Anyways, I'm wondering what you guys think of these systems. Are they implemented well, are they worth it, etc?

 

Personally I like the idea, but have never actually used it myself. If my home park of BGA were to get a QBot or similiar system I'd be pretty happy. I've never understood the argurments againt it such as the whole class argument claim that such systems seperate the richer and poorer park patrons. For me I see it like visiting a restaurant, where someone with more money to spend might buy a filet, while someone with less money might buy a sirloin. Both get a good experience, one just choses to spend a little more to get a slightly better one. The fact is, this is how a capitalist society works, and I see no problem with this philosphy permiating into the amusment bussiness. If I have the choice to spend 20 dollars to avoid standing in a hot line for an hour I would gladly pay that. Overall, I hope more parks adopt this system (as long as it is in an efficent fashion).

 

Opinions? What have been your experiences with flash passes?

[YoshiFan]

I am 100% against it

 

As mentioned, they can purposely run 1 train on rides to get more people to buy it and make the line longer

 

I also don't like how the park is basically selling your place in line. If I cut in line, I'd be thrown out of the park, yet I am suddenly allowed to break park rules and cut the line because I gave the park some more money.

I know some will say it's not cutting as you are just holding your place in line but if you get in another line while waiting for your ride time you are in 2 lines at once which isn't possible normally and with gold flash pass, you can get 4 rides in the same time it takes a non flash pass user to get 1 ride

 

What happened to everyone being equal in a park? Is it right that a family who saves all year to take their kids to the park and can barely afford admission then has to be cut in line the whole day?

 

I'll use Kingda Ka as an example of why the system is horrible. It normally can run 4 trains, one day in 2006 they were using 2 trains. With so many flash pass users 1 entire train was devoted to flash pass most of the day. Then on the non flash pass train, 2 rows were devoted to VIP users. That means on a ride that could accomodate 72 riders at full capacity and was only at a maximum of 36 riders at half capacity, only 14 seats were available to non flash pass or VIP users. 14 seats a cycle, even every 3 minutes is 20 x 14 = 280 riders an hour

 

I know it will never go away because it makes the park so much money and I hate how it's being spread to other parks.

[orangeblue]

 

I'll use Kingda Ka as an example of why the system is horrible. It normally can run 4 trains, one day in 2006 they were using 2 trains. With so many flash pass users 1 entire train was devoted to flash pass most of the day. Then on the non flash pass train, 2 rows were devoted to VIP users. That means on a ride that could accomodate 72 riders at full capacity and was only at a maximum of 36 riders at half capacity, only 14 seats were available to non flash pass or VIP users. 14 seats a cycle, even every 3 minutes is 20 x 14 = 280 riders an hour

 

I know it will never go away because it makes the park so much money and I hate how it's being spread to other parks.

 

Like I said, I've never actually been in a park that uses the system, so my feelings on it might be different if I were to have some first hand experience with it. I stick by my opinion that the system is fair in principle, but I agree that the situation you described is completly unfair. Flash passes should not be something that hinders park enjoyment for the people that don't use them.

[robbalvey]

I am 100% for it. If a park has a fast pass/flash pass/express option, we will use it almost every time.

 

Why wait in line if you don't have to?

 

--Robb

[Pufferfish]

Really, I'm 50/50 on the topic. I like them because it allows for one to get on certain rides quicker on busy days. I'm against them because they cause the normal line to be even longer and sometimes time slots can be filled up and it will cause you instead of a 2 hour wait without the passes, a 4 hour wait with the passes. I would be much happier if parks would just add single-rider lines on everything instead.

[saxman47]

I like them, but I have a feeling they anger more people than they help. I know the few times I've gotten a flashpass the guests in the regular que look at you as if you just took their first born. I must admit, when the regular line is moving slow it is very frustrating to see flashpasser after flashpasser bypass you.

 

I can definitely see how a family at the park could get annoyed by this. They are probably thinking, I've already spent enough money to get in the place, and now they want us to shell out even more just to have a somewhat decent time.

 

I'm not saying that the flashpass is unfair. You pay more, you get more. That's the way life works. But, even so, a theme park's goal is to please the most number of guests, and I wonder what would happen if they ran a "trial" in one or two parks and eliminated the flashpass for a year.

[CoasterGuy06]

On busy days I love using the Qbots. As Robb said, if you don't have to wait in line, why do it?

[Sunfire]

It's all about perspective for me. I love using fast pass to reduce my wait time, but when I'm in the normal line, I envy the people going past me.

 

Actually, I become more frustrated at my home park, CGA. We don't have a flash pass system, but there is a "disabled riders" pass. Basically, you fork up more money, and you get to enter through the exit, making people in line wait another cycle. It's especially frustrating on a low capacity ride such as Psycho Mouse. The only time I've done something like that, was when I was in line for a different ride, and it broke down. I waited about 45 minutes and it was never fixed, so they gave me a voucher to ride Invertigo with no wait. But since I was a single rider, I just waited for an empty seat to be fair.

 

I don't think it's fair if it involves literally cutting in line, such as entering through the exit. But I think the system at Disney parks, where the Fast Pass and Stand-By lines combine, is a little more acceptable.

[Mr.Six]

I like the idea. Does it have flaws? Sure it does. I think a major part of how it works depends on how the crew treats it. I know that at Magic, there really isn't any sort of a uniform system on how we use it. Reason for that? Is that each station is created differently. Its impossible to make a system that each ride can follow identically. When staffing is great, the system works amazingly well. Let me explain with real life examples of Revolution...

 

If staffing allows it, we have a grouper ( a ride attendant who stands at the end of the queue bridge and holds guests from entering the station building. This person will also assign guests their rows). We'll have another person devoted to flashpass and handicap. The flashpass entrance on Revolution is located near the front of the train. An attendant will take their flashpass and then place them in the station rows and alert the attendant doing grouper than they've placed two or however many have you in a certain row and to not assign guests to enter that row. Bottom line, its best to sneak the flashpass guests past the other nonflashpass guests to avoid any sort of viewing unfairness that guests might experience. The non flashpass guests never know that the flashpass guests have gone in front of them, and the flashpass guest have a 5 minute wait , rather than a 1 hour wait. Everyone wins.

 

Now, more often than not we're unable to have a grouper or person devoted to handicap and flashpass so the person checking seats towards the front or dispatch needs to take on a double job. ( which does hurt operation ).

 

In this case all the guests are crowded in the station and see these flashpass people come in. But honestly, 99.9% of the guests don't seem to mind the fact that people PAID more money and therefore get an advantage. The deal is offered to everyone. Like I said before, there is no one way to do the flashpass system. It varies ride by ride, for the better or for the worse depending on the layout of the station.

 

I think Disneyland does a VERY good job at 'hiding' the fastpass guests from the non fastpass guests. They hardly see each other, and if they do they're out of sight in seconds. They don't get in line right in front of you normally.

 

The key to running a ride with a good flashpass system is communication. But often systems can be harmed by staffing issues, and other external issues that we can't prevent. Trust me, I understand the frustration that guests go through when they see a flashpass line that's out the door. But once again, it all boils down to the fact that you have that same chance to buy the flashpasses. If spending $20 in the stores is more important than cutting down your wait time then that's fine! Its all about sacrifices that people make. The people who have the flashpasses might not now be able to buy something to take home, but that was their choice!

 

Hope that was somewhat helpful.

 

-Mike

[Jekoon]

I'm against it.

 

I don't care if people can afford it or not. Everyone should wait their turn and get a fair chance. It's just like preferred parking! People are forced to the back rows because of this no matter how early they get to the park.

 

Besides, waiting in line with your friends is the best time in the park anyways!

[downunder]

I just base my assessment on what I want to achieve at a park, typically I would have travelled at least 10,000 miles to get to a park, so I am happy to pay extra to achieve in a day what may have taken several days. It winds up saving me because I don't have to spend as much time on holidays and the attached expenses like accomodation or I cxan cram in more things on a holiday.

 

I'm 100% for, it turned what would have been a typically hideous day at Great Adventure into a decent one, gold q-bot - worth every cent.

[ebl]

One of the best ideas to increase capacity at a park is the single rider line. I often go by myself and don't really care where I sit. By utilizing the single rider line where available, not only do I cut my wait (for free!), but I help fill an otherwise vacant seat.

 

SFMM has had a single rider line on Deja Vu since...I think the beginning---or nearly so. But they're incorporating them into other rides now.

 

Eric

[sfotkid]

^ Yep.. I think with more single rider lines the line would be reduced by 50 percent.

[robbalvey]

Besides, waiting in line with your friends is the best time in the park anyways!

Better than riding coasters? I don't think so.

 

I hate waiting in lines, so I buy the passes. If you like waiting in lines, knock yourself out. We will wave to you from the station.

 

 

--Robb

[RIP Psyclone]

Well, hopefully SFMM will need them even less with this new regime. Previously, it had been the norm to have 1 train operations across the board, turning what could have been 20-30 min waits into an hour or more.

[XII]

What happened to everyone being equal in a park?

If Communism failed in Russia and China, what makes you think that it'll work in some Six Flags Park?

But seriously, if it's offered to everyone, then it's fair. The more you pay, the more you'll get.

[orangeblue]

What happened to everyone being equal in a park?

If Communism failed in Russia and China, what makes you think that it'll work in some Six Flags Park?

But seriously, if it's offered to everyone, then it's fair. The more you pay, the more you'll get.

 

LOL "Everyone is equal, some people are just more equal than others."

[PURE]

What happened to everyone being equal in a park?

 

Nobody's equal.

 

Its reality, not a choice. Get used to it!

 

As long as I get my 4 free Flashpasses as part of being an Xtreme Play Pass holder, I'm not complaining.

[Hang And Bang]

Six Flags Over Georgia (my home park = several times a year)

 

Lucky bastard!

 

Personally I'm all for Flash Passes. Who wants to drive 8 hours just to wait in line? I wish every park had a fast pass system! It all comes down to what you're willing to spend your money on. Cheap souvenirs and an over-priced meal or more rides? The choice is obvious to me, but if you have 3 children it's probably different. That's the way it is, and to me Flash Passes aren't unfair in the least.

[robbalvey]

What happened to everyone being equal in a park?

Why does this have anything to do with people being equal? This is about what you are willing to pay for!

 

Do you not realize that levels of service based on cost exists in just about every industry?

 

Airline - Coach class versus first class

Cruise ships - Inside cabins versus balcony suites

Hotel rooms - Basic room versus luxury suite

Casino - Regular tables versus high rollers

Car Rental - Dodge Neon versus Ford Mustang

Concert Venue - Nosebleed seats versus mosh pit

Sporting Event - Outfield seats versus Sky Box

Fast Food - Normal meal versus super size

 

All of those examples is where the person who pays the higher price gets something better than the person who pays the lower price.

 

Why should a theme park, who is out to make money, NOT follow suit?

 

Is it right that a family who saves all year to take their kids to the park and can barely afford admission then has to be cut in line the whole day?

Yes. ABSOLUTELY. It is completely fair. Because it's a "choice."

 

The option is offered to everyone. And if that family of four cannot afford the $50 or so dollars it may be to have the flash pass option, then maybe they should save a little longer. And if they "choose" not to pay for the option, they have no right to be upset at the people who do.

 

I feel like people act as though the option is hundreds of dollars and "out of reach" to the average person. It's not at all.

 

First class airline tickets or cruise ship cabins can be hundreds if not thousands of dollars extra.

 

FlashPasses are like $20 to $30 per person in most cases. And if you're already going on a big coaster trip that is costing you thousands of dollars, that's nothing.

 

In the grand scheme of a "family day out" theme parks are NOT this 'horrible rip off' that a lot of you keep claiming. Just look at your average movie theater these days. You can easily drop $100 on a family of four to go see a 90 minute movie! And there you also have to sit through a bunch of ads, eat over-priced food, and probably have to pay too much in parking.

 

If you spend a full open to close day at your average park, do the math, you are getting a GREAT DEAL for your time spent at the park.

 

Sometimes I think people aren't going to be happy unless everything is handed to them for free...on a silver platter...by a topless Playboy Bunny.

 

--Robb

[Hang And Bang]

Sometimes I think people aren't going to be happy unless everything is handed to them for free...on a silver platter...by a topless Playboy Bunny.

 

--Robb

 

Or in some cases a Playgirl hunk.

 

Seriously though, it's ridiculous to moan about the Flash Pass system. It is what it is. It's available to everybody. If you can't afford it then wait a little while longer until you can save up to afford it. If you're taking your whole family on a big trip to park you've all been looking forward to then it's well worth it. If you're a coaster dork on a road trip who hits a particularly busy park, once again, it's well worth it. It's not a seperation of classes, it's an option offered to anyone willing to pay for it.

[Groteslurf]

"All pigs are equal, but some pigs are more equal than others." (George Orwell’s Animal Farm) “

 

I'm 100 % for. If there is a fast, flash, express, ... pass available, I'll get it.

[ginzo]

I'm against it.

 

Besides, waiting in line with your friends is the best time in the park anyways!

 

If waiting in line is the best time in the park, then you should support Q-bots because they give you more of your favorite thing.

 

I don't care if people can afford it or not. Everyone should wait their turn and get a fair chance. It's just like preferred parking! People are forced to the back rows because of this no matter how early they get to the park.

 

But you do get a fair chance. The preferred parking is available to anyone who wants to pay for it. Amusement parks are just businesses at their core. The cost of doing business is high in most cases and parks, especially seasonal ones, need to rake in as much money as possible.

[geaugalakeinexile]

I'll use any fast pass system when I travel to a park.

But not at my home park.

If I have traveled across the country and have only 2 or 3 days then I want to ride.

I really like Disney's system. Everyone can put their ticket in the machine and get a ticket out with the return time to come back and ride.

It's free and available to everyone.

 

If you like waiting in lines go to Cedar Point.

Just like the DMV, Long lines, spend too much money, and all you want to do is go for a ride.

[Teacups Make Me Sick]

IMO it is a sucker purchase.

 

I know when the park is empty and my group has to have a break from riding...they usually end up playing boardwalk games...eating or walking around in the shops. Therefore, tempting to spend more money.

 

But heck, if a person wants to buy into a product that promotes spending more $...thats fine by me...I just wanted to give my 2 cents.