Kennywood (KW) Discussion Thread

[CPGemini08]

I went with my other half to Kennywood yesterday. We're from NE Ohio, so it wasn't too far a drive. I just wanted to comment on something that made me a bit disappointed. Have the operations always been very laid back? She only does wooden coasters (which makes Kennywood worth it for us both), but even she noticed that the ride ops were more keen to finish their lollipops than to check the restraints before dispatch. I've seen the bad and the good at many different parks, but this one hit a sour note. It's labor day weekend. Why would it take until 3pm for a second train on 2/3 of the wooden coasters? Phantom and Sky Rocket's crew seemed great (although Phantom's station can use a bit better crowd control), but Jack Rabbit, Racer, and Thunderbolt all had their crew somewhat taking their time with dispatch. Joking around, talking to each other, but not in a rush to increase efficiency. I love the park, and as my first time there at night, it was beautiful. This isn't a reason for me not to go back by any means, but it was just something I noticed at the park yesterday. Just curious if this was already known, or if locals are used to it already.

[BigBad]

I think there about zero chance of RMC coming the Kennywood, let alone doing an Iron Horse conversion, but I'm not sure that I'd oppose an Iron Horse. Think about this: if the Jack Rabbit's double dip gets that kind of air and was built in 1921, what do you think Schilke could do?

[blk_mamba]

I went with my other half to Kennywood yesterday. We're from NE Ohio, so it wasn't too far a drive. I just wanted to comment on something that made me a bit disappointed. Have the operations always been very laid back? She only does wooden coasters (which makes Kennywood worth it for us both), but even she noticed that the ride ops were more keen to finish their lollipops than to check the restraints before dispatch. I've seen the bad and the good at many different parks, but this one hit a sour note. It's labor day weekend. Why would it take until 3pm for a second train on 2/3 of the wooden coasters? Phantom and Sky Rocket's crew seemed great (although Phantom's station can use a bit better crowd control), but Jack Rabbit, Racer, and Thunderbolt all had their crew somewhat taking their time with dispatch. Joking around, talking to each other, but not in a rush to increase efficiency. I love the park, and as my first time there at night, it was beautiful. This isn't a reason for me not to go back by any means, but it was just something I noticed at the park yesterday. Just curious if this was already known, or if locals are used to it already.

 

Interestingly enough, I was there yesterday as well. I also thought the ride operations were noticeable poor. I thought I was not being fair b/c my last parks were Cedar Point and Kings Island, two parks that make ride ops a competitive sport. We waited 2 hours for Exterminator, which was a fun ride, and is a wild mouse, but it is not worth a two hour wait. I was so angry when I made it to the front of the line to see they were sending trains with 2 people. There was no one grouping people and they were essentially sending trains half empty.

 

Also their card system with Black Widow made no sense. Often times I'd noticed that instead of grouping people for the next ride, ride op would go back into the control room. The ride would sit empty for at least 2-5 minutes before they loaded another batch of riders.

 

Even Johnny Rockets had a line out the door and they were not living up their name sake at all with only one register open while many works just stood around and watched the line grow. The food was pretty good though.

 

To be fair, Phantom, Thunderbolt, Jack Rabbit and Racer had pretty fast moving lines. Over all I liked the park. ALL of the woodies were surprising comfortable. I was expecting to get beat up, however all their woodies are very re-ridable. Steel Phantom at night is probably worth the cost of admission, but operations were terrible. Maybe the A teams were off or maybe it is b/c it is so late in the season. I am from Baltimore and I made sure I rode everything I wanted to ride b/c I can't imagine wanting to make that 4 hour trip again.

[coneyislandchris]

^ I was there on Saturday as well -- got there right at opening, and as such, had next to no wait on Phantom and Exterminator. As the day went on, the crowds definitely filled in and caused lines to back up. It wasn't until the kid and I got over to Racer that we experienced the wait becoming crushing, and since he's an almost-5-year-old that doesn't handle long lines all that well, we ended up heading over to pick up some of their per-ride fast passes. When we used them and got into the station for Racer, I was astonished to see that there was ONE single person checking seatbelts and bars on BOTH trains. No wonder it was ridiculously slow over there. Meanwhile, when we went back to Phantom later in the day, they had actually put a second train on and had checkers on both sides of the platform.

 

All that being said, we had a great time at the park for the kiddo's first visit. He's also addicted to Screamin' Swings now. Can't blame him -- those things are awesome.

[Cj1990]

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see RMC put in one of their T-Rex track coasters.

 

As far as operations at Kennywood.... They are terrible. I have NEVER been to that park where the ride ops were doing a good job. Never. It literally infuriates me every time to the point that I don't make attempts to visit really anymore but maybe once or twice a season... and only because I was invited.

 

It just shocks me that supervisors there just don't care... at all. Even a little hustle from the employees would make a difference.

[ajfelice]

As someone who manages operations, efficiency doesn't mean ride operator should be rushing to achieve the fastest dispatch every time. However, ride operators should be working briskly. For example, once the group of riders exiting have left the ride area, there should be an immediate transition to the next ride cycle. Small talk between employees between ride cycles is unprofessional and substantially adds time onto dispatch intervals/ride cycles. Another example is loading a coaster train, and the amount of time between guests entering the train and beginning to check restraints. Getting that amount of time reduced as much as possible will decrease dispatch times significantly as well. As for checking seats, ride operators should work briskly at a steady pace in which they are not dragging their feet or slowly meandering around the train. All of this is my main critique of Kennywood's operations in which ride operators will allow personal conversations to delay allowing guests to enter rides or delaying procedures such as restraint checking. All of it is capped with a slow walk where most of their feet do not even leave the ground.

 

Fortunately, I have never seen any guest put in harm's way at Kennywood as attention to safety seems adequate, but the lack of any sense of urgency is painful to observe and experience.

 

EDIT: My context of small talk is small talk instead of checking restraints or beginning to admit guests. Small talk while working productively is fine as long as nothing said is inappropriate.

Edited September 7, 2016 by ajfelice

[RCF]

I don't mind small talk while they work. I only have a problem when the small talk becomes more important than working.

 

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[Cj1990]

I have never even seen 'brisk' work being done. Even people I go with that aren't enthusiasts ask me, "why are they going so slowly?"

I never see them chatting or fooling around... I literally just seem them not caring and moving at a glacial pace. I will film it for you next time. I used to work in operations for SFMM on X2 and literally never had an accident.... but we hustled... even on days where it was 100 + we were working our butts off to make sure we were getting people on and out as quickly as possible.

Being safe doesn't mean moving painfully slow with a look and an attitude that you don't care. If they were smiling and having a good time and moving quickly that would look better, IMO, than moving sluggishly and looking miserable. I literally am going to film for you next time I am in line. That way you don't need to take my word for it. They need immense improvements.

[PennStater]

Let me just throw this out there... you'll never see me moving slow while checking restraints. However, yes many of the team members at Kennywood do have this issue. Why? I wish I knew. It seems there's just an unfortunate lack of motivation and enthusiasm. They are not rewarded for working fast and therefore see no reason to do so. It's just not in their mindset, I guess. To my knowledge, none of our coasters have cycle counters on them (maybe Sky Rocket does but I've never worked controls there) so there's no way to make it a "contest" like at some parks. I wish there was an answer. If only we could hire all 21+ and also air condition the park... maybe that would help?

[Cj1990]

lol. I have wanted, on so many occasions, so apply there to be in operations in some form. I just think that someone needs to be on the teams at all times watching them. If there isn't a reward system... maybe punishment for not performing well lol. If you can't beat them, join them.

I wasn't rewarded for moving fast at SFMM, but we still did. It's funny. I made double working for AT&T and did so much less work there, yet still hustled.... I think because we got in trouble if we didn't. At the time I worked there, it was back in '09, and we weren't utilizing trackers yet. I don't even remember doing competitions. So I know for sure you can have great operations without additional tools. I am glad to hear you are a hard worker =] makes me feel a little better that not every employee is a snail lol

[Samuel]

Let me just throw this out there... you'll never see me moving slow while checking restraints. However, yes many of the team members at Kennywood do have this issue. Why? I wish I knew. It seems there's just an unfortunate lack of motivation and enthusiasm. They are not rewarded for working fast and therefore see no reason to do so. It's just not in their mindset, I guess. To my knowledge, none of our coasters have cycle counters on them (maybe Sky Rocket does but I've never worked controls there) so there's no way to make it a "contest" like at some parks. I wish there was an answer. If only we could hire all 21+ and also air condition the park... maybe that would help?

 

I've noticed a palpable "too cool for school" fringe among young employees in Pittsburgh, in all kinds of jobs, from retail to customer service. I can't tell you how many times I've had orders screwed up at stores and restaurants by a mumbling Slim Shady kid, or a high school junior who flirts with a girl throughout my entire transaction. Kennywood doesn't import European employees like Hershey and Cedar Point do, so I believe it has to make do with local applicants. Two years ago, I witnessed the Sky Rocket dispatcher passively say to another operator, "Okay, just lemme finish this page" -- she was doing homework on the job while the trains stacked. Things could and should improve, but I don't blame Kennywood for not being able to totally wring those tendencies out of the local teens. At the same time, like PennStater pointed out, there are examples of caring, fast-moving employees at Kennywood, and I don't want to forget about them because of a few bad apples.

 

Pittsburgh is an odd place...it culturally stands alone, for better or worse, with few cultural imports or exports. The city is a weird combination of a beautiful skyline, famous sports teams, great museums, food, schools, technology, banking, and Kennywood ...but also some sketchy neighborhoods and "Walmart people" Appalachian vibes that don't foster courteous efficiency as a virtue. I also think that the huge focus on youth sports in the area grows early egos in kids when they're 14 or 15, and when that sets the tone for what's cool, you don't get humble, fast-moving employees.

[xChris125x]

[FeelTheFORCE]

Let me just throw this out there... you'll never see me moving slow while checking restraints. However, yes many of the team members at Kennywood do have this issue. Why? I wish I knew. It seems there's just an unfortunate lack of motivation and enthusiasm. They are not rewarded for working fast and therefore see no reason to do so. It's just not in their mindset, I guess. To my knowledge, none of our coasters have cycle counters on them (maybe Sky Rocket does but I've never worked controls there) so there's no way to make it a "contest" like at some parks. I wish there was an answer. If only we could hire all 21+ and also air condition the park... maybe that would help?

 

I've noticed a palpable "too cool for school" fringe among young employees in Pittsburgh, in all kinds of jobs, from retail to customer service. I can't tell you how many times I've had orders screwed up at stores and restaurants by a mumbling Slim Shady kid, or a high school junior who flirts with a girl throughout my entire transaction. Kennywood doesn't import European employees like Hershey and Cedar Point do, so I believe it has to make do with local applicants. Two years ago, I witnessed the Sky Rocket dispatcher passively say to another operator, "Okay, just lemme finish this page" -- she was doing homework on the job while the trains stacked. Things could and should improve, but I don't blame Kennywood for not being able to totally wring those tendencies out of the local teens. At the same time, like PennStater pointed out, there are examples of caring, fast-moving employees at Kennywood, and I don't want to forget about them because of a few bad apples.

 

Pittsburgh is an odd place...it culturally stands alone, for better or worse, with few cultural imports or exports. The city is a weird combination of a beautiful skyline, famous sports teams, great museums, food, schools, technology, banking, and Kennywood ...but also some sketchy neighborhoods and "Walmart people" Appalachian vibes that don't foster courteous efficiency as a virtue. I also think that the huge focus on youth sports in the area grows early egos in kids when they're 14 or 15, and when that sets the tone for what's cool, you don't get humble, fast-moving employees.

 

You could say this about almost all of the youth throughout the country today. That sense of entitlement is everywhere. I wouldn't say it's just a problem in Pittsburgh, Kennywood just so happens to be located right in the middle of one of those areas, so you experience it full-force.

[Philrad71]

^ I was going to respond and say that it sounded a lot like Buffalo...with the exception of the beautiful skyline, famous (good) sports teams, great museums, schools, technology, banking, and Kennywood.

 

And then of course, throw in the sketchy neighborhoods, "Walmart people" Appalachian vibes that don't foster courteous efficiency as a virtue and toss in: Chicago-style crime for good measure.

 

Voila...that sounds just like Buffalo!

 

PS: I will throw a bone out there that I intentionally left out food as I think that is one big highlight for Buffalo. That and what they are doing to clean up the waterfront downtown. Good stuff.

[DirkFunk]

 

I've noticed a palpable "too cool for school" fringe among young employees in Pittsburgh, in all kinds of jobs, from retail to customer service. I can't tell you how many times I've had orders screwed up at stores and restaurants by a mumbling Slim Shady kid, or a high school junior who flirts with a girl throughout my entire transaction. Kennywood doesn't import European employees like Hershey and Cedar Point do, so I believe it has to make do with local applicants. Two years ago, I witnessed the Sky Rocket dispatcher passively say to another operator, "Okay, just lemme finish this page" -- she was doing homework on the job while the trains stacked. Things could and should improve, but I don't blame Kennywood for not being able to totally wring those tendencies out of the local teens. At the same time, like PennStater pointed out, there are examples of caring, fast-moving employees at Kennywood, and I don't want to forget about them because of a few bad apples.

 

I've been in this stupid hobby for 20 years and there's nothing now about park employees that's any worse than it was in 1996. As an example, here's some guy's trip report from SFNE, back when it was Riverside -

 

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rec.roller-coaster/riverside$20park$20TR$2096|sort:relevance/rec.roller-coaster/55vw1xRKcxM/OeaXyAAVFiQJ

 

In fairness, Riverside was considered a total pit back then, but yeah, nothing's really changed except that now there's no real barriers to entry for one to make money writing think pieces about what new generations are ruining.

[larrygator]

Yes, it was mentioned 5 days ago

[Samuel]

Yes, it was mentioned 5 days ago

 

If true, boy, ain't that just like Kennywood? Some of the terrain acrobatics and even the aesthetics shown on Lightning Rod and Outlaw Run just scream Kennywood all over. If a layout could be carved over the far hillside past Log Jammer and/or along the train hillside a la Boulder Dash, I can't imagine what nuttiness RMC could develop. Come on, Kennywood, be the second park to go for the Chance/Morgan-RMC super combo! Hey, no harm in a little daydreaming, right?

[Samuel]

^ I was going to respond and say that it sounded a lot like Buffalo...with the exception of the beautiful skyline, famous (good) sports teams, great museums, schools, technology, banking, and Kennywood.

 

And then of course, throw in the sketchy neighborhoods, "Walmart people" Appalachian vibes that don't foster courteous efficiency as a virtue and toss in: Chicago-style crime for good measure.

 

Voila...that sounds just like Buffalo!

 

PS: I will throw a bone out there that I intentionally left out food as I think that is one big highlight for Buffalo. That and what they are doing to clean up the waterfront downtown. Good stuff.

 

LOL, I have family in Buffalo, and do enjoy my visits there! I'd love a slice of La Nova pizza right about now...

[boldikus]

Yes, it was mentioned 5 days ago

 

If true, boy, ain't that just like Kennywood? Some of the terrain acrobatics and even the aesthetics shown on Lightning Rod and Outlaw Run just scream Kennywood all over. If a layout could be carved over the far hillside past Log Jammer and/or along the train hillside a la Boulder Dash, I can't imagine what nuttiness RMC could develop. Come on, Kennywood, be the second park to go for the Chance/Morgan-RMC super combo! Hey, no harm in a little daydreaming, right?

[FeelTheFORCE]

If true, we could be looking at a potential *signature* attraction that "puts them on the map," per se. Something we haven't seen from Kennywood in over 15 years. Exciting stuff!

[larrygator]

I have to say, with that terrain this will be a great coaster engineering feat for RMC. I haven't been to Kolmarden, but this unused terrain around Kennywood is much steeper than the terrain where Boulder Dash and Lightning Run sit. I do really hope it is true.

[DILinator]

These are the kind of rumors I almost wish I didn't even hear, because they get me so excited for something that may not even have a shred of truth to it! Seriously, a terrain RMC at Kennywood, could be the greatest thing ever! Here's hoping there's fire with this smoke!

[RyanTPM]

One of the coaster podcast owners (not sure if I'm allowed to name them here?) said they spotted Alan Shilke, Fred Grubb and some executives from KW walking around the Thunderbolt area today. Could this be the next Iron Horse conversion?

I believe that the person who said he spotted them has now admitted to making this whole thing up unfortunately, he, or someone who saw what he said,may also have submitted the rumor to Screamscape.

[DILinator]

One of the coaster podcast owners (not sure if I'm allowed to name them here?) said they spotted Alan Shilke, Fred Grubb and some executives from KW walking around the Thunderbolt area today. Could this be the next Iron Horse conversion?

I believe that the person who said he spotted them has now admitted to making this whole thing up unfortunately, he, or someone who saw what he said,may also have submitted the rumor to Screamscape.

 

See, this is why I said I don't like getting excited about rumors...

[FeelTheFORCE]

Well you still never know. Either way, RMC or something else, another signature-style coaster at Kennywood sure would be a nice addition.