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Dollywood Discussion Thread

P. 796 - Ride closing 10/30 to remove launch and install chain lift!
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dstephe9 Veteran

dstephe9

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Haha it was mostly a rhetorical question assuming most wouldn't know the answer, but I agree, I'd say it's more of a integration issue from the multiple vendors.. Also, I'd say they are already overriding some of the faults

 

Here's why I say this, the original spout of downtime, when the possible Dollywood Maintenance guy said it was sensors, during that time, the train wouldn't even leave the station.. Now it at least gets to the launch before shutting down.. Maybe this is due to a different set of sensors or maybe they have overridden some of the station sensors? Who knows

 

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coasterbill
coasterbill

Did I call this or what? Anyway, I did better side-by-side comparison for you.

coasterbill
coasterbill

Luckily any day now Lightning Rod is probably due to launch a wheel into a mountain or spontaneously combust or something so we can stop talking about covid...

prospekt88
prospekt88

^Lets be real...if you really wanna follow those guidelines you wouldn’t even be going to amusement parks. 

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annatheshortest Apprentice

annatheshortest

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A lot of coasters have buggy sensors. And the operators ignore/override known false readings. As I recall that was part of the problem that lead to the Smiler crash. LR may not have overrides because of past situations like that (or only have them in an engineering/test mode nogt available to the regular operators)

 

The block system on the Smiler was operational, and the fault that was reported was valid, so the sensors and PLC were correct in stopping the ride. Alas, it was a team member and an engineer that went into the PLC system and overrode the fault system, thus causing the crash. There were not false reading to ignore, no malfunctioning sensors. Just pure human error.

 

And all roller coasters are equipped with the ability to override the automatic operation system--it's known as maintenance mode. It allows maintenance and engineers (or in some cases upper management) to operate the ride outside of the PLC and perform tasks that would otherwise be prohibited in automatic mode--such as lowering a brake even though the train is not on all the sensors. But like you said, it is not available to the average operator. At our park, only maintenance and ride managers have keys to switch the ride into maintenance mode. Although there are some rides, such as Sky Rocket, that allow you to clear faults from the system in automatic mode, so the typical operator can clear them.

 

That being said, it is hard to assume what led to Lightning Rod's failure to launch. It could be as simple as a sensor not picking up on the train's position and energizing the LSM system, or a power dip, or something much more complicated in the PLC or the launch system itself. Whatever it is, the ride did as it was programmed to do and shut down in the case of a fault.

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STDog Community Regular

STDog

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A lot of coasters have buggy sensors. And the operators ignore/override known false readings. As I recall that was part of the problem that lead to the Smiler crash. LR may not have overrides because of past situations like that (or only have them in an engineering/test mode nogt available to the regular operators)

 

There were not false reading to ignore, no malfunctioning sensors. Just pure human error.

 

My understand was that repeated sensor errors had led to a culture of overriding the system. That led to lax checking to ensure the the fault was invalid prior to overriding it.

Sort of, "Oh that again. It happens all the time. It's nothing to worry about."

 

I may be confusing it with another ride.

 

I do know it's a common problem with fault detection systems and human nature leads to complacency.

 

Just like the large number of warnings in manuals on on equipment lead people to ignore them after a while.

They actually make things less safe because people assume they a waste of time and just ignore them.

 

Who pays attention to a car alarm in a parking lot anymore? Large numbers of false alarms led to them being ignored.

 

That being said, it is hard to assume what led to Lightning Rod's failure to launch. It could be as simple as a sensor not picking up on the train's position and energizing the LSM system, or a power dip, or something much more complicated in the PLC or the launch system itself. Whatever it is, the ride did as it was programmed to do and shut down in the case of a fault.

 

Exactly as it should have for the fault it detected. They question is why it's detecting faults that don't appear to be valid.

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annatheshortest Apprentice

annatheshortest

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My understand was that repeated sensor errors had led to a culture of overriding the system. That led to lax checking to ensure the the fault was invalid prior to overriding it.

Sort of, "Oh that again. It happens all the time. It's nothing to worry about."

 

I may be confusing it with another ride.

 

I do know it's a common problem with fault detection systems and human nature leads to complacency.

 

Just like the large number of warnings in manuals on on equipment lead people to ignore them after a while.

They actually make things less safe because people assume they a waste of time and just ignore them.

 

Who pays attention to a car alarm in a parking lot anymore? Large numbers of false alarms led to them being ignored.

 

I cannot say much on the culture of operation at Alton Towers, or the lax checking of faults prior to overriding them, but I do know from personal experience operating coasters that we are taught not to ignore any faults that are presented. Our maintenance staff also checks the fault before overriding it to avoid incidences such as the Smiler's. If you ever go back into a fault history, you'll notice that more often than not these "false" faults are typically triggered at the start up of the ride before everything is operational.

 

 

Exactly as it should have for the fault it detected. They question is why it's detecting faults that don't appear to be valid.

 

This could also be a problem rooted in the fact that it is new technology (we had similar instances with new sensors and prototype rides) and that often times the computer may sense something that isn't there and shut the ride down. The weather could be a factor, too. But again, that is speculation as well.

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STDog Community Regular

STDog

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My understand was that repeated sensor errors had led to a culture of overriding the system. That led to lax checking to ensure the the fault was invalid prior to overriding it.

 

I cannot say much on the culture of operation at Alton Towers, or the lax checking of faults prior to overriding them, but I do know from personal experience operating coasters that we are taught not to ignore any faults that are presented.

 

In a perfect world, but humans screw up. Processes are put in place to fight human nature but they don't always succeed.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/nov/24/alton-towers-rollercoaster-crash-caused-by-human-error-theme-park-says

 

In a statement on Tuesday, the theme park owner said: “The investigation concluded that the incident was the result of human error culminating in the manual override of the ride safety control system without the appropriate protocols being followed."

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/27/alton-towers-owner-fined-smiler-rollercaster-crash

Investigators ... found that a chain of errors led staff to override a safety warning when an empty test carriage got stuck on the track in strong winds.

 

Engineers mistakenly believed the safety warning was a false alarm, the investigation found, and released the next carriage full of passengers, with the disastrous effect that it crashed at high-speed into the empty test carriage.

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dstephe9 Veteran

dstephe9

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Good news is that LR was running very well with the temps higher, it might run fine today being in the 60s.. cold weather does wreak havoc on sensors so maybe that's what was causing the issues.. I know someone was told by an employee, it was the cold weather.. can't really believe employees but might give you a reason to keep your hopes up!

 

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dstephe9 Veteran

dstephe9

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I know the weekend was a Holiday but I don't understand why they don't just

 

1.) Close it for the rest of the season so not to get anyone's hopes up and figure out what's causing the failed launches (better worded as safety features kicking in to cut the launch.. Launch really isn't failing, something is shutting it off)

 

2.) Or work night and day to fix it.. common occurrence here is that Dollywood list the ride as TC, they try a few launches in the morning and then end up closing it for the rest of the day.. if they really want it running the last few days of the season work night and day and figure it out

 

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STDog Community Regular

STDog

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Just witnessed a failed launch...

 

Test run or passengers? Have you seen any loaded runs?

 

2.) Or work night and day to fix it.. common occurrence here is that Dollywood list the ride as TC, they try a few launches in the morning and then end up closing it for the rest of the day.. if they really want it running the last few days of the season work night and day and figure it out

 

What's to say they didn't have a dozen good runs before the fault?

 

I've had things test perfectly dozens of times only to fail when the real execution matters.

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dstephe9 Veteran

dstephe9

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I mean honestly, there are six days left in the season.. the ride hasn't ran most of December.. stop wasting people's time and money like the above poster that drove 9 hours to ride it.. Just close the ride for the season, list it as closed.. it hasn't been closed temporarily, it has been closed pretty much the entire month of December although Dollywood list it as only a temporary closure..

 

I have over 20 rides on it this season, so I am fine. I have visited the park let's say 30 - 40 times this season.. LRs track record is maybe 50% up this season during my visits.. But listing the ride as TC gets people's hopes up while Dollywood delivers the same thing everyday.. a few failed launches in the morning then nothing else.

 

I commend Dollywood on trying, but we also need to realize that Dollywood isn't a park for everyone and LR is what is bringing some folks to the park.

 

And updating my signature like you did is pretty mature for a 32 year old just saying, I'm sure you make your parents proud

 

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ytterbiumanalyst Grand Master

ytterbiumanalyst

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I mean honestly, there are six days left in the season.. the ride hasn't ran most of December.. stop wasting people's time and money like the above poster that drove 9 hours to ride it.. Just close the ride for the season, list it as closed.. it hasn't been closed temporarily, it has been closed pretty much the entire month of December although Dollywood list it as only a temporary closure..

You know what, you're right. For the last couple of pages, I was opening this thread wanting to read about Dollywood's Christmas event and kinda bummed that it was only your incessant whining. But I've seen the light! I now realize that working hard to open it so at least a few people can ride it is not the right course of action.

Dollywood totally should work hard to open it and then prevent anyone from riding it at all. That's definitely better.

 

And updating my signature like you did is pretty mature for a 32 year old just saying, I'm sure you make your parents proud

Yeah, man, it's been a long time since I cared about that. But just to make you happy.....

 

Sent from my most recent bunga bunga party using a used condom.
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