Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

[prozach626]

58 minutes ago, teacherkim said:

The most I got was from the group sales leader on the bth scenes tour that talked about the new GM's commitment to improvements. 

Yeah Kim, but don't they say that with every new GM? It would be hard for them to spin it any other way. I think Dave was one of the true outspoken GM's that said he wanted a new large roller coaster along with the general improvements.

 

I think we would have been a perfect fit for the new tilt coaster that hadn't found a home, but the powers that they could fit it in like a puzzle piece at Cedar Point. Maybe they're holding out for the hybrid RMC conversion of The Boss that has made sense since New Texas Giant. Like Kim said, the roughness needs to be addressed. Or, maybe they could start advertising it like a rough piece of shit like Kentucky Kingdom did with T3. It worked for a couple years... not really.

I haven't been on The Boss for years, though. It's still easy to believe what everyone is saying.

[Danrarbc]

Six Flags St Louis is probably going to have some behind the scenes updates in 2025. Chief among them getting a competent local management team in place. Zero parks should be sharing presidents. Not even tiny ones. Supposedly there are multiple job openings for head chefs across the chain but I don't know if this park is one of them - IMO this would be one area where job sharing IS acceptable for a year as Cedar Flags attempts to set up a management team. Great America's head chef could temporarily oversee the STL menu for a year.

I'd expect improvements to how the park approaches staffing in line with what happens at Cedar Fair parks, even before management is fixed, and a focus on park appearance. Cedar Fair also has a history of announcing restaurant changes later than other things - so if anything like that was happening we wouldn't know yet.

[TrippinBillie]

1 hour ago, prozach626 said:

Yeah Kim, but don't they say that with every new GM? It would be hard for them to spin it any other way. I think Dave was one of the true outspoken GM's that said he wanted a new large roller coaster along with the general improvements.

 

I think we would have been a perfect fit for the new tilt coaster that hadn't found a home, but the powers that they could fit it in like a puzzle piece at Cedar Point. Maybe they're holding out for the hybrid RMC conversion of The Boss that has made sense since New Texas Giant. Like Kim said, the roughness needs to be addressed. Or, maybe they could start advertising it like a rough piece of shit like Kentucky Kingdom did with T3. It worked for a couple years... not really.

I haven't been on The Boss for years, though. It's still easy to believe what everyone is saying.

Thought the EXACT same thing when I heard about that Tilt Coaster.  How we couldn't get that into the Tidal Wave part of the park, or replace the Ninja with it is beyond me.  I REALLY hope they move forward with an RMC Boss.  It's like low hanging fruit.  Fixes a problem child, adds to the investment in that back left corner for traffic with Lasso, Joker and RR.....and it's not a total ground up needing all new footers, infrastructure, queue housing and all the added costs of a new build.  

[Danrarbc]

57 minutes ago, TrippinBillie said:

Thought the EXACT same thing when I heard about that Tilt Coaster.  How we couldn't get that into the Tidal Wave part of the park, or replace the Ninja with it is beyond me.  I REALLY hope they move forward with an RMC Boss.  It's like low hanging fruit.  Fixes a problem child, adds to the investment in that back left corner for traffic with Lasso, Joker and RR.....and it's not a total ground up needing all new footers, infrastructure, queue housing and all the added costs of a new build.  

That Tilt model was manufactured for flat(ish) ground. It also seems to be going into a plot of land around 200ftx300ft.

The dimensions don't work in the Ninja location - no matter what multiple buildings would need to disappear for it to work. If Cedar Flags expects to improve the entertainment in the park - which is a weak area especially compared to Cedar Fair parks - then they can't afford to lose Empire Theater and that along with Chop Six would almost certainly have to go. And the park can ill-afford to lose indoor seated restaurants.

The Tidal Wave location can work but it isn't big enough on its own. Once you start leaving that immediate location the areas around it aren't particularly flat - but there is empty space. It's not impossible but it's a more challenging location. The reality is Cedar Point already had a flat empty plot that happened to fit the model. Add to that it's a North America record, and potentially a FIRST depending on when COTAland gets theirs built, I think it's a no-brainer to send it to Cedar Point.

 

As for RMC Boss: Cedar Fair is kind of a diva when it comes to rides. If they run into any trouble with them, even prototypes, they decide to blacklist entire manufacturers at a drop of a hat. They disliked Intamin so much they even avoided using them for replacement parts for Intamin rides they already had (which according to the Ohio TTD accident report was likely a reason for that accident). Cedar Fair appears to be convinced that RMC is worthy of being on their blacklist - given the fact that Cedar Flags is the entire Cedar Fair management team I'd expect their blacklist to continue. RMC Boss might now be off the table despite the obviousness of it - and its structural shortcomings might make it a poor candidate for Gravity Group to use precut on it.

[TrippinBillie]

2 hours ago, Danrarbc said:

That Tilt model was manufactured for flat(ish) ground. It also seems to be going into a plot of land around 200ftx300ft.

The dimensions don't work in the Ninja location - no matter what multiple buildings would need to disappear for it to work. If Cedar Flags expects to improve the entertainment in the park - which is a weak area especially compared to Cedar Fair parks - then they can't afford to lose Empire Theater and that along with Chop Six would almost certainly have to go. And the park can ill-afford to lose indoor seated restaurants.

The Tidal Wave location can work but it isn't big enough on its own. Once you start leaving that immediate location the areas around it aren't particularly flat - but there is empty space. It's not impossible but it's a more challenging location. The reality is Cedar Point already had a flat empty plot that happened to fit the model. Add to that it's a North America record, and potentially a FIRST depending on when COTAland gets theirs built, I think it's a no-brainer to send it to Cedar Point.

 

As for RMC Boss: Cedar Fair is kind of a diva when it comes to rides. If they run into any trouble with them, even prototypes, they decide to blacklist entire manufacturers at a drop of a hat. They disliked Intamin so much they even avoided using them for replacement parts for Intamin rides they already had (which according to the Ohio TTD accident report was likely a reason for that accident). Cedar Fair appears to be convinced that RMC is worthy of being on their blacklist - given the fact that Cedar Flags is the entire Cedar Fair management team I'd expect their blacklist to continue. RMC Boss might now be off the table despite the obviousness of it - and its structural shortcomings might make it a poor candidate for Gravity Group to use precut on it.

Well said!  

I didn't even realize the tilt coaster is that large RE: the Ninja plot of land.  Makes perfect sense for that not being sent to us.  I guess a new Vekoma model would be a nice replacement for Ninja, but I can't see our park getting budget for that.  It does seem Cedar is hellbent on replacing all of the old Vekoma models seeing parks like KI and others bidding goodbye to theirs - and MM having theirs on the chopping block.  Regardless, would like to see Ninja be retired.

The Boss is such a unique situation.  I know (heard) there was contact between the park and RMC for a iron treatment and was scheduled around when Covid hit and it was scrapped.  You'd THINK that would be re-let green now, but the CF thing is always a hurdle.  I'm hoping the powers that be wipe the slate clean of the "offender" list.  I feel it only hurts the parks by not working with industry titans like Intamin and RMC.  Good to see SFNE getting an Intamin, as well as SFGa.  But you never know.  It's just such a glaring point of contention and would love to have it solutioned.  RMC seems like the absolute win/win there from an ROI perspective. 

[SixFlagsOMA80]

I thought Dan Snider was the GM of SFSTL and we stopped sharing with Great America? Did that change again??

[Danrarbc]

1 hour ago, TrippinBillie said:

Well said!  

I didn't even realize the tilt coaster is that large RE: the Ninja plot of land.  Makes perfect sense for that not being sent to us.  I guess a new Vekoma model would be a nice replacement for Ninja, but I can't see our park getting budget for that.  It does seem Cedar is hellbent on replacing all of the old Vekoma models seeing parks like KI and others bidding goodbye to theirs - and MM having theirs on the chopping block.  Regardless, would like to see Ninja be retired.

A Vekoma Wildcat (Fønix) looks like it'd fit in the Ninja plot of land. It's a slim layout that should be able to run behind Chop Six with Axis perhaps having to be the only casualty (if that).

That said I was only looking at the land - without knowing the EXACT positioning because there's nothing there yet to actually look at in satellite imagery. The land used at Cedar Point is a different shape than the Ninja plot.

I may be incorrect about the Tilt not fitting though. According to Vekoma the Cliffhanger layout is 164ft x 460ft. Based on those dimensions that actually should fit where Ninja is. That was also supposedly the model Energylandia purchased and appears to match the renders. That actually JUST BARELY fits in at Cedar point.

 

1 hour ago, SixFlagsOMA80 said:

I thought Dan Snider was the GM of SFSTL and we stopped sharing with Great America? Did that change again??

I thought I saw that too. Either way I don't expect anything other than service and infrastructure updates. Should simplify the process of getting something like a head chef hired though.

[teacherkim]

11 hours ago, prozach626 said:

Yeah Kim, but don't they say that with every new GM? It would be hard for them to spin it any other way. I think Dave was one of the true outspoken GM's that said he wanted a new large roller coaster along with the general improvements.

 

I think we would have been a perfect fit for the new tilt coaster that hadn't found a home, but the powers that they could fit it in like a puzzle piece at Cedar Point. Maybe they're holding out for the hybrid RMC conversion of The Boss that has made sense since New Texas Giant. Like Kim said, the roughness needs to be addressed. Or, maybe they could start advertising it like a rough piece of shit like Kentucky Kingdom did with T3. It worked for a couple years... not really.

I haven't been on The Boss for years, though. It's still easy to believe what everyone is saying.

Every new GM? No idea. Said before, sure. You can choose to be cynical and you may be right. I can choose to be hopeful and I may be right. I wasn't giving any sort of opinion, just reporting what I was told and we can all choose to perceive it as we see appropriate. Maybe the rookie GM will be a dud, maybe he will grow into his position and get a voice. Only time will tell how it goes. In the end it's a first world problem that I hope works out.

Yeah, the tilt coaster would have been fun. We're also probably a good fit for a single rail, that would be nice. Or a free spin, that would not be nice. Something small and cheaper with a re-track of Boss would probably give them the most bang for their buck. Although the full conversion of Boss would be really really nice. 

[teacherkim]

11 hours ago, Danrarbc said:

Six Flags St Louis is probably going to have some behind the scenes updates in 2025. Chief among them getting a competent local management team in place. Zero parks should be sharing presidents. Not even tiny ones. Supposedly there are multiple job openings for head chefs across the chain but I don't know if this park is one of them - IMO this would be one area where job sharing IS acceptable for a year as Cedar Flags attempts to set up a management team. Great America's head chef could temporarily oversee the STL menu for a year.

I'd expect improvements to how the park approaches staffing in line with what happens at Cedar Fair parks, even before management is fixed, and a focus on park appearance. Cedar Fair also has a history of announcing restaurant changes later than other things - so if anything like that was happening we wouldn't know yet.

Speaking of food. One thing that I always thought CF did pretty well at some of the parks was bring in some local flavor, pun sort of intended, with the food choices. Like Skyline at KI or Pinks and Nathans at the east coast parks, etc, etc. Would be cool to do that in more places. KC has BBQ, bring in a locally well known chain there. St. Louis has the Hill, why not have a local pasta/pizza place..........even if it's a chain like Pasta House, or Imo's or Psghetti's it would be better than most of what they have and be unique to the park.

[teacherkim]

6 hours ago, SixFlagsOMA80 said:

I thought Dan Snider was the GM of SFSTL and we stopped sharing with Great America? Did that change again??

I was confused on that too, but as I understood what was told to me, we have our own GM but share a President with SFGA; two different positions.

[Danrarbc]

38 minutes ago, teacherkim said:

Speaking of food. One thing that I always thought CF did pretty well at some of the parks was bring in some local flavor, pun sort of intended, with the food choices. Like Skyline at KI or Pinks and Nathans at the east coast parks, etc, etc. Would be cool to do that in more places. KC has BBQ, bring in a locally well known chain there. St. Louis has the Hill, why not have a local pasta/pizza place..........even if it's a chain like Pasta House, or Imo's or Psghetti's it would be better than most of what they have and be unique to the park.

Local head chefs with power over the menu can certainly use local chains to quickly jump start a refresh. That's not the case at KI though the Skyline location in park goes back for years.

Not sure if Primo's kitchen is able to serve Pasta House quality though. It could pull Imo's off. But ultimately they may prefer their own twists on local favorites.

[SixFlagsOMA80]

One thing I noticed Sunday when I was there was the train was not running for the freaks. Hopefully it didn’t break again. It has been running super slow lately, slower than it ever has in the past. 

[Danrarbc]

8 hours ago, SixFlagsOMA80 said:

One thing I noticed Sunday when I was there was the training was not running for the freaks. Hopefully it didn’t break again. It has been running super slow lately, slower than it ever has in the past. 

With rain in the forecast they might not have wanted to risk it being unable to climb the hill near Thunder River.

I know Tommy G has recently received plenty of work so I'm not sure how much needs to be done to restore some power. 

I'd say they could consider a diesel or electric rig for use during the most challenging conditions but that could easily lead to them using only that one because it's just easier. 

[KBrylczyk]

I went to SFStL for the first time this past weekend.  Um, quick question, but why so so many people whine about this park?  It's GREAT!  I had a blast all day long!

The Boss - Holy crapola, maybe it's because I had bottom-of-the-barrel expectations from hearing nonstop bitching about how rough this ride has become, but goddamn this is one of the most balls-out coasters I've ever been on.  This thing just RRRRRRRRRIPS through the course and tells the passengers to hold the hell on.  I truly, 100%, unironically, LOVE this ride.  Love love love.  Give me more.  The morning rides were exceptionally fun because they still had the sprinklers going during the post-MCBR turnaround.  I was hooting, hollering, and laughing the entire ride every time.  My only complaint is the queue being nothing but uphill ramps for five miles.  Other than that, no notes.  10 laps.

Mr Freeze - D-D-D-DAYUM!!!!!  I've never been on a Freeze before (the one in Texas was dead when we visited) and holy hell what a fun ride!  Surprise airtime kicks all throughout the course, the spike is wacky, the launch is punchy, and the track switch in the station is a hoot!  7 laps.

American Thunder - Not great, not terrible, extremely mediocre but still cute and fun enough. 1 lap.

Screamin Eagle - Classic woodie that's gotten a little worse for the wear over the years but I still had a blast flying through the woods! 3 laps. Would have been more but it's in the worst area of the park to walk back to over and over and I just wasn't feeling it.

Ninja - Ow. 1 lap.

Batman - Mirror clone!  Still a fantastic invert, even if it has been cloned all over the world a thousand times.  It's always worth the ride. 1 lap.

Boomerang - Pass.

Pandemonium - Zippy little spinner, fun enough but nothing amazing.  We hardly spun for the first half but realllllllly got moving for the second half.  We hit the brakes and kept spinning like a teacup for a while until we moved far enough ahead to catch the reset bar. 1 lap.

River King Mine Train - I love me a good, classic mine train.  While this one isn't big or fast it has heart.  I loved the terrain style layout. 2 laps.

Rookie Racer - Cute little ride for the young'ns but nothing noteworthy for adults.  I really got tired of listening to the revving engine sound effect that plays near nonstop while waiting for Joker. 1 lap.

Joker - Fun, but without the funhouse queue operating.  The views from this ride, though, holy cow.

Supergirl - I've been on a bunch of Enterprise-style flats, this is my first time in the open-air style seats.  Fun, though hardly a thrill, and over-engineered compared to a classic Enterprise.

Justice League - It broke as soon as we left the loading area.  Sat there for about 10 minutes, then rode half of the ride with the lights on.  No offer to re-ride with show lighting, no desire to try again.

SkyScreamer - I love Sky Flyers.  This is yet another one.

Catwoman's Whip - Closed most of the day, when I saw it operating it already had a 45-minute wait and I really didn't care enough to wait.

Seriously, people, this park is a lot of fun.  It certainly isn't the greatest but it is FAR from the worst.

[bert425]

^ while I don't blame you at all for skipping Boomerang?  I always ride it when there, just for the history.

that's the old "Flashback" from Six Flags Over Texas  (removed to make way for more Gotham (along with the bumpercars) way back in 2012

(and for a bit there, right next to it was the old "Dungeon Drop" from Astroworld (it had been rethemed as Superman, but now gone anyways)

[teacherkim]

23 hours ago, KBrylczyk said:

I went to SFStL for the first time this past weekend.  Um, quick question, but why so so many people whine about this park?  It's GREAT!  I had a blast all day long!

The Boss - Holy crapola, maybe it's because I had bottom-of-the-barrel expectations from hearing nonstop bitching about how rough this ride has become, but goddamn this is one of the most balls-out coasters I've ever been on.  This thing just RRRRRRRRRIPS through the course and tells the passengers to hold the hell on.  I truly, 100%, unironically, LOVE this ride.  Love love love.  Give me more.  The morning rides were exceptionally fun because they still had the sprinklers going during the post-MCBR turnaround.  I was hooting, hollering, and laughing the entire ride every time.  My only complaint is the queue being nothing but uphill ramps for five miles.  Other than that, no notes.  10 laps.

Mr Freeze - D-D-D-DAYUM!!!!!  I've never been on a Freeze before (the one in Texas was dead when we visited) and holy hell what a fun ride!  Surprise airtime kicks all throughout the course, the spike is wacky, the launch is punchy, and the track switch in the station is a hoot!  7 laps.

American Thunder - Not great, not terrible, extremely mediocre but still cute and fun enough. 1 lap.

Screamin Eagle - Classic woodie that's gotten a little worse for the wear over the years but I still had a blast flying through the woods! 3 laps. Would have been more but it's in the worst area of the park to walk back to over and over and I just wasn't feeling it.

Ninja - Ow. 1 lap.

Batman - Mirror clone!  Still a fantastic invert, even if it has been cloned all over the world a thousand times.  It's always worth the ride. 1 lap.

Boomerang - Pass.

Pandemonium - Zippy little spinner, fun enough but nothing amazing.  We hardly spun for the first half but realllllllly got moving for the second half.  We hit the brakes and kept spinning like a teacup for a while until we moved far enough ahead to catch the reset bar. 1 lap.

River King Mine Train - I love me a good, classic mine train.  While this one isn't big or fast it has heart.  I loved the terrain style layout. 2 laps.

Rookie Racer - Cute little ride for the young'ns but nothing noteworthy for adults.  I really got tired of listening to the revving engine sound effect that plays near nonstop while waiting for Joker. 1 lap.

Joker - Fun, but without the funhouse queue operating.  The views from this ride, though, holy cow.

Supergirl - I've been on a bunch of Enterprise-style flats, this is my first time in the open-air style seats.  Fun, though hardly a thrill, and over-engineered compared to a classic Enterprise.

Justice League - It broke as soon as we left the loading area.  Sat there for about 10 minutes, then rode half of the ride with the lights on.  No offer to re-ride with show lighting, no desire to try again.

SkyScreamer - I love Sky Flyers.  This is yet another one.

Catwoman's Whip - Closed most of the day, when I saw it operating it already had a 45-minute wait and I really didn't care enough to wait.

Seriously, people, this park is a lot of fun.  It certainly isn't the greatest but it is FAR from the worst.

I'm so glad you enjoyed the park! I'm constantly telling the local gp that bitch on FB about it being the "WoRsT pArK eVer" that they are completely off base. Lol, there are far worst parks. If you loved the Boss as it is now you would have adored it when it still had the helix in place. Completely neutered it by taking that out as far as I'm concerned; but, yes you do need a mountain sherpa to guide you to the ride station 

[TrippinBillie]

Can't help but wonder if Green Lantern might be on the way to SFSTL.  It suits needs - but damn that thing is old.  I remember loving it as a kid at Kentucky Kingdom.  But it's aged and gotten rough.  I could see SF slapping new paint on it and putting floorless trains, plopping it in Tidal Waves area and trying to pass it as a "new ride", bc it's such a SFSTL thing to do (see Boomerang).  Thoughts?

Disclaimer - I haven't ran land survey numbers to see if it'd even fit in the Tidal Wave area.  Just assuming it'd have to be there as it's the flattest piece of open land.

[Danrarbc]

36 minutes ago, TrippinBillie said:

Can't help but wonder if Green Lantern might be on the way to SFSTL.  It suits needs - but damn that thing is old.  I remember loving it as a kid at Kentucky Kingdom.  But it's aged and gotten rough.  I could see SF slapping new paint on it and putting floorless trains, plopping it in Tidal Waves area and trying to pass it as a "new ride", bc it's such a SFSTL thing to do (see Boomerang).  Thoughts?

Disclaimer - I haven't ran land survey numbers to see if it'd even fit in the Tidal Wave area.  Just assuming it'd have to be there as it's the flattest piece of open land.

It might work.

There are plenty of other parks that might need it too though.

The parking lot is flat too  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[prozach626]

I thought this was dumb at first... Then, I realized it was a hilarious possibility. New company, same shit.

It would almost certainly be deconstructed, shipped, and reconstructed before the carousel is open.

[TrippinBillie]

46 minutes ago, prozach626 said:

I thought this was dumb at first... Then, I realized it was a hilarious possibility. New company, same shit.

It would almost certainly be deconstructed, shipped, and reconstructed before the carousel is open.

I mean if you look at what they did to us for Boomerang, it's not bats**t crazy to think 

[prozach626]

Exactly. No one would be truly surprised, especially if they threw some floorless trains on it to make it slightly less painful.

[Danrarbc]

Floorless trains cost more money.  They’d totally not do that

[Ed Farmer]

I really enjoy the ride, so I'd consider it a huge win if it got relocated it to St. Louis. It'd be much closer to me and would avoid the scrapyard, which, if the rumors are true, I think is the likeliest outcome. 

 

[SteveStL]

Better than the Empty Lot we have had for the last 4 or 5 years.

I always had a gut feeling Scream (from MM) would relocate here.  Same ride essentially sans the Floorless Train.

[KBrylczyk]

If it actually gets shipped to St Louis maybe there'll be the benefit of them dismantling the trains and rebuilding them with tighter wheel assemblies.  Green Lantern used to be tolerable and fun, recently it's like getting in the ring with Tyson.