Voting with Your Wallet? Your Opinions.

[AmyUD06]

(I'm posting this here since I didn't really think it belonged in Theme Parks, Roller Coasters, and Donkeys, but if I was mistaken, please move the thread.)

DISCLAIMER: This post will contain political themes that are pro-LGBTQ+ rights and pro-women's bodily autonomy.  If this sort of thing offends you to the level that you feel it necessary to provide non-constructive commentary, please move along.

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As most of you who live in the US should probably be aware, many states are passing (or have introduced with good likelihood of passing) laws that take extremely harmful actions against members of the LGBTQ+ community: from effectively banning medical treatments (not just for minors), to outlawing people wearing clothes that don't match their birth gender, to preventing people from using the bathroom that matches their presentation, to eliminating any reference to LGBTQ+ people from classrooms, and the list goes on and on.  This does not even begin to describe the continual attacks on women's bodily autonomy or education of black history from these same states.

I'm lucky enough to live in a solidly-good-politically state, but I had planned a road trip for this summer that took me through West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, and North Carolina, including my first ever visit to Dollywood, which has been a park I've very much wanted to experience.  Tennessee is, as we all know, the home to Dollywood, and also one of the states that has passed some of the worst laws, one of which could be interpreted to criminalize my existence.  While I do not have much actual concern for my safety were I to travel there, I certainly would not want to give any fiscal support to a state government that enables such things.  The same thought process applies to many of those states listed - Do I want to support places with my tourism dollars that are endangering women's health, supporting anti-LGBTQ+ bigotry, and actively harming people like me in their states?

My question for others, especially those that do plenty of travel for parks, is how do you rectify this in your mind?
Do you simply choose to not go to these parks?
Do you justify it with a "well, I'm giving my business to Park X, which I know does not share the state government's views, so it's okay" - knowing that the state still gets taxes from that park/hotel and any ancillary supported businesses (food, fuel, etc)?
Something else entirely?

Like, I know I was never going to Dubai or Saudi Arabia for any of their parks regardless of what rides were put in, but this is right here in my own country.  Perhaps I just need to get accustomed to that reality...

I'm sorry if this all sounds disconnected and rant-y...but it's something I've been struggling with these past few months and would appreciate any advice that anyone might have to provide.  Any thoughts on this topic (other than "it's good that states are doing these things") are extremely welcome.  If anyone doesn't feel comfortable answering publicly, feel free to PM me your thoughts.

Even if you don't have a response, thanks for reading my venting.

(Sorry to call you out, but I'm especially looking for thoughts from @SharkTums, @bert425, @Nrthwnd, @coasterbill, @ytterbiumanalyst, and @KBrylczyk.  Thanks if you can provide any insight.)

 

[Chiselphane]

Here we justify things of that nature as "We don't allow bad people to take away what we love".   A big example is we are fans of Harry Potter and our family is full of every letter of LGBTQ.  So despite JK not wanting my nephew to exist, we still went to Universal Orlando and enjoyed those sections of the park, because we weren't going to let her shittiness take that away from us.   

 

[bert425]

Vote with your wallet, and do NOT feel guilty about it.

but it's going to come down to your decision.

*if* I were to ever go back to Dollywood - and I'd very much like to.   I'd spend a lot of $$ there because Dolly is and always has been an ally, therefore I would support something she's involved with, even tangentially.    But I would not spend $$ elsewhere in the area (ie: I'd stay at Dreammore, wouldn't eat downtown in Gaitlinburg, etc) unless I was certain I would feel comfortable supporting the individual business.

it's basically the "rules" I follow myself now..I choose to never eat Chick-Fil-A, or Cracker Barrel.    

 

ultimately, you do what you want to do, and if you want to justify it, you can justify just about anything.

but don't ever feel "guilty" about your support of something when you agree with what they do.

 

 

(another perfect example:  SeaWorld    I really don't give a shit about what the Blackfish activists, or PETA activists try to tell me about the park.  I've seen the good they do for the animals they rescue, and I'm just fine giving them my support and money).

 

 

hope that input helps?

[AmyUD06]

53 minutes ago, Chiselphane said:

Here we justify things of that nature as "We don't allow bad people to take away what we love".   A big example is we are fans of Harry Potter and our family is full of every letter of LGBTQ.  So despite JK not wanting my nephew to exist, we still went to Universal Orlando and enjoyed those sections of the park, because we weren't going to let her shittiness take that away from us.   

 

That is certainly a good way of looking at it!

37 minutes ago, bert425 said:

Vote with your wallet, and do NOT feel guilty about it.

but it's going to come down to your decision.

*if* I were to ever go back to Dollywood - and I'd very much like to.   I'd spend a lot of $$ there because Dolly is and always has been an ally, therefore I would support something she's involved with, even tangentially.    But I would not spend $$ elsewhere in the area (ie: I'd stay at Dreammore, wouldn't eat downtown in Gaitlinburg, etc) unless I was certain I would feel comfortable supporting the individual business.

it's basically the "rules" I follow myself now..I choose to never eat Chick-Fil-A, or Cracker Barrel.    

ultimately, you do what you want to do, and if you want to justify it, you can justify just about anything.

but don't ever feel "guilty" about your support of something when you agree with what they do.

(another perfect example:  SeaWorld    I really don't give a shit about what the Blackfish activists, or PETA activists try to tell me about the park.  I've seen the good they do for the animals they rescue, and I'm just fine giving them my support and money).

hope that input helps?

It does help, Bert.  You're one of the people I was looking forward to hearing from the most, given your residence in one of the states-with-unfriendly-governments.  I get what you're saying, which was my gut original reaction.  And that's exactly how I would have done a Dollywood trip given the current circumstances (staying on property and not patronizing neighboring businesses), but I guess I was still concerned that Dollywood pays taxes and those go to support their bigoted government.  I guess that's not that much in the grand scheme of things, is it?

Thanks for the reply!

[coasterbill]

If I decided to only visit places where the government has never done anything shitty or to only support businesses that have never done anything shitty or donated to anything shitty then I would never leave my house. 

Brit and I are both politically engaged but this is not something that we worry about 99.9% of the time. 

[AmyUD06]

11 minutes ago, coasterbill said:

If I decided to only visit places where the government has never done anything shitty or to only support businesses that have never done anything shitty or donated to anything shitty then I would never leave my house. 

Brit and I are both politically engaged but this is not something that we worry about 99.9% of the time. 

Thanks.  That's one of the options my thought process was bouncing between.

[SharkTums]

I think this is a great, valid, and topical question.  I have many of the same feelings as posters above but will add something else that we've done in the past and will continue to do.  OFFSET!  You know when you buy airfare and they tell you that if you pay a little more you can offset your carbon emissions for the flight? I do that for some of the places we visit!  In the past I have donated to Women's and Gay Rights organizations when visiting the Middle East. The LDF, ACLU, and NAACP when in certain US States. And now will probably add Abortion Rights and LGBTQ+ orgs in our US Visits as well.

Like others have said, I will not let stupid laws and rules that most of the public doesn't even support stop me from doing something I love and making me happy, but I absolutely can choose to spend the bare minimum in certain places or with certain brands. Everyone who does our trips know that I will go out of my way to avoid Chick Fil A and try to stop the bus at food stops where that's not even an option but I'm not going to ban someone from eating there, I'll just try to educate them on either better options or the offset theory that I use! We have been very vocal since before it was a thing that we don't support JK Rowling but Kristen loves Harry Potter and I'm not going to deny her something she loves because of that horrible bitch! I'll just continue to be vocal about it so people can at least know that she's terrible!

Hope this helps and makes sense!

[AmyUD06]

4 minutes ago, SharkTums said:

I think this is a great, valid, and topical question.  I have many of the same feelings as posters above but will add something else that we've done in the past and will continue to do.  OFFSET!  You know when you buy airfare and they tell you that if you pay a little more you can offset your carbon emissions for the flight? I do that for some of the places we visit!  In the past I have donated to Women's and Gay Rights organizations when visiting the Middle East. The LDF, ACLU, and NAACP when in certain US States. And now will probably add Abortion Rights and LGBTQ+ orgs in our US Visits as well.

Like others have said, I will not let stupid laws and rules that most of the public doesn't even support stop me from doing something I love and making me happy, but I absolutely can choose to spend the bare minimum in certain places or with certain brands. Everyone who does our trips know that I will go out of my way to avoid Chick Fil A and try to stop the bus at food stops where that's not even an option but I'm not going to ban someone from eating there, I'll just try to educate them on either better options or the offset theory that I use! We have been very vocal since before it was a thing that we don't support JK Rowling but Kristen loves Harry Potter and I'm not going to deny her something she loves because of that horrible bitch! I'll just continue to be vocal about it so people can at least know that she's terrible!

Hope this helps and makes sense!

That actually makes a ton of sense, and sounds like a great solution!  Thanks for the reply.

[prozach626]

I'm not extreme. I avoid certain products if it's convenient enough. Entertainment wise, I choose what aligns within the best interests of our child related to our personal values. I avoid businesses and destinations who promote the causes that go against our values, but not at the cost of raising "the weird kid." Maybe we wont avoid most popular destinations all together, but I'll certainly avoid loading up on merchandise or buying their products elsewhere.

It's a compromise. I gave exponentially fewer shits about the political environment before I had a child.

[Nrthwnd]

Honestly Amy, I won't be much help here. All my parks travel for a good ten years was done through TPR and Elissa and Robb's planning and scheduling. I think they would be better at commenting and advising. Along with pretty much everybody else you mentioned here. And "all of the above" looks pretty good, from what I'm seeing, so far. Hope any or all of this helps you.

[ytterbiumanalyst]

This is something I've thought a lot about, especially with the shenanigans in Florida and Tennessee. Back when Mike Pence was governor of Indiana, he did some pretty awful stuff that caused a bit of an uproar. Holiday World was pretty quick to say "They don't speak for us" and still support basic human decency, and though some of that is obviously out of not wanting to lose your customer base, I think it was genuine.

 

There are a lot of good people in Tennessee and Florida. Disney has been done wrong by DeSantis, and I don't really quite understand what he's going for there. Just really seems like he thinks hating vulnerable people will win him votes, and he's willing to harm his state's biggest source of income to do it. Just bonkers. But DeSantis is not Florida, and from what I understand, he's not actually very popular there.

 

As for us, we've spent a lot of time and money and effort getting ourselves to a safer place to raise a family, and a lot of it had to do with the political climate in Missouri becoming more hostile to folks like us. I think the next few vacations will probably be around the Great Lakes area, but that's more because things up here are easier to get to than they used to be than it is out of a desire to spend money in states that are aligned with our politics. Minnesota is a good place full of good people, but it's got its wackos too. Everywhere does.

 

We'll probably get to Florida eventually. We were going to in 2020, canceled it for obvious reasons, and really haven't seen a good opportunity to reschedule yet. It'll happen when the time is right.

 

I guess that's my long winded way of saying do what you feel is best. Whatever you decide, if you decided with good intentions, then you did all right.

[KBrylczyk]

Quote

Everyone else's thoughts in this thread

That's it.  That's my answer.

[AmyUD06]

On 3/30/2023 at 2:13 PM, prozach626 said:

I'm not extreme. I avoid certain products if it's convenient enough. Entertainment wise, I choose what aligns within the best interests of our child related to our personal values. I avoid businesses and destinations who promote the causes that go against our values, but not at the cost of raising "the weird kid." Maybe we wont avoid most popular destinations all together, but I'll certainly avoid loading up on merchandise or buying their products elsewhere.

It's a compromise. I gave exponentially fewer shits about the political environment before I had a child.

This makes sense.  Thanks!

On 3/30/2023 at 2:25 PM, Nrthwnd said:

Honestly Amy, I won't be much help here. All my parks travel for a good ten years was done through TPR and Elissa and Robb's planning and scheduling. I think they would be better at commenting and advising. Along with pretty much everybody else you mentioned here. And "all of the above" looks pretty good, from what I'm seeing, so far. Hope any or all of this helps you.

I'm sorry to hear that.  Thanks for the input, even if it is minimal!

On 3/30/2023 at 7:17 PM, ytterbiumanalyst said:

This is something I've thought a lot about, especially with the shenanigans in Florida and Tennessee. Back when Mike Pence was governor of Indiana, he did some pretty awful stuff that caused a bit of an uproar. Holiday World was pretty quick to say "They don't speak for us" and still support basic human decency, and though some of that is obviously out of not wanting to lose your customer base, I think it was genuine.

 

There are a lot of good people in Tennessee and Florida. Disney has been done wrong by DeSantis, and I don't really quite understand what he's going for there. Just really seems like he thinks hating vulnerable people will win him votes, and he's willing to harm his state's biggest source of income to do it. Just bonkers. But DeSantis is not Florida, and from what I understand, he's not actually very popular there.

 

As for us, we've spent a lot of time and money and effort getting ourselves to a safer place to raise a family, and a lot of it had to do with the political climate in Missouri becoming more hostile to folks like us. I think the next few vacations will probably be around the Great Lakes area, but that's more because things up here are easier to get to than they used to be than it is out of a desire to spend money in states that are aligned with our politics. Minnesota is a good place full of good people, but it's got its wackos too. Everywhere does.

 

We'll probably get to Florida eventually. We were going to in 2020, canceled it for obvious reasons, and really haven't seen a good opportunity to reschedule yet. It'll happen when the time is right.

 

I guess that's my long winded way of saying do what you feel is best. Whatever you decide, if you decided with good intentions, then you did all right.

Awesome, yeah that's sensible.  Thanks for the input!

9 hours ago, KBrylczyk said:

That's it.  That's my answer.

Message received haha!  Thanks!

[prozach626]

Almost every last bit of it all is a money game that you can't win. None of these companies politicians really give a shit about your stance, or mine. Their directions are allowed to go whichever way they believe will benefit them financially in the long run, disguised as progressive, conservative, or occasionally neutral.

One example of current events:

Bud Light's Dylan Mulvaney can is released.

Conservatives protest.

Anheuser Busch (AB) takes an actual surprising financial hit.

AB releases a ton of conservative advertisements.

AB releases conservative leaning statement about their brand to kiss ass.

Republicans, who claim to be in support of the conservative efforts, call to support AB conveniently after the statement, because the RNC gets a shit load of donations from AB.

 

The world is fucked, because there is such a complex system of dollars floating over your head, through your phones, and pumped into every aspect of your life to influence your social behavior, you'll never be able to follow. Every political/social stance movement has some kind of dime backed agenda behind it. No amount of capitalism, socialism, communism, anarchism, or any ism' can save us at this point.

 

We're all increasingly radical, and we all despise each other. As long as we're divided, the 1% (including the people in positions of power who pretend to be against the 1%), are going to mind fuck you into insanity and get you to do exactly what they want you to do.

Don't drive yourself crazy. Cheers.