Saving places / re-entering the line

[LuminousAphid]

Not sure if I've shared this story before here, but during a hot, semi-busy Disneyland day many years ago, we got into a huge line (60-75 min) for Splash Mountain, right behind two teenage girls ... who were joined 10 minutes later by three teenage boys they knew (grrr) ... and then again 15 minutes later by another handful teenagers (!) That was all it took for one of my friends to quietly duck out of line and seek out/notify park security (yes, she had to leave and re-enter the line just an annoying bathroom user, but the party behind us who knew what was happening had no problem with that).

 

Anyway, my friend returned five minutes later and didn't say anything. When we passed the guard at the entrance of the barn portion of the queue, my friend nodded to her and the guard nodded back, unbeknownst to the rotten teenagers in front of us. I thought it was weird that the guard didn't do anything right then and there ... until we got all the way to the loading station and encountered the cast member directing people into seating rows. Before the teens could tell her how many in their group, another cast member walked over, asked the whole group to come with him, took them past the logs, and led the now-angry kids down the exit hallway.

 

Not sure if that was the proper cast-member protocol then (or is now), but it was pretty damn awesome to witness at the time.

 

That story alone made this thread worth it. That must have been so satisfying!

 

Also thanks for the rest of you for the input; glad to know I'm not the only one who this annoys, but I also seem to the the only one who ever calls these people out. I guess everyone else in line is too afraid to say anything, but screw that, if you're going past me in the line I'm at least going to say something to call you out.

[Married a Canadian]

And I'm honestly a little surprised that some people here would actually tolerate this, but then again, like I said before, I hate 99.9999% of humanity so I'm not tolerant at all to someone else's stupid needs for stupid reasons that could have totally been avoided in the first place

.

 

I agree with you Rob, and don't tolerate it myself but sometimes (and I acknowledge on RARE occasions) that stupid looking need or reason to you is actually quite genuine to the parent in question.

My son is one of the special needs brigade, from autism right through to mobility. I don't make excuses for it when we travel to theme parks, we work with the system (Fast pass, flash system etc)...and my wife and I make sure that we do everything we can not to take the p*** out of what the park offers in terms of assistance (I loathed the abuse of the Disney DAC as a parent of a genuine special needs child!) We also try to educate my son on doing the right thing and have him try to understand what is going on in the world around him.

This of course involves making sure he has gone to the toilet before waiting in a line (be it fast pass or normal). We have been caught in that rare situation when he did not want to use the toilet before going on a ride (and you can't force a child) but did once we got to the front of a line (it was at Disney). In this case the Cast member showed COMPLETE understanding (we were using Fastpass) and allowed us to come back using our DAC (without having to get another time) as one look at my son and our arrangements for him (DAC, doctors letters, hearing aids, orthotics) showed we weren't trying to pull a fast one. I don't know how it looked to the rest of the line, but at that point I did not particularly care as I had done all I could as a parent to try not to upset the general public at large. I had not picked a long line, we had tried to use the bathroom before going on the ride and I had got a fastpass and was using DAC as a plan around the park for the LONG lines. We got caught cold, Disney then did what Disney does best and showed the customer service that makes us return.

I know that you visit and see more than I do in the industry, and I am not surprised your patience gets stretched thin because the GP at large can be pretty wearying at times (and I see it myself...and I have seen that DAC being used for things it NEVER should be designed for )...but I just wanted to say that on that very rare occasion...the person who looks like an idiot, really has tried not to be.

[Married a Canadian]

In terms of line jumping, I grabbed a couple of teens at Thorpe park in the UK who were just barging through the line with the usual "our mates are at the front" line. It was funny getting the "you can't touch us" (minus expletives) routine from them but them not realising that the WHOLE line they had just jumped agreed with what I did, and they went from having one punter (me) manhandling them to just about everyone else shoving them out the line. Security turned a blind eye to it as well.

Sometimes being a teenager counts against you.

[Johnlloyd]

Line jumping is so annoying! It happens quite a bit during the mid-season at Canada's Wonderland. I have alerted staff members and ride operators at times but, it hardly gets resolved even though there are signs (within the queue) stating that line jumping is not permitted as ejection from the park will take place. The only rare time it has been resolved is when the line for White Water Canyon is quite long and someone (or a group of people) think it's okay to "beat the line" by pushing in somewhere further up the queue. Luckily for them, a staff member walking through the exit path had noticed them "sneak in" and demanded that they get to the back of the line. I would like to mention that I think line jumping at Canada's Wonderland was down this year compared to last year. I just think that line jumping for any reason is highly intolerable and unacceptable as it slows down the wait time for the rest of the people waiting in line.

[Hilltopper39]

IAt Disney I have seen people exit the line with kids to use the restroom then get issued a rider swap pass so they can just wait for the rest of their party to finish then take their ride or re-join their party at the loading station which seems like a reasonable solution for certain circumstances.

 

See, I even think this shouldn't be allowed. First of all, if you're a parent and you've chosen to wait in a line that is so long that your child is going to have an "emergency" and needs to run to the bathroom, you're an idiot. You either don't know your kid well enough to know their bathroom habits to know if they can withstand the length of the line, or you're making them wait some ungodly amount of time which is totally unfair to the kid. BOTH of these things can be totally avoided, especially at Disney, and if this is the case, then yes, that person is a bad parent and a complete moron. The ONLY acceptable scenario, and fair to everyone else in line to me is the entire party leaves the line, and then gets back in line and the END OF THE LINE when they are done taking care of whatever personal business they needed to attend to.

 

 

Most of the time when I've seen that happen at Disney the cast member usually notices the situation and offers the rider swap just to ease the situation, the guest wasn't demanding it or anything. Disney is about the only place that can do that seamlessly and not have it effect their operations (or the other guests) because they have CM's everywhere and they're so efficient.

 

I'm not saying it should be allowed I was just saying it's nice when a CM can address it and make it a pleasant situation for the guest without making it a frustrating situation for everyone else in line. Again Disney is about the only place that can pull it off because they do offer the rider swap pass, but that's also the kind of thing that makes Disney so special.

 

But yeah if you use FastPass+ properly it should never be an issue, and at other parks really young kids aren't going to be waiting in the longer lines for larger attractions anyways.

[michaellynn4]

I tend to be more sympathetic to a parent with a little kid who needs to leave the line for a minute

 

Pff. Same thing. I was at Great Adventure this past weekend with my 4-year-old son and just before being admitted to ride Houdini he told me "Daddy, I need to go bathroom". I ask him "Can you hold it or do you need to go right now?"

 

"Right now Daddy."

 

I take him out of line and head to the nearest bathroom (which wasn't as near as I would have hoped but thankfully no incidents). When we get back to the ride, the line had more than doubled in length. We sucked it up and got back in line at the back. I wasn't about to push our way through and use him as an excuse. That's lame. Yes it means more waiting, but it's more fair for everyone, and hopefully teaches the kid to let us know about his bathroom needs BEFORE getting in line rather than at the end of it. (We'll see on that front though.)

 

Oh I agree, if / when I have kids, I'd act the exact same way as you did. It serves as a teaching moment. I just meant that although I don't approve of it, I wouldn't exactly rank them as being as egregious as a bunch of snotty teenagers just shoving their way through everyone.

[robbalvey]

In terms of line jumping, I grabbed a couple of teens at Thorpe park in the UK who were just barging through the line... It was funny getting the "you can't touch us" (minus expletives) routine from them but them not realising that the WHOLE line they had just jumped agreed with what I did, and they went from having one punter (me) manhandling them to just about everyone else shoving them out the line.

To be fair, I think physical assault is worse than line jumping. It's one thing to not like line jumpers and let the proper park staff know about it, or even to say something directly to them letting them know you're not happy with what they are doing, but you have absolutely NO RIGHT to "grab someone" just because you don't like the choices they made, right or wrong. They are not above the rules to be line jumping and you are not above the rules to be grabbing them.

 

IMO, you are actually more in the wrong here. Sorry, but you get zero sympathy or support from me.

 

We also try to educate my son on doing the right thing and have him try to understand what is going on in the world around him.

Just a thought...you should probably also educate your son that it's "not okay" to physically assault random strangers just because you personally don't agree with the actions they are taking. Probably a good life lesson in here somewhere.

Edited October 29, 2015 by robbalvey

[Physical]

In terms of line jumping, I grabbed a couple of teens at Thorpe park in the UK who were just barging through the line... It was funny getting the "you can't touch us" (minus expletives) routine from them but them not realising that the WHOLE line they had just jumped agreed with what I did, and they went from having one punter (me) manhandling them to just about everyone else shoving them out the line.

To be fair, I think physical assault is worse than line jumping. It's one thing to not like line jumpers and let the proper park staff know about it, or even to say something directly to them letting them know you're not happy with what they are doing, but you have absolutely NO RIGHT to "grab someone" just because you don't like the choices they made, right or wrong. They are not above the rules to be line jumping and you are not above the rules to be grabbing them.

 

IMO, you are actually more in the wrong here. Sorry, but you get zero sympathy or support from me.

 

We also try to educate my son on doing the right thing and have him try to understand what is going on in the world around him.

Just a thought...you should probably also educate your son that it's "not okay" to physically assault random strangers just because you personally don't agree with the actions they are taking. Probably a good life lesson in here somewhere.

 

How do you feel about physically blocking them without getting violent? Last time I was at SFGAdv with a group of people, in line for El Toro, a few people were trying to weasel their way through the queue, so we formed a "human wall" so to speak and wouldn't budge. All while talking loudly about how terrible line jumpers are. They gave up after about 5 minutes of trying to squeeze past us.

[Hilltopper39]

^I've actually seen that happens at parks more than once, it gets pretty weird.

[Jason82807]

You should never be able to have your space saved. Last September at Disneyland and Knotts the line jumpers were out of control. One family of about 8-10 weaseled their way past. Another actually apologized as he was cutting, but continued to cut.

[Jason82807]

A better way to deal with line jumpers is to take video and report them to security. I tried the non-assault Human Wall tactic at Raging Bull at SFGAm. They got kicked out, but so did I.

[SFOG1991]

It should not be allowed and most if not all major parks have a policy against it, which I appreciate.

 

Just think, if everyone decided it was ok to leave line for food/bathroom/etc or join the rest of their party that got in line earlier, there would be a constant stream of people getting in front of you and you would never ride.

 

Almost all guests completely ignore it, but I refuse to let people by, and I tell them exactly why. If they do it anyways, I have the line jumper reporting hotline in my contact list and I report them, and every single time security kicks them off the ride and sometimes out of the park. Six Flags Over Georgia is really good at responding to line jumper reports.

[Married a Canadian]

To be fair, I think physical assault is worse than line jumping. It's one thing to not like line jumpers and let the proper park staff know about it, or even to say something directly to them letting them know you're not happy with what they are doing, but you have absolutely NO RIGHT to "grab someone" just because you don't like the choices they made, right or wrong. They are not above the rules to be line jumping and you are not above the rules to be grabbing them.

 

IMO, you are actually more in the wrong here. Sorry, but you get zero sympathy or support from me.

 

Fair enough. I think saying "physical assault" is a bit strong though, I don't believe grabbing someone counts as that personally, particularly when said line jumpers had just barged through people (adults and children alike) without worrying who they are knocking out the way. The fact I did not get into trouble at the time told me that I think the GP and park security had had enough as well. Not sure how to educate my son on what is the right thing here if he is the one who has been sent flying by an overzealous line jumper (he wasn't born when this happened thankfully but I recall that other parents at the time backed me up as they couldn't explain to their children why they were being barged.I was 30 years old at the time) I will agree to disagree with you on this one point....which given that I agree with just about everything else you post (and it is your site ) I hope is fair.

 

I will ask the question though...you travel to a LOT of different countries to enjoy this hobby. Do you see a difference in how people treat the queue system, line jumpers, dealing with the "problem punters"? What places would you say handle the situation better than others? I have only visited parks in the US, Canada, France (Disneyland Paris) and my home country of the UK. Do you notice a different approach in the parks you visit worldwide?

[coasterlvr]

first, i never think it's okay to run through a line to join others. but what i also can't stand is, like at a front gate or metal detectors. multiple lines and a family will break up, when they figure out which is shorter, the other join.

 

happened to me at magic mountain this summer and dude was some agro fool. his wife and 2 of the kids were in one line, he and another kid in front. i saw him give the head nod to come over, but she said nothing but stood there waiting for me to feel her presence i guess and automatically move. then he tells me to move. so annoying.

 

line jumping in some sort pretty much happens to me or i witness it 100% of the time on my visits to SFMM. i've just become numb to it. even on ERT on Superman at WCB.

[robbalvey]

Fair enough. I think saying "physical assault" is a bit strong though

In your own words you "grabbed someone and manhandled them." That's assault. Regardless if what I might have been doing was considered right or wrong at the park, if you had grabbed me, I would have absolutely altered security and requested that charges were pressed against you. You just can't go around and physically abuse people. You have no right to do that. I don't care what the situation is. And just so you are aware, here is the definition of assault:

 

"Assault is sometimes defined as any intentional act that causes another person to fear that she is about to suffer physical harm. This definition recognizes that placing another person in fear of imminent bodily harm is itself an act deserving of punishment, even if the victim of the assault is not physically harmed.

 

In common law, assault is harmful or offensive contact with a person. An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm. It is both a crime and a tort and, therefore, may result in either criminal and/or civil liability. Generally, the common law definition is the same in criminal and tort law. There is, however, an additional criminal law category of assault consisting of an attempted but unsuccessful battery. The term is often confused with battery, which involves physical contact. The specific meaning of assault varies between countries, but can refer to an act that causes another to apprehend immediate and personal violence, or in the more limited sense of a threat of violence caused by an immediate show of force."

 

How do you feel about physically blocking them without getting violent?

Any time you take matters into your own hands with another individual you run the risk of you yourself violating rules of conduct at a park. That includes even getting verbally abusive with another guest. The *ONLY* reaction that I feel is acceptable is to let the park staff know about the situation. And that's all you can do. If you feel the immediate park staff are not handling the situation correctly, you take note of the name or names of the staff you spoke with and you go to guest relations with your issue.

 

If you feel the park is still not doing enough to remedy the situation, you stop going to the park.

 

There is just no scenario which I find that it is acceptable to be abusive towards another guest, whether it's verbally, physically, or passive aggressive. You're just in the wrong as the line jumper, and quite possibly more so. A line jumper who is going about his thing meeting up with a party, while in the wrong and those actions should not be condoned by a park, is not putting other guests in danger. But you being aggressive to that person quite possibly could do so. And I feel that is just not acceptable, sorry.

 

Two people breaking different rules doesn't make one person in the right, it means there are two idiots in the queue.

Edited October 29, 2015 by robbalvey

[coasterkid124]

I don't tolerate line jumping one bit. I don't feel like the spot saving routine should be allowed, and I hate people who enter restricted areas or hop railings to avoid empty queues. As a former ride op and mechanic, any unruly people attempting to circumvent the line in any way would get a stern warning along the lines of "Do it again and security will escort you out of the park". Sometimes if the situation escalated enough I would call security right off the bat.

 

An example was one time four 20ish year old boys skipped a whole queue in an hour long line to meet up with one friend. According to somebody behind them in line they were taking turns tagging out and doing other things around the park. When they came back they pulled the bathroom excuse. I called security immediately and they were escorted out of the line (and maybe even the park). If you let it slide they will just do it elsewhere in the park and it will cause others an inconvenience.

 

I was a little more tolerant of children, but if their parents were present they got a warning to keep their kids under control. Now as a park visitor, I won't get into verbal or physical confrontations with people, I'll just tell the ride ops when I get into the station. Once in a while I'll attempt to block anyone getting around me, but I definitely do not want to risk getting ejected from the park or my season pass revoked. I just let security or the operators handle that type stuff. Once you enter the queue, you take the unwritten agreement that you stay in line for the duration, or you exit if you need to and go to the end. If you don't use the bathroom or purchase drinks from vending machines, that's on you.

[parkjunkie]

Here's my opinion on the matter and also some knowledge.

 

First off, I would like to state that I absolutely HATE when people line jump/ skip, save places, and leave & come back. I feel once you leave a line, you start all over, and if your group is ahead of you, they can come back to you. I feel anyone who does this should be kicked out except in very rare and certain circumstances.

 

Like many on here, I've worked at a park for many years, some of those years I worked in security. Yes all parks have in their code of conducts/ rule books that state line jumping, saving places, etc is strictly prohibited and is cause for removal from the park. Usually signs are posted and announcements are made as well. I will tell you from experience that its not always as easy as it sounds to rid the problem. First off, there is no way to man every larger attraction for line monitoring, its completely out of the question and would cost a fortune to man that much security personnel. Secondly, management wants every situation looked at differently and the circumstances (which in all cases but about 1% I feel you should be kicked out). In my daily experiences with this matter, if it was someone usually under the age of 16, they would be pulled from line and usually allowed to stay in the park, but in some cases, depending if it was more than one person, such as a large group of juveniles, their demeanor, how they jumped (ducked under railings, physically pushed their way through....), if there was more than one complainant, and if the line jumpers got into a verbal or physical altercation with anyone, they would sometimes be kicked out. 99% of the time if you were over 16 and line jumped, met your group, left and came back, etc, you were asked to leave usually for the remainder of the day, but in many cases 30 days, sometimes even the remainder of the year, but that's usually because the line jumpers decided they wanted to get mouthy with security or would be non compliant.

 

There are many reasons why line jumpers should be kicked out immediately for their actions, and people usually don't think about it this way, but here's a really big reason why... Between 2007 and 2011 (5 seasons) at the park I worked at, approximately 80% of the physical altercations/ fights between guests were caused because of line jumping. People that line jump know they are doing wrong and if they get away with it, they get a big head and usually end up breaking other rules throughout the day as well.

 

I will say that you should never allow line jumping. I'm not saying to take the matter into your own hands, but tell the ride operators or a worker (if possible) about the matter and request to talk to security, they can not deny calling security when requested to. Don't get into with the line jumpers, let them be the wrong ones in every way and so that nothing can come back on you... trust me, Ive had to kick out victims of line jumping too because they wanted to take matters into their own hands. If someone physically pushes their way past you, again request security, physically pushing past people, especially those who are holding their ground to not let you pass, is technically assault.

Edited October 30, 2015 by parkjunkie

[Philrad71]

There's no exceptions IMO, if you get out of line you lose your place plain and simple. If your party got in line without you, too bad. If the line for a ride is 2hrs, everyone boarding should wait 2hrs

 

This is my feeling as well. Zero tolerance. If you, your kids, or someone in your group needs to go to the bathroom, take care of business BEFORE you get in line. If some of your party didn't get in line with you, organize yourselves BEFORE you get in line. If you have a small bladder and you bought a drink while in line and then you all-of-a-sudden need to go, you're an idiot, you shouldn't have bought a drink. If you get out of line to go to the bathroom, you shouldn't be allowed to get back in line and annoy everyone else.

 

This is how it should be EVERYWHERE, not just a theme parks.

 

But again, I hate most people and this is exactly why I don't go to parks on busy days or if I have to, I always get whatever their virtual queue system is. And if a park doesn't have a virtual queue system, I don't go to that park on a busy day.

 

100% agree with this post.

 

Anyone that waits in a line for 2+ hours for ANY ride is crazy, in my opinion.

 

The only time that I could ever, ever see myself waiting that long would be if I were to fly to another country (one in which I might never return) to ride something like a Mega-Lite or Balder.

 

I would likely wait it out, BUT...I would make damn sure that my bladder was completely empty before I ever entered the queue. And if I had to pee, I would just suck it up and hold it. And if I knew that I couldn't make it through the ride without peeing myself? Suck it up & call myself a stupid tool. leave the line, go pee and then enter the line at the beginning and try again.

[Mr.Peabody]

It should not be allowed and most if not all major parks have a policy against it, which I appreciate.

 

Just think, if everyone decided it was ok to leave line for food/bathroom/etc or join the rest of their party that got in line earlier, there would be a constant stream of people getting in front of you and you would never ride.

 

Almost all guests completely ignore it, but I refuse to let people by, and I tell them exactly why. If they do it anyways, I have the line jumper reporting hotline in my contact list and I report them, and every single time security kicks them off the ride and sometimes out of the park. Six Flags Over Georgia is really good at responding to line jumper reports.

 

Where does one find this line jumper reporting hotline? I'm hitting SFNE and Great Adventure next year and I'd like to have their numbers in my contact list as well.

[michaellynn4]

^ Not all parks have one. If they do, it might be on their website, or signs will be posted in the park.

[RAWKIN_coaster38]

I'm with everyone else when I say I hate line jumpers and think people shouldn't get out out of line and reenter, or have their friends save a space.

 

I feel a little lenient about small kids though. I don't have kids of my own so those of you who do and still go to amusement parks should be better able to speak to this, but I think a lot of kids say they don't have to go and then SUDDENLY they have to go! We had two kids pee themselves at Busch Gardens even though we were taking frequent bathroom breaks. Thankfully, neither time was on a ride or in line for a ride. But to me it's not going to ruin my time if a Mom and her kid needs to step out so her child can go pee and then come back in line. Adults, older children, and teens should be old enough to know how long they can last before a bathroom break and should use it before getting in a long line, and I still think parents should try to have their kids go before the line, but personally I feel more forgiving when it comes to little kids than teens and adults.

 

I did encounter a situation recently where I actually felt bad for some people who left line (and didn't get to come back). Twisted Colossus was only running two trains and somehow the SFMM staff were still stacking them, it was just an awfully slow line for the only ride in the park worth waiting for that day and it was super hot too. We played Heads Up with these people in front of us, and they seemed pretty cool. Well just before we were about to get on the ride after waiting almost an hour and a half, one of the girls in the group started to fall over and her friends caught her. They left the line because she was obviously ill and needed water, and I passed by them later after we had ridden and she seemed fine. Obviously I don't know her medical state so maybe it wouldn't have been good for her to come back and ride the ride, but I still felt really bad that they had waited so long and then didn't get to ride the best ride at the park.

[gerstlaueringvar]

Somehow I can understand about little kids. Because I have seen people changing diaper in the queue line. Trust me ain't nobody would prefer to see that than letting one or two extra members in.

 

But yes, people need to make sure they won't have restroom emergency before they enter the line.

[Hilltopper39]

Somehow I can understand about little kids. Because I have seen people changing diaper in the queue line. Trust me ain't nobody would prefer to see that than letting one or two extra members in.

 

But yes, people need to make sure they won't have restroom emergency before they enter the line.

 

Yeah, part of the reason I made the comments I did about Disney is because Disney might be (one of) the only places where you will have a really long line for an attraction where kids under 2 or 3 can still participate. If Twisted Colossus has a 2 hour line opening year everyone in line for that attraction should understand that and for the most part have the ability to wait it out. If The Many Adventures of Winney the Pooh has a 2 hour line on a Saturday afternoon in July, and a 2 year old has an issue that the cast members can deal with without disrupting the operation of the attraction or negatively effecting the experience of the other guests in line then that's a different scenario (to me at least).

[I305forever]

Honestly, I dont care so long as it is only 1 or 2 people. Its not lile they'll make the line that much longer.

[palmerleeberry]

If there is something I hate more that people sitting and playing on the line rails are people who think they can their way up in line, because they are (to me ) a bunch of heads. Before entering any line for any ride, I always ask myself "Am I good? I don't need to use the restroom or will get thirsty while waiting?" It's just the same as seeing how long the lines are and asking yourself if the wait time be worth the ride itself. I am proud to state that in the many, many years I've been going to amusement parks I NEVER HAVE ed in front of other people. Now I may have "bounced up" in line by the ride attendants to help fill up a car ( A situation not uncommon with me being a single rider) or used The Single Rider Line whenever it was available, but those are perfectly legal eagle scenarios and not open for public scorn and condemnations. And there was one situation in which I was with three other people, one confined to a wheelchair. we went to ride on the water rapids ride, so while one stayed with the one in the wheelchair, I and other rider went in line, so that when it became our turn to ride the two that waited on the sidelines joined us. And finally, there were times I let some people get in front of me. All of these are perfectly legal eagle.

 

But anyone who s in line should be taken out and placed to the back of the line with a sign that reads " Because I in line - I'm a head!"

 

I think that should be the next Public AD: "Stay In Your Line - Don't Be A head!!!"