CoasterGuy06 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It was mentioned earlier in the thread that four across seating is more efficient than two across seating and I would have to disagree. With just two people, checking a whole El Toro train can be done in literally 15 seconds or even less because you can smoothly hold your pace as you walk down the train checking rider's lapbars and seatbelts. However, when I would worked Bizarro the four across seating made it much harder to hold a pace as you checked restraints since you would have to walk out and in of the cars. Even if you really hustled, there would always be a brief pause between checking restraints every two seats. Haven't been to Great Adventure, but if they have you checking your B&M's like the Six Flags parks I have been to check their B&M rides your checks are inefficient. If you are running with two attendants one should start on row 1 and one row 8 and check all four seats until you meet, theoretically in the middle as I have seen other parks do (Dominator at KD, for example.). That way even if you get held up by a guest your seats can still get checked fairly quickly. Yes there is still a brief pause as you switch rows, but an average of four pauses every for four rows is better than eight pauses every two seats. Nothing is more frustrating than seeing the loading side of a train fully checked and ready to go while waiting on the unload side to be done because one guest took forever to get in their seat, as is the case on B:TR on almost every visit I make to SFOG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajfelice Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Due to Six Flags' strict crossing procedure, the ride can not be checked by having one operator check an entire row. Technically once an operator cross past the midway point of the train they would be in violation of crossing procedure. Technically once an operator cross past the midway point of the train they would be in violation of crossing procedure. This is not a Six Flags knock, but a knock for many major parks/chains who implement this policy. As an Operations Manager myself, I find these procedures to be absolutely asinine in most cases. In my opinion, if a guest can safely walk through a train, why can't an employee? I have never seen or heard of a crossing incident when an employee crosses through a train in a safe manner. The train should never be attempted to be dispatched at this time since the ride operators at the control panel and station dispatch panel should see that not every ride operator is in position. Theoretically, a train can be dispatched as guests are crossing through as well. Seeing ride operators stand on one side of the train wasting time attempting to signal main controls for permission to cross is causing a ride to lose capacity when that operator could easily pass through an empty row or through a floored train. Jumping track, crossing through gaps between cars, or stepping through track while trains are in motion is a whole different ballgame/policy. Rant Over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Mutts Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Magnum at CP has a pretty good capacity when it is running 3 trains however the fastest dispatches Ive seen was on the Phoenix, no seat belts or a gate along with buzz bars really speeds things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Toro_Ryan Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 This is not a Six Flags knock, but a knock for many major parks/chains who implement this policy. As an Operations Manager myself, I find these procedures to be absolutely asinine in most cases. In my opinion, if a guest can safely walk through a train, why can't an employee? I have never seen or heard of a crossing incident when an employee crosses through a train in a safe manner. The train should never be attempted to be dispatched at this time since the ride operators at the control panel and station dispatch panel should see that not every ride operator is in position. Theoretically, a train can be dispatched as guests are crossing through as well. Seeing ride operators stand on one side of the train wasting time attempting to signal main controls for permission to cross is causing a ride to lose capacity when that operator could easily pass through an empty row or through a floored train. Jumping track, crossing through gaps between cars, or stepping through track while trains are in motion is a whole different ballgame/policy. Rant Over. I completely agree with you. I've wasted loads of time attempting to cross a train at El Toro simply because the operator was focused on the rest of the station and could not see my cross signal. In order to cross, we would practically have to yell to the operator to get his or her attention. While the cross signals do promote safety, they definitely are not necessary. Like you said, all attendants must be in their safety zones before a train can be dispatched and with the visual scan we use at Six Flags parks, it's highly unlikely a train will ever be dispatched with an attendant outside their safety zone. Several rides have dispatch buttons that each and every attendant must press in order for a train to dispatch. At GADV, I know both Nitro and Bizarro utilize this system. However, most rides just have a second panel that one attendant must use in coordination with the operator in order to dispatch a train. But even with this system, it's highly unlikely a train would ever dispatched with an attendant outside their zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Magnum at CP has a pretty good capacity when it is running 3 trains however the fastest dispatches Ive seen was on the Phoenix, no seat belts or a gate along with buzz bars really speeds things up. Phoenix is flat out ridiculous. When the ride runs 2 trains they always end up standing around forever before sending the train just so it won't block stop on the lift since it's usually checked and ready while the train on the circuit is just cresting or still on it's way up the lift. With one train it's amazing to watch. As you suggested the combination of a ton of ops, no seat belts, buzz bars, no gates and great ops makes for loading times that rarely exceed 30 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprint390g Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Oblivion at Alton Towers has a pretty good dispatch with 1,600 rph ( I think) despite not haveing a high capacity. But the stacking is horrendous, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJeXeL Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Well when the circuit only consists of Lift-Drop-Turn-Brakes, stacking is a given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singforfood Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 YOLO's capacity is so bad that I can't believe anyone from Six Flags actually greenlit the ride. Also, someone from Premier done goofed big time on the unloading side of the station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJeXeL Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 ^The parks design the station and queue lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFMMGeek27 Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 YOLO's capacity is so bad that I can't believe anyone from Six Flags actually greenlit the ride. Also, someone from Premier done goofed big time on the unloading side of the station. What's wrong with the unload station? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJeXeL Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 It's a little cramped but manageable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
singforfood Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 YOLO's capacity is so bad that I can't believe anyone from Six Flags actually greenlit the ride. Also, someone from Premier done goofed big time on the unloading side of the station. What's wrong with the unload station? Several things that happen all in tandem... 1. The unloading side is very small. About 1/4 the size of the loading side, and just slightly wider than 2-abreast trains themselves. 2. The exit is at the rear of the station 3. The 2 loose article bins (not pictured) run pretty much the whole length of the station (front half for train 1, back half for train 2), and are situated on the floor, narrowing the walking space even more. What happens is... riders get off and those who had no loose article start walking immediately to the back of the station to exit, while those who did are blocking the aisle as they stand at the bin to dig through and find their items. OR... They're actually walking against the flow of people exiting to get to their stuff before turning around and walking back to the exit (at which time, the new set of riders has started entering and heading to the bins themselves). The first time I rode it, I was literally cringing as I watched it unfold in front of me. There's about 6 feet worth of space at the back of the loading side that is almost never used for the queue, while people were constantly bumping each other or being blocked from moving on the unload side because there wasn't enough space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buck funny Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Olympia looping was pretty fast. They have 7 car trains for oktoberfest and run 5 cars for the smaller fairs. They had a ride op for each row, and they help you out and get the new passengers in quickly. They can launch a new train every 30 seconds, so 120 trains/hr x 14 ppl = 1680 riders/ hr. they also charge you 8.50 euros, so 14,280.00 euro/ hr ( 14.280,00 in german writing) I never had to wait more than 2 trains to ride There are about 4 block sections on the track, plus a bunch of separate holding brakes leading up to the station. They have 5 trains, but the most used when i was there was 4. A fun fact i discovered when playing with no limits is that in a coaster with many trains and blocks, each subsequent block section should take the same or slightly less time to travel through or the trains will start to back up. (i made a schwarzkopf tribute portable giga coaster. 80m high with 8 loops and 12 trains running at a time. My laptop heats up and the internal fan comes on when i run it!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcdude Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Several things that happen all in tandem... 1. The unloading side is very small. About 1/4 the size of the loading side, and just slightly wider than 2-abreast trains themselves. 2. The exit is at the rear of the station 3. The 2 loose article bins (not pictured) run pretty much the whole length of the station (front half for train 1, back half for train 2), and are situated on the floor, narrowing the walking space even more. What happens is... riders get off and those who had no loose article start walking immediately to the back of the station to exit, while those who did are blocking the aisle as they stand at the bin to dig through and find their items. OR... They're actually walking against the flow of people exiting to get to their stuff before turning around and walking back to the exit (at which time, the new set of riders has started entering and heading to the bins themselves). Full Throttle has one of the worst loose item configurations I've seen anywhere. Each of the two bins should have two compartments: one for each train. Just the delay from people fighting traffic in the station to deposit and collect loose articles probably adds a good 20 seconds or so to loading times. I've seen several Cedar Fair parks use split bins and it's probably the most effective loose article system, so it's a shame SFMM didn't go for something similar. Full Throttle has a theoretical capacity of 800 riders per hour, which is okay but still a bit low for a major park, but I don't believe it has ever gotten close to that number (I'm guessing at best the ride got close to 600 per hour). From what I've heard, ever since the seatbelts were added the ride's only been doing 300-400 riders per hour, which is far too low for a major park like SFMM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superbatboy Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I never realized Yolo's capacity was that bad, so I'm assuming the waits were reaching 2-3 hours these past two summers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Toro_Ryan Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Does anyone know if the original plan for YOLO coaster was to run more than two trains? I remember seeing two trains on the track at the same time in the concept art. Also I think Premier screwed up the holding brake location as well. I always thought it was ridiculous the train waiting in the brake run is around a turn and then has to wait for the train being dispatched to clear the loop before it can advance. It's a total waste of time and capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TNT Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcjp Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 ^True, but I think his point is it could have been done differently. They could, for example, make the launch track start outside the station so that the train on the brakes could move into the station just as the other one was dispatched. if it rolled back, it would stop in the end of the launch track - just ahead of the other train. Either that or doing it so that as soon as one train cleared the loop the other would start entering the station and not have to go round a turn before doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comeagain? Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 Or at least not have to make a 180 degree turn before the station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcjp Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 ^They could also have the train stopping on the turn but I've heard somewhere that the drive tires on that section aren't powerful enough to get the train moving from a complete stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJeXeL Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 I seem to vaguely remember that when FT opened, the 2nd train parked at station approach instead of the Main brake/transfer. Maybe I'm mistaken.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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