Password121 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 ^Ive thought about the same thing, and while none of this is confirmed, I think I have a good idea as to why... Six Flags was undergoing major changes in management around the time El Toro was installed. Shapiro was taking over at the time, and he wanted to emphasize families over thrill-seekers, meaning themed family attractions over multi million dollar coasters. I've heard he even tried to cancel the project before it was built, but the contracts were already signed, so El Toro was built. With El Toro built right off the heels of Kingda Ka, Premier had planned to make Great Adventure a destination park with even more new themed areas and multi-million dollar coasters. I can only imagin what the park would be if this plan had lasted even one year longer. Much of this information I learned from GreatAdventureHistory.com (although I think you're already on that site, haha). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boldikus Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 ^ Makes sense. Like I said, for such a great and highly regarded coaster, it amazes me there aren't more of them elsewhere, even within other chains (Cedar Fair, Busch etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcdude Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 Totally off topic but relative to the park: I'm just curious about this and figured someone here would likely have some insight. Was there ever any plans or even hints that SF would clone El Toro or that they had plans to install other Plug N Plays at other SF parks? Obviously their current relationship with RMC is the reason they aren't installing other PNPs NOW but after Toro opened to such success was there ever any plans to keep installing more PNPs elsewhere? Again, just curious. It baffles me that its generally considered the best woodie on the planet, and the only Plug N Play in the U.S (and one of only 4 in the world). Speaking of Toro, anyone aware of any GOOD backseat POV's of the ride? There are plenty but all hand held and shakey and generally crappy. Ive always felt front seat POVs, which there are plenty of decent ones, never do the ride justice. The way it slowly, hangs over the drop, etc, it just doesn't capture the height and general extremeness of the ride. I would love to see a great back seat POV filmed with a mounted cam and with riders on the train. Maybe Robb has one and he's holding out on us? LOL OK carry on... I doubt SF has any plans to build more Plug N Plays because they are very expensive. GADV never released an official price tag for Toro but the maintenance guys at the ride have told me it was about 28 million which is ALOT. Especially for a wooden coaster. I don't doubt that an Intamin woodie costs more than a standard wooden coaster, but given that Balder was $10 million (according to RCDB) that amount seems way high (it's about the price tag of a B&M Giga). I've always thought El Toro was about $15 million, which is still a lot for a wooden coaster (for reference, Voyage opened the same year and was $8.5 million and the RMC's have been about $10 million so far). In addition to the high price tag, I'm guessing Six Flags's relationship with Intamin probably had something to do with the lack of others being built, as well as the change in direction the company was taking in the late 2000s. Given the existence of RMC and the limited amount Six Flags can spend on any new addition, I highly doubt there will ever be another Intamin woodie in the chain (and given Cedar Fair's relationship with Intamin, I wouldn't be surprised if there's never another one in the US). One other possible factor could be the restrictiveness of the ride, as El Toro is definitely the most restrictive coaster I've been on. When I visited the park this summer, it seemed like every train had someone who was either too big to ride or who needed significant effort to get the bar down. I know people who have gotten on every coaster at Cedar Point yet couldn't fit on El Toro. I've even had to be rechecked on the ride a few times, and I'm only a little bigger than average. I don't know that this would have much to do with a decision not to purchase more, but I could definitely see it being a factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boldikus Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 One other possible factor could be the restrictiveness of the ride, as El Toro is definitely the most restrictive coaster I've been on. When I visited the park this summer, it seemed like every train had someone who was either too big to ride or who needed significant effort to get the bar down. I know people who have gotten on every coaster at Cedar Point yet couldn't fit on El Toro. I've even had to be rechecked on the ride a few times, and I'm only a little bigger than average. I don't know that this would have much to do with a decision not to purchase more, but I could definitely see it being a factor. This is a great point that I didn't even consider. I got 27 laps on Toro in 2014 (throughout the year) and 95% of those rides I saw at least one walk of shame while waiting to board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolliger&Swagillard Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 One other possible factor could be the restrictiveness of the ride, as El Toro is definitely the most restrictive coaster I've been on. When I visited the park this summer, it seemed like every train had someone who was either too big to ride or who needed significant effort to get the bar down. I know people who have gotten on every coaster at Cedar Point yet couldn't fit on El Toro. I've even had to be rechecked on the ride a few times, and I'm only a little bigger than average. I don't know that this would have much to do with a decision not to purchase more, but I could definitely see it being a factor. This is a great point that I didn't even consider. I got 27 laps on Toro in 2014 (throughout the year) and 95% of those rides I saw at least one walk of shame while waiting to board. I've never had experience on El Toro where someone had to leave the ride because of his/hers build. In my opinion, Batman: The Ride is a pretty restrictive ride, even for me. Last season I saw about 4 people on one train get denied. My father is a pretty large dude, but he made it just fine on El Toro and Batman. I think it varies on the way the person is sitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro1118 Posted February 18, 2015 Share Posted February 18, 2015 One other possible factor could be the restrictiveness of the ride, as El Toro is definitely the most restrictive coaster I've been on. When I visited the park this summer, it seemed like every train had someone who was either too big to ride or who needed significant effort to get the bar down. I know people who have gotten on every coaster at Cedar Point yet couldn't fit on El Toro. I've even had to be rechecked on the ride a few times, and I'm only a little bigger than average. I don't know that this would have much to do with a decision not to purchase more, but I could definitely see it being a factor. To dig a little deeper, I think you have to look at the meaning behind the ride's restrictions...accidents. Since the early-mid '00's there has been a very steep decline in Intamin additions at SF parks (US parks in general, too). A lot of it has to do with the list of accidents they have had, which is a dangerous risk in a sue-happy country like the US. Add to that the reliability factor with some of their cutting edge technology, along with SF's new direction of cutting cost, and it isn't too surprising we haven't seen much Intamin the last couple of years at SF parks. With that said, I do believe if Toro was built 2-3 years earlier, we would have seen 1 or 2 more Plug N Play's pop up throughout the chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Toro_Ryan Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 The proposed Six Flags park in Dubai was rumored to feature a Plug N Play back when it was first announced. I don't know if the park is still being built or not, but it was supposed to feature a clone of El Toro or a nearly identical version. You can see the ride in the lower right corner. Image from parkthoughts.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagnumFreak25 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Am I the only one who thinks that would be one of the best six flags parks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonGeorge Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 I love how the proposed prefab even seems to have the same finale as El Toro. I remember hearing about this park and even seeing more of that amazing concept art. Wasn't this park also supposed to have the first B&M giga coaster? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcjp Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 ^It was supposed to have the tallest, I think. I don't know if it'll be built or not but it would have an amazing collection of coasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boldikus Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 That park does look pretty awesome, thanks for that, Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassinthegrass Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Fronted City just announced they TOO are getting a Larsons SuperLoop... Am I missing something? Why are these flying off the shelves this year?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FaithPlus1 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Fronted City just announced they TOO are getting a Larsons SuperLoop... Am I missing something? Why are these flying off the shelves this year?!?! Because they take one day to install and you can call is a roller coaster. In addition, you can simply back a truck up to the trailer it sits on, hook it up, and move it wherever you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Toro_Ryan Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 That park does look pretty awesome, thanks for that, Ryan. No Problem. The park hours for the year are up. https://www.sixflags.com/greatadventure/plan-your-visit/park-operating-schedule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoasterGuy06 Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Because they take one day to install and you can call is a roller coaster. In addition, you can simply back a truck up to the trailer it sits on, hook it up, and move it wherever you want. These are park models. They aren't that easy to move around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrygator Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Fronted City just announced they TOO are getting a Larsons SuperLoop... Am I missing something? Why are these flying off the shelves this year?!?! Larson must be offering a great price or they recently hired an awesome sales team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boldikus Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 The park hours for the year are up. https://www.sixflags.com/greatadventure/plan-your-visit/park-operating-schedule I like that they went with the calender view instead of that list they had last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I wish the park would go back to the old system of listing their Fright Fest hours and then extending closing time to midnight when they're busy rather than saying they close at Midnight and then closing all the rides early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Password121 Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 I wish the park would go back to the old system of listing their Fright Fest hours and then extending closing time to midnight when they're busy rather than saying they close at Midnight and then closing all the rides early. Not to fanboy it up here, but Cedar Point's system really is the best. Closing the lines at (or even after) closing and eating through the group of die-hards waiting for one last night ride is the way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boldikus Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Friday April 24th: Coasters After Dark! So happy they are doing this again, hoping the weather works out just the way it did last year. We had the place to ourselves for 3 hours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterbill Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Not to fanboy it up here, but Cedar Point's system really is the best. Closing the lines at (or even after) closing and eating through the group of die-hards waiting for one last night ride is the way to go. Absolutely. Cedar Point's policy is excellent. They wait about 10 minutes on just about every major ride, even rides like Iron Dragon get a grace period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJeXeL Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 ^Agreed. I remember when I went to CP back in '07 and we walked into Dragster's queue 10 minutes after posted park closing time. Great guest service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrygator Posted February 20, 2015 Share Posted February 20, 2015 Not to fanboy it up here, but Cedar Point's system really is the best. Closing the lines at (or even after) closing and eating through the group of die-hards waiting for one last night ride is the way to go. Absolutely. Cedar Point's policy is excellent. They wait about 10 minutes on just about every major ride, even rides like Iron Dragon get a grace period. Cedar Point also has the benefit so many workers living in dorms. Easier to keep the employees if they don't have to commute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Toro_Ryan Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 Not to fanboy it up here, but Cedar Point's system really is the best. Closing the lines at (or even after) closing and eating through the group of die-hards waiting for one last night ride is the way to go. Absolutely. Cedar Point's policy is excellent. They wait about 10 minutes on just about every major ride, even rides like Iron Dragon get a grace period. Cedar Point also has the benefit so many workers living in dorms. Easier to keep the employees if they don't have to commute. Yeah, GADV only gives housing to its international workers. In other news somewhat related to workers, the neon yellow uniforms are supposed to be replaced by all new blue uniforms this year so be on the lookout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastKid Posted February 21, 2015 Share Posted February 21, 2015 In other news somewhat related to workers, the neon yellow uniforms are supposed to be replaced by all new blue uniforms this year so be on the lookout. Yes!! Finally!! That is definitely a step in the right direction. Those neon shirts were so terrible, and they just looked so unprofessional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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