Six Flags [FUN] Corporate Discussion Thread

[Ed Farmer]

...the last modern steel roller coaster to be installed in almost 20 years.

But don't forget about reversing the trains on Freeze!

 

There is something about putting it that way that really sums SFStL up.

[DBJ]

The one thing I found really odd about the additions for 2017 was the duplicating of the names. For example, I think Wonder Woman: Lasso of Truth, actually fits none of the rides it is attached too. Just very, very odd. It is like they saw that her character in the movie was well received, so they need to get that name into the park, no matter if it made sense in relation to the attraction or not.

 

Generally, I think most of the additions are good choices for their respective parks. However, with the Disk'o, I think they should always opt for the "coaster" version when it comes time to clone it into the other parks. There are many attractions in that Zamperla catalogue that would be nice to see in the parks.

 

Looking forward to them putting in more water coasters chain wide. All of their water parks can benefit from that design.

 

With the cloning of the attraction types, I hope they look at working with a partner on the flying theater style of attractions as well. For the parks where the live entertainment just has never taken off, like SFMM for example, it would be a nice a/c indoor attraction for them that operates year round.

 

And lastly, I do appreciate their continued affiliation with warner brothers. Maybe tap into other film franchises for their attractions, like Mad Max: Fury Road? Great name for a coaster imo.

[RaceBoarder]

There is one thing that I'm curious about going forward and I haven't really seen it addressed yet:

 

Was this cycle of clones a one time thing or do they start a new 3-5 year cycle of clones in 2018?

 

Going forward this has some interesting consequences, with the biggest, IMO, being a homogenization of SF parks. You can make a case either way on this. Obviously us enthusiasts see this differently than Steve GP from Atlanta or Frank GP from Chicago who only see what happens at their respective parks.

 

Only time will tell I suppose.

[schoup]

There is one thing that I'm curious about going forward and I haven't really seen it addressed yet:

 

Was this cycle of clones a one time thing or do they start a new 3-5 year cycle of clones in 2018?

 

Going forward this has some interesting consequences, with the biggest, IMO, being a homogenization of SF parks. You can make a case either way on this. Obviously us enthusiasts see this differently than Steve GP from Atlanta or Frank GP from Chicago who only see what happens at their respective parks.

 

Only time will tell I suppose.

 

SF corporate when the 1st added 4D's in hyping them mentioned how there the kind of ride every park should have. I don't think every park will get one, but they could be like Skyscreamers, 10 park have them. Expect to see more of them b/c they are great hype in local press for the parks with the notion of 4D. Also, non SF parks don't have them, fit into DC theme easily and they are cheap coaster at 7M. I also think there will be more Justice Leagues thought 7 parks have then come 2017. I think more Zamperla's Discoveries are coming, they are a great flat ride. It would be nice if they made some the Revolution model.

 

My own personal clone list would be for more than 1 park to have a Zamperla Endeavour, like 5 and the ones that don't get that give them a Huss Enterprise 2GH or 2GH Plus. Give maybe 5 parks a Zamperla Hawk and Gmbh Sky Roller or Sky Fly to 4 parks each

[larrygator]

The one thing I found really odd about the additions for 2017 was the duplicating of the names. For example, I think Wonder Woman: Lasso of Truth, actually fits none of the rides it is attached too. Just very, very odd. It is like they saw that her character in the movie was well received, so they need to get that name into the park, no matter if it made sense in relation to the attraction or not.

 

I'm not saying I agree with the choice of name, but a lasso is circular and the rides have a circular shape/rotation to them. Personally, I wold have preferred using WW:Flight School for the StarFlyer. As someone recently stated the chain is paying over $3 million annually for the IP, so they might as well maximize the use. Also, DC has to approve each name use. I haven't researched the upcoming Wonder Woman movie, but if the rides use "Lasso of Truth" I would venture that "Lasso of Truth" might be used in the marketing of the movie. Also, even before the movie with the Wonder Woman character, I have noticed girls wearing more Wonder Woman capes/merchandise. Lastly, get ahead of the curve, before someone protests there no no rides named after women.

Edited September 7, 2016 by larrygator

[Superbatboy]

Someone said that Six Flags pays 3.3 million a year for the use of DC comics, I'd be getting my money's worth too!

[CaptainCrush]

Someone said that Six Flags pays 3.3 million a year for the use of DC comics, I'd be getting my money's worth too!

 

Right? Milk it for all it's worth! I remember at Six Flags in MD even the BATHROOMS were themed to DC Comics. They were inside the "Gotham City Police Department". If that's not a tounge-in-cheek joke towards law enforcement, I don't know what is!

 

But yeah Six Flags, get your money! Might as well slap some names onto the food items like "Harley Quinn's Chicken Tenders" or "Green Lantern's Southwest Salad"

[coasterbill]

After the last 2 posts it's obviously trolling so I'm out of here.

[DirkFunk]

You can;t refute it b/c even a SFGAm fangirl like you knows it's likely what SF will do. You are just such a fangirl and the sucker SF depends on.

 

Can I make a suggestion? Stop going. Do something else. You can tone the anger down a little and say the things you want in a different, more constructive fashion. This? This isn't helping you.

[schoup]

After the last 2 posts it's obviously trolling so I'm out of here.

 

You mean presenting facts you don't like and can't refute

[cfc]

How is he not banned yet?

 

He is now. And I'm cleaning up this thread of both his stupidity and the stupidity of others.

 

EDIT: I just removed three more posts regarding the banned guy. I have no desire to do this again today. Let it go. Thank you.

Edited September 30, 2016 by cfc

[RollingCoasting]

Just a heads up, this is likely not the last you'll see of him. He got IP banned on another board so he created a new account on another device presumably (Or changed his IP) .

 

So yeah, If someone named "bbd" registers, its probably him

[eugjackson]

Six Flags Posts Surprise Decline in Revenue, Hurt by Adverse Weather

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/six-flags-posts-surprise-decline-in-revenue-hurt-by-adverse-weather-1477485031

[eugjackson]

Six Flags Posts Surprise Decline in Revenue, Hurt by Adverse Weather

 

http://www.wsj.com/articles/six-flags-posts-surprise-decline-in-revenue-hurt-by-adverse-weather-1477485031

Revenue fell 3% to $557.6 million. Analysts had projected a profit of $1.65 a share on $586.4 million in revenue, according to Thomson Reuters.

 

 

http://www4.toledoblade.com/Retail/2016/11/02/Cedar-Fair-reports-175-million-quarterly-profit-record-revenues.html

SANDUSKY — Cedar Fair said today it set a new revenue record on its way to a $175 million profit in the year’s third quarter. The company also announced a 4 percent increase in its quarterly dividend.

 

The company, which operates Cedar Point and a string of amusement and water parks across the country, said third quarter revenues were up about 1 percent to $650 million. The $175 million profit translates to $3.10 a share. In 2015, Cedar Fair earned $164 million or $2.92 a share

 

Is SF loss in revenue really all about weather or mix of a possible warning signs of underlying problems? CF was able to do well in attendance in the same quarter and operate in most of the same regions. The places SF is that are different are in the south, TX, GA, etc.. which I don't recall having significant weather issues this summer.

[ytterbiumanalyst]

This was the hottest summer ever. When you think weather, you usually think rain. But when it's unbearably hot, people don't want to be outside let alone in a place with no trees waiting in long, uncovered queues. Here in Missouri we had several days over 100, and farther south there were temperatures into the 110s.

[boldikus]

I'm not surprised. The heat was the #1 reason I avoided all parks not named Morey's this entire summer. Need that ocean breeze...

[El Toro_Ryan]

This was the hottest summer ever. When you think weather, you usually think rain. But when it's unbearably hot, people don't want to be outside let alone in a place with no trees waiting in long, uncovered queues. Here in Missouri we had several days over 100, and farther south there were temperatures into the 110s.

 

I couldn't agree more. Attendance at GADV was awful this Summer due to the extreme heat. It was much better last year.

[coasterbill]

I can't wait until Thursday, so here's an early Throwback Thursday to the Q4 Conference call that took place earlier this year...

 

Well, Barton, we have always said that unless there's some major hurricane or something coming through, we will not use weather either as a positive or a negative. We focus on the operational performance. And I would say that people are focused, let's say, on what is perceived to be better weather on the East Coast here or the West Coast there. But remember that last year, especially in Texas, early on in the year and later on in the year, it was horrendous weather, really bad weather that impacted not only our parks, but many businesses. And so our view is pretty simple. Weather tends to even out over an entire year. And whilst there were these up and downs here and there, it really was very similar to prior years overall.

 

Now, were we grateful that we didn't have any major storms hitting our parks right at the end of the year? Of course. And could that affect future years? Yes, it could. But we have a very diversified portfolio of parks, and as we add more parks, that really helps to further diversify and minimize the effect of weather. So it's one of those things where we've consistently said the same thing, as do our other competitors in the industry, and I truly believe that to be a case.

 

John, would you disagree?

 

- James W. P. Reid-Anderson - Chairman, President & Chief Executive Officer

 

No, I wouldn't disagree at all.

 

- John M. Duffey - Chief Financial Officer

 

... good times, good times

 

[eugjackson]

This was the hottest summer ever. When you think weather, you usually think rain. But when it's unbearably hot, people don't want to be outside let alone in a place with no trees waiting in long, uncovered queues. Here in Missouri we had several days over 100, and farther south there were temperatures into the 110s.

 

 

Already checked not much different than 2015. Also, warm weather drives Water Park attendance, which SF has more WP's than CF. Per in park patron spending down for SF, up for CF. The 2 parks in OT and GA, not regions CF is in would not account for the level of decrease in revenue The more you research the weather excuse doesn't hold water.

[DirkFunk]

Both chains have pretty lofty goals as far as growth is concerned. Also most people still don't read these things for comprehension. From the actual CF press release:

 

Adjusted EBITDA for the third quarter was $336 million, down $10 million, or 3%, when compared with the same period last year. The decrease in Adjusted EBITDA during the third quarter of 2016 was the direct result of an extended period of record high heat during the last half of July and first half of August across the majority of the regions in which the Company operates. This resulted in a shortfall in attendance and a shift in consumer spending away from the amusement parks to the Company's water parks, where guests historically have spent less. A shorter average length of stay also occurred at the Company's parks during this period due to the record heat and humidity.

 

Overall, year vs. year, EBITDA is less than 1% off from 2015. Revenue is growing but only keeping pace with increased expenses. Six Flags has a similar story right now.

[xstech25]

If you have a big theme park with 10+ coasters and water park, are the only amusement park in the whole market of 6 million people, and you are selling season passes for $60 a person...you might have a problem with your business model.

 

Not saying a business with low gate price and a million upsells can't be profitable (Spirit is usually one of the most profitable airlines), but it is an extremely risky way to run a business because your customers are hooked on price. Once the price of season passes goes up people will stop buying, waiting for the deal. They really have to upsell the dining plans, Flash Passes, and whatever else because there is no way they are making money from people buying season passes and just going there and hanging out.

[DirkFunk]

If you have a big theme park with 10+ coasters and water park, are the only amusement park in the whole market of 6 million people, and you are selling season passes for $60 a person...you might have a problem with your business model.

 

Not saying a business with low gate price and a million upsells can't be profitable (Spirit is usually one of the most profitable airlines), but it is an extremely risky way to run a business because your customers are hooked on price. Once the price of season passes goes up people will stop buying, waiting for the deal. They really have to upsell the dining plans, Flash Passes, and whatever else because there is no way they are making money from people buying season passes and just going there and hanging out.

 

Six Flags is actually doing better than Cedar Fair in FY 2016. Both had nearly identical 3% drops in EBITDA last quarter attributed to the same reason. People just read the headlines.

[coasterbill]

It always amazes me how when a major park chain announces a disappointing quarter, people rush in to attribute it to whatever they personally don't like about the parks or whatever they personally think is a poor business model even though those things have generally been in place for years and in many cases were in place during highly successful periods.

 

I don't really want to hate on xstech25, it's not like what you're saying is all that crazy, especially when compared to much of what's been said online in the last 24 hours (The drop is because the parks keep building clones... no new RMC's... sh*t like that). Their model of selling season passes at ridiculously low price points and up-selling people on everything else has been in place for decades though, including some which have been very successful. I can't possibly see that being an issue.

 

Lucky for Six Flags, Q4 is almost guaranteed to show massive attendance growth with the addition of Holiday in the Park at Six Flags America and Six Flags St. Louis. While any investor with half a brain knows this will happen, it does give them a reason to beat their chests and get some headlines about their record attendance when it comes time to release the Q4 results. They milked it for all it was worth last year when they added Holiday in the Park to Great Adventure, obviously increasing attendance dramatically.

[xstech25]

I don't think one earnings miss is that big of a deal (especially when its analyst estimates and not company estimates). However you say the business model has been in place for decades I want to point out that the season pass price right now is the same that it was back when I bought my season pass in like 1995. That's 20 years with the same price. Many people are literally paying the same amount of money at Six Flags parks in 2016 that they did in 1995. And a lot of the parks didn't have water parks back then. While flashpass and VIP tours were not around back then, and food wasn't as expensive, SF should have been able to add these things and raise season pass price like every other company has done.

 

I'm not complaining, I am an equal opportunity consumer of theme park experiences, i'm just pointing out the obvious. Prices of ride parts go up, labor and medical costs go up, prices of supplies go up. SF has had to make up for it by going all Spirit Airlines and it's very obvious (and annoying) seeing commercials and advertisements all over the place.

 

I will also add I don't think their management at the corporate level now is as bone headed as it was back in 2000-2006. That really started the cycle I think they still suffer from today.

 

This should not be necessary for a park to increase profits IMO.

Edited November 3, 2016 by xstech25

[larrygator]

I don't think one earnings miss is that big of a deal (especially when its analyst estimates and not company estimates). However you say the business model has been in place for decades I want to point out that the season pass price right now is the same that it was back when I bought my season pass in like 1995. That's 20 years with the same price. Many people are literally paying the same amount of money at Six Flags parks in 2016 that they did in 1995. And a lot of the parks didn't have water parks back then. While flashpass and VIP tours were not around back then, and food wasn't as expensive, SF should have been able to add these things and raise season pass price like every other company has done.

 

I'm not complaining, I am an equal opportunity consumer of theme park experiences, i'm just pointing out the obvious. Prices of ride parts go up, labor and medical costs go up, prices of supplies go up. SF has had to make up for it by going all Spirit Airlines and it's very obvious (and annoying) seeing commercials and advertisements all over the place.

 

I will also add I don't think their management at the corporate level now isn't as bone headed as it was back in 2000-2006. That really started the cycle I think they still suffer from today.

 

I have been saying the same thing for years. While I enjoy my SF season pass price, I think CF has a more sustainable business model with it's higher price. And SF has done a great job upselling especially with the Meal Pass. I think my season pass may actually be cheaper than it was about ten years ago, when SFGAdv did charge considerable more than the other SF parks.