senna Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Oh ok, sorry I have no idea how it works in the usa. In the uk we have local councils but it seems to be the main country fund that helps out a company that needs help. As I said though the knock on effect from Six Flags going would be bad, to many other small firms that need them would fail. Think of all the hotels that would shut. I do think they will be ok. They might have to close some of their smaller parks and keep the main ones open. Most countries at the moment have this top 10 list of firms expected to close down, even where I work was on the list and we have been told to ignore it as its rubbish. But 5 firms on that list have already gone bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkTrips Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 No way will a company like SIX get government funds. They are merely an entertainment operation, with several alternatives and little impact on the government's bottom line and the economy as a whole. Has anyone else heard about the price of oil going up due to the possiblilty that the stimulus package may go thru? Remember last time gas seriously shot up? It was right when people started getting the stimulus checks. Which coincided with the beginning of summer and higher demand, which shot out of control due to speculators. That's why it went up, not because people got a few hundred bucks back from the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senna Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Its going up in the uk as well, from 83p to 88p in a week. Sorry just one last thing about Six Flags. In a way if they go bust it will have an impact on the economy for the reasons I said before. People will not visit the areas and this will have a knock on effect. Look how many people from the usa and other countries just do theme park holidays, many areas will suffer if the parks go. I still dont know how they do their pass so cheap, Merlin in the uk chrage £150 for theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParkTrips Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 But how many go to Six Flags parks? Lots to Disney and Universal, very few to Six Flags. It wouldn't hurt us too bad in the tourism industry, and there are other alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senna Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Yes good point there I suppose as we like theme parks we tend to know about the other parks such as Six Flags, where as holiday makers just know of Disney etc. Before I joined coaster groups I had no idea of half that theme parks that were around. But you can bet a lot of people know about Magic Mountain, when I was 10 its was always the place that was on tv and in films. But thats like 1 park out of 20 or whatever the number is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWill961 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Wouldn't the fact that Six Flags MM continues to have plans for new rollercoasters (one being Terminator, even the CEO says there will be a new ride for 2010--to take back the rollercoaster record in a park) indicate good news? I hope that if Six Flags goes down, MM stays in tact. I'd hate it if they fucked that park over. Seriously. Start liquidating all the other parks and rides, just not MM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBannedKid Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Those projects have been in the making for some time now, probably before the economy took a nose dive. The current SFMM projects don't necessarily mean Six Flags is doing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWill961 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 It seems like the typical mistakes on Six Flags' part then, to go through on their plans even if times get bad. Not great management if that is the case. They should halt all their plans and productions so they can get this right. For me, I think that having plans for 2010/2011 indicates some good news, at least for the park itself. Perhaps SF has no intention on getting rid of MM; that's what I personally think. The fact that they intend to continue their lavish constructions for this theme park gives me the sense that they're not too worried with their whole financial situation. I do hope MM takes back the crown they relinquished to Cedar Point, in 2010 or 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanlv Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Everyone seems to miss the point here in my opinion. This company has turned around quite a bit. The only reason they may not make it is because of the credit markets. The current management inherited over $2 billion in debt and the company has huge repayments to make. Up until now they have been able to restructure this debt and reduce it. If not for the interest payments, Six Flags would make a hefty profit. The current management has been prudent in picking new attractions that are a lot more cost effective for the company. A park like Magic Mountain makes a lot of money and thus supports the decision to spend $10 million on a new attraction. In my opinion Shapiro has done a great job (from a business sense) finding extra sources of revenue like in park advertising and licensing deals which totaled over $60 million last year I believe. While it is true the only reason they were cash flow positive was because they didn't pay their PIERS dividend, the fact that they even came close to making a profit is a miracle considering where the company was 3 or 4 years ago. No one knows whether the company will make it or not, but the business itself has been run properly for several years now. It is just a matter of whether or not that $2 billion debt load is to much to overcome. I hope they can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupremeClientele Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Wouldn't the fact that Six Flags MM continues to have plans for new rollercoasters (one being Terminator, even the CEO says there will be a new ride for 2010--to take back the rollercoaster record in a park) indicate good news? They could be trying to make it look as nice as possible for a sale. You know, like redoing the kitchen on a house before it ends up on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDCOASTERFAN Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 If they are in that much trouble why are that painting their rides and building a new one? sorry if that sounds like a stupid question. I personally think the government will step in to help if it gets that bad, the parks bring people into the local areas so if they go a lot of shops will go. As much as I favor the new administration I seriously doubt that Obama would agree to a bailout of the amusement industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginzo Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 They could be trying to make it look as nice as possible for a sale. You know, like redoing the kitchen on a house before it ends up on the market. I doubt they'll try to put SFMM up for sale again. They tried and epic failed back when the economy was in much better shape than it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWill961 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 Wouldn't the fact that Six Flags MM continues to have plans for new rollercoasters (one being Terminator, even the CEO says there will be a new ride for 2010--to take back the rollercoaster record in a park) indicate good news? They could be trying to make it look as nice as possible for a sale. You know, like redoing the kitchen on a house before it ends up on the market. Yeah, that's possible. But it is kinda all speculatory at the moment. Back to the subject on hand. I really don't see Six Flags disolving as a result of increasing difficulty in meeting their financial obligations; I see them liquidiating a lot of their assets, and regressing from a lot of the big expansion moves they've made in the last decade, if anything. I really do believe that Six Flags is going to become a somewhat secondary amusement chain, sorry to say, but I think as far as them not surviving 2009 is concerned, a lot of the chains in America are going to go byebye (at the very least). I'm just going to throw some names out there like: Great America, St. Louis, DK, KK, America, and Over Georgia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceace12 Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I doubt St. Louis gets sold, the park was the third in the chain, so I would see them get rid of more of the smaller parks before STL. Also, I could see them selling off some land first, they own 500 some acres there but only use 100. I could see them selling land at other parks too where they have a over abundance. Another reason I wouldn't think STL would get sold is because beside SFKK and Chicago, SFSTL is the only SF park south, south west and west of that area until you get to Texas and California. As for Six Flags closing SFKK, they can't, they only manage the park, they don't own it. IF all the parks you list close, the only place SF will have parks is on the coasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanlv Posted February 11, 2009 Share Posted February 11, 2009 I don't see them selling any parks because they will not be able to get enough money from the sale to offset their debt load. If they sell a park then they lose the cash flow from that park and if the amount they receive in the sale isn't sufficient to pay down that debt and reduce their interest payments. They may try to sell one or two parks, but only the ones that aren't currently making money. From what I understand, almost all of the remaining Six Flags parks are money makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jew Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 ^They may not have a choice. Preferred stock payments are due by August 2009. They also have another $130 million in senior unsecured notes due in 2010. That's the current issue that put Six Flags on this list. Selling some parks could at least cover that debt. But again, this is all speculation. I'm sure Six Flags is exploring all their options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanlv Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 ^You're right Joey. The only thing that is sure right now is the people who own Six Flags stock (including myself), are very very sad given its current price! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfmmrules! Posted February 12, 2009 Author Share Posted February 12, 2009 These are the original Six Flags parks before Six Flags started buying other properties-for example SFDK & SFDL: -SFOT the first SF park opened in 1961 -SFAW defunct -SFT Texas used to be known as the 18 Flags Over Texas -SFOG -SFGreat Adventure -SFGreat America -SFSL -SFMM SF would have been fine today if they only owned their original parks. They bought too many over the years. They need to let some of those go but not the originals listed above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rollerman87 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I personally believ that that, like mentioned before, the company may sell a few of their smaller parks, or their extra land, but I believe we might see more rehabs and clean ups taking place. Now they are really going to look at the parks and figure out how they can get more people to come. Obviously, for SFMM, they would have to try and clean up the horrible rep they've collected over the years about it being "banger" territory. Or the big guys can pocket all the cash and run for it, leaving us sobbing as the banks get the parks and they bulldoze the rides to the ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebl Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 ^^ Just a note: Six Flags only built three of its own parks: SFOT in 1961. SFOG in 1967. SFOMA (Now called SFStL) in 1971. Every other park in the chain, starting with AstroWorld in 1975, was purchased from someone else, so Six Flags has been in the park purchasing business for a long, long time. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Six Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 I vote Morgan Freeman for narrating the video documentary of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy4Coasters! Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 ^ If Mr. Freeman can't do it I know James Earl Jones would be up to the task... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWill961 Posted February 12, 2009 Share Posted February 12, 2009 Whenever I mention MM to my dad, he thinks of it as Mexicanville and teen's paradise. I don't know much about it being Mexicanville; but I do think MM needs to continue working on the whole teen issue. Cleaning up rep is a good thing SF should start trying to persue when it comes to improving their parks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holidayworld08 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I bet if SF did go bankrupt,the first park to close would be SFKK. Which just happens to be the nearest SF park to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spaceace12 Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I bet if SF did go bankrupt,the first park to close would be SFKK. Which just happens to be the nearest SF park to me. SF does not own SFKK, only manage it. The worst that would happen is that it wouldn't be SF anymore and all the rides SF put in could possibly leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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