California Great America (CGA) Discussion Thread

[robman]

Would they even need to level out the land completely for a coaster like that? I mainly see clearing of some trees, maybe some terrain modifications. Who knows, maybe they'll build up a small berm around the back end of "Prudential Field" to muffle some of the noise.

 

Not really sure I think it may depend on how the dirt has settled over the years. There is a decent sized hill closer to the Imax theater and I would assume that it would be leveled out because it is around the general area of station and part of the lift I believe.

[ScottBrown]

I believe the new GCI was designed around the existing terrain and if there are any alterations they will be minimal although, I would imagine they will remove the remains of the Whizzer

[Tmcdllr]

 

Whizzer footers!

[ScottBrown]

Yes they are I have a bunch of pictures of that area before they cleared it in 2000 one of these days I will get around to posting them

[Double0Kevin]

Also, I feel sad that Hypersonic was never built, it would've been amazing for CGA to have such a large coaster. I heard somewhere that Paramount was responsible because they wanted a "family amusement park", so they cancelled Hypersonic and removed Stealth for Boomerang Bay. This information may not be correct.

 

Well it worked out for CGA since Hypersonic turned out to be a total bust. Also, that whole "We are going family" was a total marketing spin to make excuses for the sudden cut in spending towards large attractions at the park. They just didn't want to advertise being cheap.

 

*edit* - I want to point out when I say they were being cheap, I'm referring to this on a corporate level. The park was just doing what they could with what they got. They weren't the ones being cheap (although this all happened around the time their GM got busted for money laundering).

[XYZ]

Also, wasn't Stealth a failure and the return on investment wasn't so good? That might have been the reason Hypersonic was pulled because it probably would do better in Kings Dominion. Remember, Stealth costed $17 million so it wasn't some cheap investment and Hypersonic was another $15 million planned to be built one year after Stealth, so it might've been better to ship Hypersonic somewhere else. Though, the decision to remove Stealth for Boomerang Bay I always thought was a terrible decision, they could've planned the enterance somewhere else rather than remove CGA's star attraction.

[JJnCFL]

Having worked on Stealth several times back in 2001, it was a major nightmare. Constant downtimes, horrid capacities, slow loading times (Hauled ass when I was there though), not to mention the fact that they actually closed the line an hour before the park closed due to the long waits. BB on the other hand has proven to be a big success, boosting attendance, and alleviating the crowds especially during the hot summer days. As much as I loved Stealth as it was unique and one of a kind at the time, the park had to get rid of it as it was a constant headache. Regarding BB though, the only other place I could think they could've placed it would be kinda adjacent to Star Tower and the parking lot, aka where SFGAm's water park is, though if the damn Prudential Buildings weren't there, who knows...

[KDCOASTERFAN]

Im not 100% certain if they were the ones who killed the TA2k I do know it was one of the companies on that side of the park , the park had cleared land and put up construction walls giving hints about the new ride by listing how quickly various things could reach 80MPH and of course removed the train and after that point and all of that work had already been put in the project was quite suddenly cancelled

 

Don't forget KD cancelling their installation of the flying dutchman in favor of the TA2K also played a part.

[CGA_88]

Could you imagine if CGA did get Hypersonic? That could've been 4 coaster removed from the park (Greased Lightning, Stealth, Hypersonic, and Invertigo). Granted we don't know if Hypersonic would have been removed if built at CGA, but there would have been a good possibility.

[XYZ]

Having worked on Stealth several times back in 2001, it was a major nightmare. Constant downtimes, horrid capacities, slow loading times (Hauled A$$ when I was there though), not to mention the fact that they actually closed the line an hour before the park closed due to the long waits. BB on the other hand has proven to be a big success, boosting attendance, and alleviating the crowds especially during the hot summer days. As much as I loved Stealth as it was unique and one of a kind at the time, the park had to get rid of it as it was a constant headache. Regarding BB though, the only other place I could think they could've placed it would be kinda adjacent to Star Tower and the parking lot, aka where SFGAm's water park is, though if the damn Prudential Buildings weren't there, who knows...

 

Though, wouldn't giving it to Carowinds would bring the problems there also? So, Paramount really doesn't benefit much from it.

[Angry_Gumball]

I believe Shane/Montezooma posted something a while back about Stealth and the reasoning behind why she left us. Doing some digging, I found his post in the Amusement Attic thread:

CorkscrewFoley wrote:Shane, do you think maybe Stealth wasn't a success because of all the mechanical issues they had?

 

It wasn’t necessarily a flop although there were many mechanical issues. The public liked it but capacity was horrible and it was a very expensive piece of equipment and it was decided that PGA just wasn’t a big enough park to justify the cost. The GP liked the ride but the return on the investment was not the same as going after the family market.

[XYZ]

I believe Shane/Montezooma posted something a while back about Stealth and the reasoning behind why she left us. Doing some digging, I found his post in the Amusement Attic thread:

CorkscrewFoley wrote:Shane, do you think maybe Stealth wasn't a success because of all the mechanical issues they had?

 

It wasn’t necessarily a flop although there were many mechanical issues. The public liked it but capacity was horrible and it was a very expensive piece of equipment and it was decided that PGA just wasn’t a big enough park to justify the cost. The GP liked the ride but the return on the investment was not the same as going after the family market.

 

Back in 2003, wasn't Carowinds basically the same size and had about the same attendance as CGA? Back in the late 90s, CGA had around 2 million visitors a year.

[JJnCFL]

Also remember Stealth was the first ever of its kind so it obviously suffered growing pains in the beginning. The maintenance issues coupled with the bad capacity make a bad combo. I remember one night when I helped out as closing supervisor (normally worked on Grizzly/Drop Zone at the time) we had to stay well over an 1 hour and a half after the park closed just to finish off the line, and bear in mind as I mentioned before the line for the ride closed an hour before the park even closed, and this happened a lot.

Edited May 4, 2012 by JJnCFL

[Rollercoaster Rider]

Having worked on Stealth several times back in 2001, it was a major nightmare. Constant downtimes, horrid capacities, slow loading times (Hauled A$$ when I was there though), not to mention the fact that they actually closed the line an hour before the park closed due to the long waits. BB on the other hand has proven to be a big success, boosting attendance, and alleviating the crowds especially during the hot summer days. As much as I loved Stealth as it was unique and one of a kind at the time, the park had to get rid of it as it was a constant headache. Regarding BB though, the only other place I could think they could've placed it would be kinda adjacent to Star Tower and the parking lot, aka where SFGAm's water park is, though if the damn Prudential Buildings weren't there, who knows...

 

 

I would've put it where Whizzer was. Waterslides are "Quieter" than a Wooden Coaster. Who am I kidding, Prudential will still complain.

[MrSum1_55]

Stealth, overall, was just a bad idea to send to a smaller park. Sure, it had capacity issues, but I wouldn't completely blame Vekoma for that one. If your crews are pulling 5 minute dispatches (like they still do on Firehawk all the time), it may be time to increase the size of the crew. Thankfully, the newer versions were installed with dual load platforms. (Although I have never heard of SFA using theirs).

 

What CGA should have done was build a B&M floorless. It would cost about the same, but it would have higher capacity, be easier to hit the capacity, and, CGA would have been able to build it over 150 feet, so it could have been marketed as "taller and faster than Medusa". This would give GCA the upper end in the eyes of the GP, and, thus, they might not be the struggling park they are now.

 

Really, capacity is what you make of it. The slowest dispatches I have ever seen occurred on Racer at Kennywood. First, the trains would arrive in the station. Then, a few fastpass riders would be let in. This was followed by filling the station (which takes a few minutes due to the older design of the station; they can't start filling the station until the trains are in it). So, 2-3 minutes have already gone by before the restraints have even started to be checked. Then, ONE ride op (not one for each train but ONE ride op) would slowly check both trains. The whole process took 6-7 minutes for each set of trains. Then, since two trains were running, that meant one train for each side, adding yet another two minutes on the dispatch time. So, you could be the next person in line, and still have nearly 10 minutes to go.

 

This is one example of how, in fact, parks can control capacity. Stealth's problem was likely more maintainence issues than capacity.

[CoasterGuy06]

Back in 2003, wasn't Carowinds basically the same size and had about the same attendance as CGA? Back in the late 90s, CGA had around 2 million visitors a year.

CGA's profit margins are much different since they have to give the city a cut since they own the land. The new contract CF worked out with them a few months ago helps them keep more of the money now which is why it seems they are willing to continue with the wood coaster project now.

[JJnCFL]

I guess it's easy to say add more crews, but realistically speaking when you're at limited staffing, there's only so much you can do, but that's a whole other topic . Trust me, my main goal when I worked there 10 years ago was to get those trains in and out in no time in a safe manner of course. How I miss the days when when were able to check restraints quickly but safely, and still dispatch the train before the next one hit the brake run. At least it was easier to do when I was at Grizzly (with their now extra extra seatbelt, not so sure).

[Angry_Gumball]

I've never ridden Stealth, or any Vekoma flyer in that matter. How complex was the restraint system anyway? (As in, did guests usually fumble things up trying to put their vest restraints on and whatnot?) I'm sure guests as well often slowed things down which is always another factor to consider.

[MrSum1_55]

^I have ridden Firehawk. Although the restraints are surprisingly comfortable, there is one main problem with them. The restraints consist of an upper chest-belt and a lap bar. The problem is most people tend to secure the chest belt first. Once this is done, most people cannot reach the lap bar, meaning the ride op has the pull it down for them further reducing the capacity. Additionally, the ride ops are required to check each restraint twice, not once. Before a train can be dispatched, the checking process has to be repeated again.

 

However, one issue with staffing I have little understanding of is the use of dual loading. It takes at least 6-8 ride ops to run a coaster with two stations. Instead of dual loading, why not just have four ride ops checking restraints in one station? That would actually require less staff, and could be more efficient.

[Angry_Gumball]

Was doing some Youtube searching for Stealth, just for memory's sake and came across this Discovery/Travel Channel-ish video:

I believe I have this DVD laying around somewhere that has this Stealth snippet (along with the old V2 at SFDK and other coasters).

[Tmcdllr]

There's that David Escalante guy again...

[154bmag]

I thought Vekoma was from The Netherlands, but in the video, it says they're Dutch.

[Angry_Gumball]

I thought Vekoma was from The Netherlands, but in the video, it says they're Dutch.

 

The Dutch people (Dutch: About this sound Nederlanders (help·info)) are an ethnic group native to the Netherlands.

-Wikipedia

[Hhappy]

I thought Vekoma was from The Netherlands, but in the video, it says they're Dutch.

sigh

 

this just made me cry.

 

The dutch are the people from the netherlands (also known as Holland)

sigh

 

^ not sure about being a native group.. we're not aboriginals or indians

Edited May 4, 2012 by Hhappy

[Double0Kevin]

I thought Vekoma was from The Netherlands, but in the video, it says they're Dutch.

 

 

Face......................Palm.