Evolution or Creationism

[Louise]

^ In my opinion Wes's post wasn't a threat of any kind, merely an observation that threads which concern any kind of religious debate *do* in general, one way or another, end up causing argument and upset. We did have a religious discussion thread last a considerable amount of time once, back in the day, hopefully this will make at least a few more pages.

 

I'm not 100% sure whether I believe in a higher being or not, it changes day by day, but for the most part, I'm with Stan in South Park:

 

Couldn't evolution be the answer to how and not the answer to why?

 

Evolution is how it happened. God (or whatever form of creator you believe in) is why.

 

I found the link that Julie posted quite interesting, I hadn't heard of that theory before.

[XII]

Evolution all the way

[hyyyper]

Anyone with more than 4 braincells and who had biology in school knows that were here because of evolution, and not 'the-dude-on-the-cloud'

[shepp]

^ In my opinion Wes's post wasn't a threat of any kind, merely an observation that threads which concern any kind of religious debate *do* in general, one way or another, end up causing argument and upset. We did have a religious discussion thread last a considerable amount of time once, back in the day, hopefully this will make at least a few more pages.

 

Well, my point - as off-topic as it might have been - was that in another recent thread Robb, a straight white guy, cracked a joke about "fags" and "beaners" while telling those who might be upset that they should get over themselves. He, in fact, took justifiable pride in the wide-open discourse on this site. So why should a moderator threaten to shut down a thread on religious matters, just because someone says, for instance, that the Genesis story (two parallel stories actually, as The Big Guy creates woman in both Gen. 1:27 and then again in 2:22) is quite as thoroughly probable as The Wind in the Willows? Perhaps there's a distinction between "fag" and "superstitious fool," but if so, I'd think the former is the more offensive, no?

 

Oh hell, now I'm really going to Hell....

 

Ah well.

[BiCoastal Kid]

Evolution.

 

They do actually have very reasonable theories on how it all started. It all comes down to forming gradients. Of course, that random formation of a gradient that would properly lead to what we would call simple bacteria would be a huge coincidence. That's the idea I believe most, too. It seems very reasonable to me.

 

I think that coincidence is the reason so many people choose not to accept evolution. They either can't comprehend such a minute coincidence(and not just for the gradients, but for mutation-based variations which are then "tested" through natural selection, also), or simply refuse to accept these coincidences because they want desperately for their existence to be something of meaning. They want their roots to be easily tangible so that the thought required to comprehend their existence does not detract away from something they esteem as something golden. They want their ultimate creation to be something quite simple. Heavy thought could cause frustration, and frustration distracts them from that glow.

 

I, being a realist, go in the directions that logic or observable evidence point me. I do not however dismiss the possibility of there being something supernatural, but as I see no proof for their being one, I simply do not waste my time attempting to construct such a being. I'm completely at ease with coincidences, and being "existentially selfish", I can allow myself to live my life happily without needing a default explanation for that which I have not explored.

[Louise]

Anyone with more than 4 braincells and who had biology in school knows that were here because of evolution, and not 'the-dude-on-the-cloud'

 

It's posts like this that get these kind of threads locked. It's nothing to do with having "more than 4 braincells", it's a personal opinion, and everybody is entitled to their own, whether you agree with it or not.

 

Shepp, you've made your point. If you take issue with how Robb runs the site, that's absolutely fine, but discussing it on the public forums isn't the way to do it.

 

Final warning guys, please keep this on-topic and as a civil discussion.

[BiCoastal Kid]

Anyone who had Biology in school, and retained any of it, would also realize that somebody with 4 brains cells would not have a brain since said cells would have already deteriorated and hence would not be able to comprehend either idea of existence, but would still be able to make said post.

[Jew]

Well, my point - as off-topic as it might have been - was that in another recent thread Robb, a straight white guy, cracked a joke about "fags" and "beaners" while telling those who might be upset that they should get over themselves. He, in fact, took justifiable pride in the wide-open discourse on this site. So why should a moderator threaten to shut down a thread on religious matters, just because someone says, for instance, that the Genesis story (two parallel stories actually, as The Big Guy creates woman in both Gen. 1:27 and then again in 2:22) is quite as thoroughly probable as The Wind in the Willows? Perhaps there's a distinction between "fag" and "superstitious fool," but if so, I'd think the former is the more offensive, no?

 

Because there is a difference between a joke and a "flame." If you can't see the difference between the two, maybe TPR isn't the site for you.

[CommanderLock]

^Man's got a point.

 

There is evidence of evolution around us:

Let's take that Rayd spray you use for bugs around the house.

About 90% die, 5% suffer and the other 5% live normally.

The ones that survive have those one or two bases in their genetic code changes so they survive, they reproduce, that trait gets handed down and then YOU notice that the Rayd doesn't seem to work anymore.

Artifical Selection. Never really think about it, do you?

 

Same goes for anti-bacterial soap. 99% of the bacteria die, then the 1% that had the resistance trait replicate and pass that down. Then that "Kills 99% of Bacteria!" becomes the opposite.

 

So the reason these bacteria and bugs keep getting more annoying is becuase we're making them stronger from what we make to kill them.

Darwin had a good point when he thought up Natural/Artifical Selection.

[crispy]

WOW, what a touchy subject

 

First of all I was brought up in the Church, and at one point was a worship leader

 

I believe there is truth in what is written in the bible, but it may not be fully understood, I think there is some truth is evolution, but that could have been part of God's plan all along, I really don't know, but am not really swayed in my belief that God certainly had a hand in it

 

I would ask that this discussion be kept civil, Post like this on this board have suprised me in the past by being very civil, and intelligent, lets keep it that way, if a Person has a personal belief either way, it is theirs, and no one has the right to say they are wrong, or stupid

[Masked_Maverick]

Creationism. Thats just how I was brought up and to me it makes the most sense and keeps things relatively simple.

[Wes]

So why should a moderator threaten to shut down a thread on religious matters, just because someone says, for instance, that the Genesis story (two parallel stories actually, as The Big Guy creates woman in both Gen. 1:27 and then again in 2:22) is quite as thoroughly probable as The Wind in the Willows?

 

That's not what I said at all. I said "A friendly reminder to keep this thread civil. Any hint of it turning into arguments or a flame war will result in a lock on the thread." I nowhere said people couldn't state their views, I said if it started turning into an argument or a flame war, I would close it.

 

Surprisingly, the thread was incredibly civil. Right up until the middle of page three. Who started posting then?

[coaster05]

For all those who give their answer, but then have to "jab" at the other answer that they view is wrong, get over yourself. The question asked to choose one or the other, or as some of the reasonable tolerant ones have said a combination of both. If you are 100% against the idea of being created, but feel the need to blast those people who believe in God you are just as closed minded as the others you are attacking.

 

My belief is the combo theory of God created the place and evolution is helping(or hurting) the progression of the planet. The thing with God is if he is as powerful as people say couldn't he have created a planet that looks like its evolving just to test the faith and find his or her true believers.

 

My last thought is what keeps me out of church, but still saying prayers.

[bigstevet07]

I'm with pretty much everyone on here. I believe God got it started and evolution took over. How else can you explain Patrick Ewing and Drew Carey?

[shepp]

That's not what I said at all. I said "A friendly reminder to keep this thread civil. Any hint of it turning into arguments or a flame war will result in a lock on the thread." I nowhere said people couldn't state their views, I said if it started turning into an argument or a flame war, I would close it.

 

Surprisingly, the thread was incredibly civil. Right up until the middle of page three. Who started posting then?

 

Point taken...sort of. I certainly don't think anything I said was a flame or uncivil, though. (Do you? And if so, what?) Flame wars are useless, yes, but reasoned arguments - even heated ones - are not.

 

I brought this all up not to be ornery, really, but because I think there's a double standard at play in this society. If anyone says anything anti-religious, he risks being branded as a bigot, while religious people's bigotry is too often excused as "theology." As in: "We don't dislike you - God does." And I'm not just talking about gay stuff, though I am queer. Hell, the Mormons had perfectly reasoned explanations of why black people were inferior, until a convenient "revelation" in the midst of the Civil Rights Era caused the LDS to change their tune. And, of course, many Christians believe that Jews, likable as they may be, will unfortunately be subjected to unspeakable torture through all eternity.

 

Sure, religion is a touchy subject, but so is race, and when that other thread contained statements that a number of posters - mostly people of color - found moderately racist, Robb replied, "I like to say we are an 'equal opportunity offender.' We give everyone crap, so if you or your ethnic group feel singled out, let me know, and we'll start making fun of other races, political parties, coaster groups, sexual orientation, etc, more often."

 

Therefore, I find it odd that a discussion that touches on religion should come with a preemptive warning attached, that's all.

[Wes]

I don't see the problem with letting users know to keep a topic about a hot button subject as civil as possible. You're reading far more into this than there needs to be.

[Jew]

Therefore, I find it odd that a discussion that touches on religion should come with a preemptive warning attached, that's all.

 

Again...there's a difference between a joke and an actual flame. I don't think anyone who used racial slurs to "flame" someone would stick around here for very long.

[c0@ster]

Therefore, I find it odd that a discussion that touches on religion should come with a preemptive warning attached, that's all.

 

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I agree with Wes (thanks to my wonderful friend. ) I think someone might have eventually said something stupid that might offend someone else if Wes hadn't put out that warning.

 

But so far this topic HAS been pretty civil. =]

[californiascreamer1]

I believe that God created the Earth, but I also believe that things evolved over time.

 

I agree

[halation]

Unfortunately a lot of people see this in terms of black or white..God or no God. I don't see it that way. If you want to say that God in the current evangelical "God the Father Almighty" created the Earth (what about the rest of the infinite universe?) in seven days (aren't days measured as a complete rotation of the Earth..and how can you count "days" if the Earth had not been completed?).. then I say.. ah, NO. If you want to look at the idea of "God" and "creation" a bit more open mindedly...who's to say that creation isn't happening CONSTANTLY. SO called "miracles" happen every day. Babies are born, plants sprout, hurricanes form, matter decomposes, matter CHANGES FORM. There are millions of processes that occur CONSTANTLY...and things change..or can we say "evolve". Things most certainly DO change and evolve.

 

I believe that "God" is everpresent..is not separate from us and is constantly creating..AND destroying (which is neccessary). I definately don't view God as a man (why would God have gender?) with a white beard sitting "up there" somewhere, picking and chosing what "he" wants to be involved in. Creation happens and evolution happens.

 

This is just a quick response to a very complicated issue, which unfortunately people want to make it a simple either/ or, which I don't see it as.

[roasted_marshmallow]

I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive.

[Disney Dood]

Why isn't scientology up there?

[krouvi]

I believe that God created the Earth, but I alos believe that things evolved over time.

 

This is what I believe too.

 

I believe "something" started the creation and from that point it is evolution.

 

I respect both point of views and merge them into one. Yes I belive in evolution but I also believe something started it, and this something is God.

 

I also believe there is one God for all of use and we just look at him from different angles.

[Cameron]

I brought this all up not to be ornery, really, but because I think there's a double standard at play in this society.

 

Oh Shepp, there's no double standard. Look, if you jump up and down all the time screaming "I'm special! I'm special!", then people will treat you differently. Furthermore it's extremely annoying to have to listen to someone jumping up and down all the time screaming "I'm special! I'm special!", so people get annoyed and then treat you poorly.

 

If you want people to treat you like a normal adult, then you're going to have to act like one. There are zillions of gay guys all over the world who just live their lives like everyone else, and don't complain of any double standards. You're going to have to face it, you're not special.

 

Anyway, back to the topic (which I've enjoyed reading): I don't believe in the literal translation of Genesis, which means I don't believe in creationism. I don't have a problem with people who believe in creationism (or anything else), as long as they don't try and enforce those beliefs onto me; however I will happily discuss different beliefs with anyone until we're both blue in the face!

 

Cameron.

[Carnage]

I believe in Bumba.

 

In the beginning, all was dark. Then out of the darkness came BUMBA, a giant pale-skinned figure. He was not feeling well. In fact he had not been feeling well for millions of years. He was lonely, and the unbearable solitude was making him ill.

 

Troubled by a ballooning bellyache, he staggered, moaned and vomited up the Sun. Light burst forth into the Universe — and he choked out the Moon. The stars came next and then, with a tremendous effort, he threw up the planet Earth. We do live in a very sick world.

 

This nauseating display was brought to a triumphant conclusion when, as an encore, he vomited forth nine animals, an assortment of humans, and a pile of diced carrots.

 

Exhausted from his labors, he sat and watched as the nine creatures multiplied. After a while, they had evolved into every living thing on Earth. Which goes to show that Creationism and Evolution are both right.

 

Apart from a pesky critter named TSETSE-BUMBA, all his creatures were friendly and respectful. His loneliness abated and finally he was content.

 

Then BUMBA's three sons appeared. NYONYE-NGANA, CHONGANDA and CHEDI-BUMBA added the finishing touches and thus the world was made. BUMBA spoke kindly to his human creations before ascending to Heaven, never to be seen again. So far as we know, his stomach has never troubled him since.