Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

[FaithPlus1]

^Not anytime soon.

[Projektion]

Unless there's a sudden stand-up boom again, no.

[rcjp]

I was surprised that almost no European park went with the standup thing. I mean, isn't there only 1 or am I missing something?

[hydra]

Shockwave at Drayton Manor is an Intamin and I believe that is the only one in Europe.

 

I agree though that of all the Stand-ups I have been on (Riddlers, Scorcher, Mantis, Green Lantern, Carowinds Vortex), Scorcher is easily the best of the bunch. Very smooth, not painful at all.

[Projektion]

I was surprised that almost no European park went with the standup thing. I mean, isn't there only 1 or am I missing something?

Because European park knew better.

 

Shockwave at Drayton Manor is an Intamin and I believe that is the only one in Europe.

 

I agree though that of all the Stand-ups I have been on (Riddlers, Scorcher, Mantis, Green Lantern, Carowinds Vortex), Scorcher is easily the best of the bunch. Very smooth, not painful at all.

 

It's curious when you think about it, Riddlers and Scorcher seem to have the reputation of being the smoothest stand-ups, and they were the last ones built. Did everyone just stop caring for stand-ups when B&M started getting it right?

[rcjp]

^I know, right? I mean, when they were rough and uncomfortable they were all over the place and then when they started providing a better ride experience they vanished.

[RaceBoarder]

I think that we moved onto bigger and better things with coasters by the time that B&M got their ducks in a row... Look at what the early 2000s brought us in coasters... Simply standing while on a coaster just wasn't appealing by itself and wouldn't grab headlines... By that point in time, we were going 100mph and over 300 feet tall...

[hydra]

Haha, good point. I guess when everyone saw how great (and lets be honest, much more comfortable) the Floorless train was, they suddenly lost interest.

[detigerfan]

I think that we moved onto bigger and better things with coasters by the time that B&M got their ducks in a row... Look at what the early 2000s brought us in coasters... Simply standing while on a coaster just wasn't appealing by itself and wouldn't grab headlines... By that point in time, we were going 100mph and over 300 feet tall...

And pretty soon I hope we're going 200 mph, and over 500 feet.

[nicman]

I think that we moved onto bigger and better things with coasters by the time that B&M got their ducks in a row... Look at what the early 2000s brought us in coasters... Simply standing while on a coaster just wasn't appealing by itself and wouldn't grab headlines... By that point in time, we were going 100mph and over 300 feet tall...

And pretty soon I hope we're going 200 mph, and over 500 feet.

 

 

That would be hard to do with G-forces.

[coasterbill]

I'm not sure if G forces are the reason nobody has gone 500 feet.

 

I think it's more likely a combination of other factors one of which being the fact that strata coasters have proven to be an unimaginable maintenance nightmare especially in their first few seasons where the highest return on investment would come. Kinga Ka is only 44 feet short of the 500 foot mark but after seeing how it performed in it's debut season who would buy another one? I'm suprised Six Flags rolled the dice on Kingda Ka after try saw what happened with Dragster where Cedar Point went as far as putting a special page on their website letting people know if Dragster was broken or not.

 

So who would buy one of these? Cedar Fair probably learned their lesson, Six Flags probably did too and wouldn't spent that much on a coaster anyway (plus why beat your own record?). Busch and Merlin probably wouldn't go this route? Who's left?

 

It would need to be a company with a lot of capital to spend so there aren't too many options. Sure you could break the record with a different coaster type but who would build it? I think a standard full circuit 500 foot coaster may be cost prohibitive so it would probably need to be a brand new coaster type or someone would have to be crazy enough to give Intamin a call.

 

BTW... I'm not talking about a Polar Coaster, I'm talking specifically about a coaster that actually drops 500 feet.

[nicman]

It is also with money, Kingda Ka was a huge investment for a pretty short ride. It also breaks down a lot, so I do not think we will be getting a Strata coaster in a while. The next Strata coaster we would probably get is a B & M Strata coaster. Since Intamin has a lot of problems, I do not think they would design another Strata coaster.

[Projektion]

There's supposedly one coming to PortAventura in 2016 (I say supposedly because the height hasn't been confirmed yet, but it looks to be a strata). But yeah, I think it's generally money that stops parks from getting them, since it seems that as a coaster gets higher, the price of the ride exponentially grows, and that's not taking into account maintenance.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Projektion

[nicman]

There's supposedly one coming to PortAventura in 2016 (I say supposedly because the height hasn't been confirmed yet, but it looks to be a strata).

 

Do you know who the manufacturer is?

[JonnyRCT3]

That would be hard to do with G-forces.

 

G forces aren't the concern here. Money and space are.

[Texascoaster89]

There's supposedly one coming to PortAventura in 2016 (I say supposedly because the height hasn't been confirmed yet, but it looks to be a strata).

 

Do you know who the manufacturer is?

 

If we go off of pictures, it looks like Intamin, but we'll see soon enough I imagine.

[Tmcdllr]

I think that we moved onto bigger and better things with coasters by the time that B&M got their ducks in a row... Look at what the early 2000s brought us in coasters... Simply standing while on a coaster just wasn't appealing by itself and wouldn't grab headlines... By that point in time, we were going 100mph and over 300 feet tall...

And pretty soon I hope we're going 200 mph, and over 500 feet.

 

 

That would be hard to do with G-forces.

 

Why, are you a coaster designer? Do you know for a fact that this is hard? These designers and engineers can do all kinds of tricky things to make a ride like that work.

[JonnyRCT3]

 

Why, are you a coaster designer? Do you know for a fact that this is hard? These designers and engineers can do all kinds of tricky things to make a ride like that work.

 

Let's say this hypothetical 500-foot coaster utilizes a cable lift hill at 17 mph, and drops 500 feet . The speed would be 123 MPH (without friction or air-resistance) at the bottom, and if the hypothetical coaster pulls 4.0 Gs, the radius would need to be less than or equal to 231 feet. Which is approximate to the pullout radii on Kingda Ka.

 

Yes, this could certainly work if a park has the funds, space, and desire to build such a coaster.

Edited October 26, 2014 by JonnyRCT3

[rcjp]

There's supposedly one coming to PortAventura in 2016 (I say supposedly because the height hasn't been confirmed yet, but it looks to be a strata).

 

Do you know who the manufacturer is?

 

If we go off of pictures, it looks like Intamin, but we'll see soon enough I imagine.

RCDB says it is Intamin.

 

I'm not sure if G forces are the reason nobody has gone 500 feet.

 

I think it's more likely a combination of other factors one of which being the fact that strata coasters have proven to be an unimaginable maintenance nightmare especially in their first few seasons where the highest return on investment would come. Kinga Ka is only 44 feet short of the 500 foot mark but after seeing how it performed in it's debut season who would buy another one? I'm suprised Six Flags rolled the dice on Kingda Ka after try saw what happened with Dragster where Cedar Point went as far as putting a special page on their website letting people know if Dragster was broken or not.

 

So who would buy one of these? Cedar Fair probably learned their lesson, Six Flags probably did too and wouldn't spent that much on a coaster anyway (plus why beat your own record?). Busch and Merlin probably wouldn't go this route? Who's left?

 

It would need to be a company with a lot of capital to spend so there aren't too many options. Sure you could break the record with a different coaster type but who would build it? I think a standard full circuit 500 foot coaster may be cost prohibitive so it would probably need to be a brand new coaster type or someone would have to be crazy enough to give Intamin a call.

 

BTW... I'm not talking about a Polar Coaster, I'm talking specifically about a coaster that actually drops 500 feet.

Aren't all the TTD and KK problems related to the launch system? I'm sure formaula rossa also has some downtime.

That would mean a traditional lift hill coaster could work but, like you said, a full layout would cost a fortune and nobody would build a coaster consisting of a lift, drop and brakes (I guess..)

 

Anyway, since the last strata was built 9 years ago we don't know how a new one would work out. We're still not sure if the one coming to Portaventura will be a really tall giga or barely a strata. They only said it will be taller than 100m (328 feet) but, at the same time the mentioned it will hit nearly 200km/h (124mph) and it really is "nearly" it will have to be a strata. I'm looking forward to seeing how it will do in terms of reliability.

[nicman]

If it is an Intamin Strata coaster than except lots of problems. On Kingda Ka they spend a lot of money on fixing the launch. Hopefully a new type of launch coaster will be developed with no problems.

[rollercoasterbuff]

Sorry to jump off topic for a second, but I wascurious if anyone who has gone to Halloweekends knows about the fright lane and fast lane? Is there a combo available for rides and haunts? And does the platinum pass get you into Halloweekends or do even pass holders have to buy tickets for Halloweekends?

[rcjp]

If it is an Intamin Strata coaster than except lots of problems. On Kingda Ka they spend a lot of money on fixing the launch. Hopefully a new type of launch coaster will be developed with no problems.

That's the problem. These hydraulic launches are really powerful and, from what I've read, relatively efficient (in terms of power consumption) but have a lot of problems. LSM launches, on the other hand, are more reliable but use a lot more energy and don't quite match the former for both acceleration and top speed.

[MagnumFreak25]

With the hydraulic launch on Dragster it seems to be more reliable every year. If they find a way to make it more reliable they might make more strata's. If not they can just stick with rides like Storm Runner, which is an awesome ride.

[DrachenfireOP]

If there's one thing I've learned, it's not to make predictions anymore! I always thought Intimin would have a constant corner on the giga market, because the concept of a chain lift on a giga seemed absurd, and people didn't seem too fond of it on Dragon. I thought B&M would never get into that game, and yet now they are and they're kicking total ass! Also, parks that had a Hyper are getting gigas with the same freakin trains! I never thought that would happen.

 

I can see CP trying to find a way to break 500 at some point. They broke 200, 300, and 400, and I think it would be an ego blow for them if they don't break 500 first (and SOMEONE will). However, I have a feeling it will be something we don't necessarily see coming, and might have a very non-traditional delivery because of space.

 

Also, quick side note back to stand ups, does being tall make them not suck? I'm 6' 4" and I've never had problems on stand ups. I actually really liked Mantis, and the only reason I'm not super bummed to see it go is because I know everyone else hates it, and I bet it's a cool layout as floorless. If they were scrapping it entirely I'd be pissed. Honestly though, my first standup was Shockwave at KD, and I've been on several standups around the country and in Canada, and never minded one. Then again, I don't get headaches on Arrow coasters either, which I again think is because I'm tall enough my head is well beyond the harness. The only coaster that gives me a headache really is Meanstreak, which delivers a headache from the vibrations more than anything.

[rcjp]

^^True. Storm runner is actually on my top 3 while TTD and KK are not. Still, the feeling of being launched to 120 + mph speeds and climbing more than 400 feet is awesome. For me KK's 20 seconds or so are the most thrilling on any ride. But then that's it, it's all it's got and that's the problem.

If they added after the tophat of a ride like that let's say, a part like skyrush's two airtime hills-high speed turns combo (the 8 shaped part) it could easily be a no 1 for me.

^There's a ride planned for Orlando in 2016 over 500 feet, so....