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Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread


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Valleyfair needs to answer soon!!

 

It's a small park that's almost 250 miles from Valleyfair. No they don't.

 

Umm, I have to both agree and disagree. Valleyfair needs a boatload of new additions to get to where they should be but I agree with the waterpark addition. Valleyfair will have to make some additions to compete with MOA. They need to add attractions that you just cant really do indoors.

But I disagree about answering Adventureland. Adventureland went 20 years between new coasters. In 2016 they build Monster. Now just 3 seasons later in 2019 they are adding another coaster. I can almost guarantee you they saw a huge increase in attendance from Monster. Gee, add something people want to ride and attendance increases. So what do they do? Add another one! It will be at least 13 years before a new coaster for Valleyfair. That's assuming they get one in 2020 which is a BIG IF????? Are people from the twin cities going to start flocking to Iowa to get their coaster fix? No! But if Valleyfair doesn't start doing something Big time soon attendance is going to drop. Yes, a water park addition will increase attendance from families but a big coaster addition or two would also see a big boost in attendance from every other demographic. That's why they really need both plus maybe a few more major flat rides! Ugh, where to begin?!?!

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if Valleyfair doesn't start doing something Big time soon attendance is going to drop.

 

Based on? Attendance has been fine throughout that 13 year drought that you mentioned but in year 14 people are finally going to get fed up? Come on...

 

Are people from the twin cities going to start flocking to Iowa to get their coaster fix? No!

 

Right...

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SFGAM adds a new coaster every 2-5 years. If that doesn't hurt VF then Adventureland adding a spinner shouldn't either. Advetnureland is adding a spinner. The twin cities already have fairly odd coaster which is a spinner. I bet 75% of folks in Minneapolis have never even heard of Adventureland.

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if Valleyfair doesn't start doing something Big time soon attendance is going to drop.

 

Based on? Attendance has been fine throughout that 13 year drought that you mentioned but in year 14 people are finally going to get fed up? Come on...

 

Are people from the twin cities going to start flocking to Iowa to get their coaster fix? No!

 

Right...

 

I didn't say it was going to drop in year 14 but I still stand by what I said. Look at the Mall of America. Why do you think they are constantly adding, adding, adding? New rides, new attractions, new stores, new kiosks, new restaurants, new hotels, new water park! etc., etc., etc! It's because they know that adding or changing keeps crowds coming back! If Valleyfair just built their park, opened it in 1976 but never added another ride or attraction do you think it would still be in operation? Of course not! People would have gotten bored with it and stopped going. When Valleyfair built Wild Thing guess what happened? They topped one million visitors for the first time ever! Gee, I wonder why? I'll admit that Water Park additions do attract more people, primarily families which is great but you have to have a balance. I bet the addition of Delirious didn't see a boost in attendance. Since Cedar Fair does not release attendance figures for each park I cant say for sure but I sure didn't see big lines for it whenever I was there. A nice addition for sure but not one that's going to bring in local crowds. Look what Cedar Fair is doing with Carowinds? They are seeing HUGE jumps in attendance, according to CF. Valleyfair has a larger population base to draw from then Carowinds does. Cedar Fair knows this because that data came from them. I still believe CF will follow through with their commitment to give Valleyfair a Carowinds style treatment in the future. All I'm saying is that they really need to think about doing it soon.

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Look at the Mall of America. Why do you think they are constantly adding, adding, adding? New rides, new attractions, new stores, new kiosks, new restaurants, new hotels, new water park! etc., etc., etc!

 

You understand that malls lease space to other businesses right? "The mall" is not adding most of these things, the businesses that are leasing space from them are and the investments they make in new space are offset by the companies that end up leasing that new space.

 

Triple 5 DOES operate the amusement park but it's also a pay-per-ride park so adding new rides directly leads to measurable returns. Plus I would argue that Valleyfair is right on par with the mall in terms of new attractions in the decade since they re-branded the park. Delirious, Northern Lights, tons of new slides, antique cars and a 230 foot starflyer are at least comparable with a Chance revolution, upcharge ropes course, a Sky Fly and a Unicoaster.

 

It's not like Nickelodeon Universe has been breaking the bank on new additions over the last decade while Valleyfair has sat around doing nothing. They're pretty much on the same level and that's probably because they've pretty much cornered the market.

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Look at the Mall of America. Why do you think they are constantly adding, adding, adding? New rides, new attractions, new stores, new kiosks, new restaurants, new hotels, new water park! etc., etc., etc!

 

You understand that malls lease space to other businesses right? "The mall" is not adding most of these things, the businesses that are leasing space from them are and the investments they make in new space are offset by the companies that end up leasing that new space.

 

Triple 5 DOES operate the amusement park but it's also a pay-per-ride park so adding new rides directly leads to measurable returns. Plus I would argue that Valleyfair is right on par with the mall in terms of new attractions in the decade since they re-branded the park. Delirious, Northern Lights, tons of new slides, antique cars and a 230 foot starflyer are at least comparable with a Chance revolution, upcharge ropes course, a Sky Fly and a Unicoaster.

 

It's not like Nickelodeon Universe has been breaking the bank on new additions over the last decade while Valleyfair has sat around doing nothing. They're pretty much on the same level and that's probably because they've pretty much cornered the market.

 

You completely missed my point! I am fully aware and understand how malls work! Of the above list, only rides with in Nick U. are NOT being added by the mall itself. Everything else Is a "Mall" addition. MOA decides who leases with them and who does not. Have you ever seen promotional videos of MOA? They are promoting MOA as being the sum total of everything that the mall has to offer even if they don't own it or run it. The mall gets a percentage of profits on top of rent money for the space so even if Nick U. want's to add another attraction, you bet the mall is going to be all for it because ultimately it will bring in new revenue for the mall itself. So, for example, why is there a new hotel being built at Carowinds on property owned by Cedar? The hotel will be run by an independent company and the hotel operator can decide what amenities or added income sources it would like. Cedar Fair wont profit from that! But Cedar Fair will get lease money for the land, it may get a percentage of profits if that was part of the deal but mostly Cedar Fair and Carowinds will see increased income from guests coming back for a second or third day! Yes, there are other hotels around but none that will have the level of convenience that would come from a hotel on site.

 

When Triple 5 announced this year that they were close to having a deal with the city to build a new 250,000 square foot indoor water park, hotel and parking complex they also predicted, I believe, that nearly one million people per year would visit that water park. This is "new" guests over and above the 40 million that pass through the doors of MOA every year. They said they have wanted to do this addition for many years and now is the time. Why is that? The mall is doing great! It's because MOA is a destination point and with a new super mega mall in New Jersey set to open next year, also operated by Triple 5, they want MOA to remain a destination point.

 

Nick U and Valleyfair have been adding attractions at a comparable rate. I personally really like what Valleyfair has been doing. But what they are doing is improving the over all experience of the park. Non of what they have done has seen a surge in attendance because of it. I'm sure if Nick U had the space they would add some pretty major attractions. With 40 million visitors per year passing through MOA, they know it would pay off. And BTW, Nick U is only partially pay per ride, you can get all day wrist bands too!

 

My whole point in this discussion is sometimes you have to go big to get that huge surge in attendance. I believe Valleyfair has been preparing for this and the "huge" is coming soon. MOA is going huge with adding a massive water park. To adventureland down in Iowa, their "huge" was Monster and now a second coaster in 3 years.

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I'm sorry. I tried but I gave up on that word salad.

 

Adventureland has nothing to do with anything and I already said that Valleyfair should probably keep expanding the water park so I don't really know what point you're trying to make.

 

Valleyfair is fine. Every time I make the mistake of coming into this thread and suggesting that it's fine the way it is and doesn't *need* a giant expensive new ride it stirs up a frenzy. They've made some nice additions lately. If Dorney or Michigan's Adventure got that Starflyer or that Larson Loop it would be their best addition in a decade. The Valleyfair fanbase is certainly something else.

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There's a lot of parks that probably don't need more coasters. A lot of then have 6 or 7 and that's enough to spread out what crowds they do get. Maybe replace an older one when it reaches the end of its usefulness, but otherwise they're taking on additonal operating costs and not getting much back for it.

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Actually, Cedar Fair is the franchisee for the Marriott hotel at Carowinds, and will be paying to build it, will operate it, and will reap any profits. It is not a lease agreement with another entity.

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I'm sorry. I tried but I gave up on that word salad.

 

Adventureland has nothing to do with anything and I already said that Valleyfair should probably keep expanding the water park so I don't really know what point you're trying to make.

 

Valleyfair is fine. Every time I make the mistake of coming into this thread and suggesting that it's fine the way it is and doesn't *need* a giant expensive new ride it stirs up a frenzy. They've made some nice additions lately. If Dorney or Michigan's Adventure got that Starflyer or that Larson Loop it would be their best addition in a decade. The Valleyfair fanbase is certainly something else.

 

I think that you're right from a business perspective. Your reasoning is sound and adds up from a dollars and cents standpoint. And at the end of the day that's all that really matters in the eyes of the people who make decisions -- they're running a business, not a charity. They probably did the analysis and came to the decision that they'll get modest crowds without new rides, but won't get much of an uptick in that area with new rides.

 

Maybe some of the enthusiasts in this thread just *hope* that VF will shape up and become a more elite park? I went there last year, mostly just to experience it and for the credits along with Nickelodeon Universe -- and while I'm happy to have checked it off my list I'm comfortable with not having to go back there for the next 10 years or so. So I'm not that concerned with what goes on there for the near future. I just hope that they can contribute profitability to the CF chain.

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I know that Valleyfair isn’t getting any rides next year, but is it safe to say that we may at least get something new? Maybe a new restaurant or something? They had Chick-fil-A available at the chicken shack sometimes so maybe they’ll look into getting a permanent one? Does anyone have thoughts on this subject or even predictions maybe?

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Is it safe to say that you may at least get something new? I mean... sure, whatever that means.

 

It means they might get a small change to the park like a new restaurant

it isn't that confusing

Also, there is no reason to argue someone every time they suggest a change to the park

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