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This has shown up all over the Web, and no one really questions it. It seems cool though really odd. There's a Web site or two out there that are trying to debunk this. Apparently the architect has never built a skyscraper or been in architecture in decades. So it sounds like it's fake, or this proposal won't go anywhere.

Legend City? Does that have any connection to the former park in Arizona?

That joke would be relevant if you read the thread. But this is about the track sections before the lift hill, so prelift actually makes sense. Zing.

Here's the translated wall of text: It was a hot day at Kings Dominion, and it wasn't crowded. Pkd freak and his "boy" (your son?) rode Dominator three times. On their second ride into the last brake run, a girl threw up. Thankfully she threw up on her friend and not on pkd freak's boy. They also rode Rebel Yell, the former backward side. They were stopped on the lift hill and had to be evacuated. Our topic starter felt uneasy walking down the steps. Employees got their names and ZIP codes, but they weren't given anything for their trouble. Then they were given exit passes on Dominator. Also, foreign people stink. There. Was that so hard? It sucks that you had a fairly bad time at the park. But things like that happen. You got exit passes for being stopped and evacuated. People throw up on coasters. And foreign people don't wear deodorant.

I'm just talking about the ride side. I've heard that argument before, but I just don't buy it. If Cedar Fair bought it to close it, it would have been done right away. I think the chain saw that it was failing after a few years and made a sensible business move and dropped it. Giving the rides to other CF parks was a perk. If you think about it, businesses do this all the time. Krispy Kreme closed a lot of shops a few years ago, and Starbucks recently announced it will be closing 600 stores. Starbucks didn't open them intending to sell them for real estate space. They just underperformed. The same can be said for Geauga Lake. But I don't want to argue about that. Let's keep this on topic, I guess. Where did you see figures for how much Double Loop or Villain sold for? Do we know if they've been sold to a scrap dealer yet? I really want to see how much they went for.

It was a bad investment in the sense that it failed and had to be closed.

The long one! Aw, jeez. All right. The good: The layout is pretty fantastic for the most part. The little hop of airtime and the lateral-G turn before the lift are great. The G's are in check except for the ending of the helix after the second underground part. It gets pretty high for laterals. Not in the red, but that would probably be uncomfortable. My favorite part was the helix mentioned above. It's pretty smooth, and it's got great laterals. Good job getting the hybrid look right. It takes some practice. The ride's got a good combination of airtime, laterals, drops and fast turns. The bad: When supporting a ride with terrain, you have to remember that some high sections may not have lateral supports. Though they would be supported if the terrain were lower, the program does not recognize ground height in relation to terrain edits. Take note of your high hills and turns after the first drop. They need some lateral supports. It takes a long time, but the end result looks good. Hybrid support screws with a few things, mainly high-banked turns. The handrails sort of float in the air. You need to connect the supports below them to the handrails. When supporting woodies with terrain, watch the areas where the track is low to the ground. Some footers stick up through the catwalks. The terrain needs work. You could have at least smoothed and eroded some edges. This looks like you just moved everything up in blocks, and I know you did. The water shows that too. Earth doesn't really have many right angles. The section of track below the bunny hop before the lift hill comes really close. I did a tunnel test, and it's dangerously close to not passing. If you're going to throw a block brake in the ride, put it closer to the middle. This coaster is more than 5,000 feet long, but there's only maybe 700 feet after the block brake. Also, put three trains on it if you want to put a block brake in it. E-stop fails. Stop a train in the block brake. The train does not complete the circuit afterward. It rolls back in the following hill. If you need to put trim brakes on the ride, make them on a nonbanking, preferably straight section. Yours are on banked turns, so the brake fin on the train actually would hit the brake calipers. No good. There are many places where the track banks quickly and there are wheel hits. These PTC trains can't handle extremely quick banking. What happens in the program is the wheels go through the metal above them. That's no good. The banking is kind of funny. You can feel every node (the blue dots). The banking is sort of inconsistent in turns. It feels like it's wobbling. Like the banking goes from 35 degrees to 37 then 34 then 37. It's odd. In the editor, I see that you didn't use continuous roll in a few places. I've found that it helps a bit in turns with lots of nodes. If you're going to go underground, your best bet is to use 3D objects. Otherwise, crashing through the ground is kinda goofy. Try working around it or building canyons. The brake run is waaay too short. If a train is sitting in the station, the next train slams into the brakes and just stops. Ouch! That stop hurts! The finale was pretty dull. For such an action-packed coaster, the ending leaves a lot to be desired. You trim the speed in the block brake, then it's just an airtime hill, a turn taken slowly and a really quick, semipainful turn into the brakes. Yawn. I've probably got more, but my fingers hurt. Ha. I hope that helps.

Oh man. Do you want the short critique or the long one?

I don't think it's really a serious concern, but it would slightly cut back on maintenance compared to brakes at a lower position. And think about if Silver Comet went into the brakes lower. It'd be faster, and the brake run would need to be longer or more force applied. I think that's why they're higher like that.

Does anyone remember the Six Flags Worlds of Adventure commercials where the people said they would pass by Cedar Point on the way to SFWoA? Those failed miserably. Would the outcome be different is Cedar Fair had not bought the park? Who knows. But I think Six Flags was putting the park for sale, and Cedar Fair bought it thinking it would be a good investment. Too bad it turned out to be a bad move. I wonder how much Villain and Double Loop will get for scrap.

The only reason I figure they do this is so the brakes are a little higher than they need to be so the train enters them a little slower. Less force is needed in the brakes, so it costs less in maintenance. A small drop into the station isn't a problem.

Cyclone at Lakeside has a long tunnel before the lift, and that's fun. Thunderbolt has an impressive two drops before the chain. Mystery Mine also is really cool. A drop out of the station and a few turns. That's fun. I'll be the first to say Hercules had a pretty cool prelift section. Too bad that was the best part of the ride.

So it'll be super long, use the terrain and trees really well, be over braked and pretty dull? I hope that's just referring to the use of the terrain. And that's what excites me. Flying through threes on a big steel coaster could be sweet. I hope I can visit next season.

I don't know if the second drop will be longer than the first, but it certainly could be around the same length if the ravine is a good size. I'm really excited about this coaster now. A terrain hyper sounds fantastic.

Englishrussia.com: Your source for reliable news out of Russia. There's a lot that could have happened here. This park was probably next to a river that flooded after a heavy rainfall. But it actually appears to be on a lake, and the water level is higher than normal. But forgetting to tell the park that the water level will rise? That's possible, but it's also kind of dumb. It says people had to run from the coaster, but a lake wouldn't fill up that fast. People would be able to see it coming. I'm just saying that site isn't giving us all the information. They're fun pictures, but we don't have the story.

^ Nothing like that has been confirmed yet. The toxicology reports won't be ready for another few weeks.

My friend Doug, his brother and I went to Six Flags Great America on the Fourth of July weekend. I expected the park to be crowded, but it wasn't too bad. We paid the cheaper parking, which was still a ridiculous $15. For $25, you can park closer to the entrance. No thanks. I brought a can of Coke, which saved me $15 on the ticket. Not bad. It was a little crowded getting to the ticket booth, but most booths were open. We went to the Southwest Territory section of the park, home of Raging Bull. This area is themed pretty nicely. Raging Bull was my first B&M hypercoaster since I rode Apollo's Chariot in 1999. I had forgotten how comfortable the seats are. We walked down the long queue and waited near the stairs for a little bit while the ride host there held the line. I'm not sure why they do this if no one with a Flash Pass is coming. We walked up the steps and went to the last row after a wait of maybe 10 minutes. Getting in and out of these trains is so simple. There's no stepping over anything, the restraints are out of the way. It's great. And the seats are so comfortable. I'm in love. The restraints are huge but comfortable and still allow some movement. We left the station and went up the lift. There's good airtime down the first drop. The tunnel is a good highlight. The turn is cool and really high up. The third hill has so much potential, but the trim brakes on it really leave a lot to be desired. I don't know why they're there. They really kick in and even made me move forward in my seat a little bit. But there's airtime down that drop. The next drop is really good. It's steep and drops into a little dip in the terrain. The swooping turn is fun and really intense when the train exits it. The block brake only trims a little speed, and there's airtime exiting it. The next camelback has some airtime in it. The finale is fun. The high turns have good G-forces, and the low turns are great and hug the ground. It's twisted with a few pops of air. Raging Bull is a really good coaster and definitely the best coaster at the park. 8/10. There are some warning signs around the low zones. They look fairly new and are held on with zip ties. I wonder if they were put up in light of the accident at Six Flags Over Georgia. We went to Viper next since it's right next to Raging Bull. The wait was about 15 minutes. We went to the back seat. The lift hill slows down at the top, which was a little disappointing, but this ride's good anyway. It's my favorite Cyclone. There are some small pops of airtime around the ride, but other hills provide good, surprising airtime. My favorite hill was one parallel to the lift hill, which had airtime at the top and then quickly turned to the right, so there are lateral G's while you're floating. The only real criticism I have of Viper is the padding on the sides of the seats. It's not soft like the rest of the seat cushion, so the laterals hurt my ribs a little. But that's not too bad. It's an excellent ride with some surprises. 8/10. Demon was next. We waited about two trains to get on, and we just sat where the shortest line was. It's got a tunnel out of the station to the lift hill. Apparently, this coaster is worth the wait, like ketchup. This is a pretty typical Arrow coaster. Lots of bumps and shakes, strong G's in the loops. The entrance to the first corkscrew was painful, and I banged my head. The tunnels and rock formations around it are pretty cool. 4/10. Then I stood by a statue of a woman holding a shovel. Weird. We went to American Eagle, which has the craziest line ever. You enter near Wiggles World, walk up a few ramps, walk down an insanely long path, walk over a road, walk down more path, turn around, walk some more and up some stairs into the station. This park has really long queues. We went to the back of the red side first. The trains have odd padding on the sides. I don't know why it's there. The red side's lift hill runs slightly faster than the blue sides, so red heads down the drop first. The first drop is really cool. It's farther down than the height of the drop. The train vibrates at the bottom of the drop, which is a weird feeling. It doesn't jackhammer. It's like when it hits the bottom of the drop, all the wheels get cracks in them. The rest of the ride isn't bumpy like that. The first two hills have some good airtime. There's a single brake that really trims speed off the ride before the giant helix turnaround. It seems a bit necessary because the train bumps around toward the end of the helix. The return run is filled with small airtime hills. There's another brake before the helix ending, but that seems needed. The train enters the brake going really fast, so if it weren't there, we'd be tossed to the side and thrown around in that last helix. American Eagle is a good ride, but it could use a little bit of track work. We exited down the LONG path and went back up the LONG entrance to ride the blue side. They run about the same. 6/10. We headed to Iron Wolf, which is B&M's first coaster. I thought that was pretty cool. We waited about 15 or 20 minutes to get to the back seat. This is an odd coaster. It's got a weird support in the first turn, and there's a section of track that looks like it was for a block brake, but nothing's there. There's a lot of headbanging on this ride. I bashed my right ear pretty good before putting my head back and trying to hold it still. I wasn't impressed with this coaster, but I'm glad it was the start to such a great company. 5/10. We tried to get on Spacely's Sprocket Rockets, but it said you need a kid to ride. So we skipped it. Next was Vertical Velocity. I rode Superman: Ultimate Escape at Six Flags Worlds of Adventure, so this wasn't new to me. The wait wasn't too long and only went around the outside of the queue switchbacks. Doug and his brother went to the back row, and I got in two rows in front of them. The next to last row was closed. This is a fun coaster. I like the holding brake a lot. 7/10. B&M's first inverted coaster was next. Batman The Ride is really good. The fire hydrant at the police car was on. I didn't expect that since Magic Mountain's hasn't been on the last few times I've visited. We waited maybe 20 minutes for the back row. It runs two trains, one of which didn't have the wheel covers on. I had forgotten how well these run. It's an extremely smooth ride from start to finish. It's really intense and pulls high G-forces. I like the Batman clones. 8/10. We went to Ragin' Cajun, the Zamperla spinning wild mouse. It's got a low capacity. We waited 50 minutes in the nearly full queue. The spinning on this ride starts about halfway through the ride. The first half is a typical wild mouse with hairpin curves and lateral G's. The spinning starts off really intense with a quick turn. We really spun around! There are a few places with odd turns. One part before the final brakes has a quick turn at ground level where you're tossed around and spun a bit. That was cool. I wish it had a higher capacity and better shade in the queue. The only shade is some trees that you get to near the end of the line. 6/10. We got hungry, so we headed to Mooseburger Lodge, which we saw earlier in the day. I was excited since the Mooseburger at SFMM is really good. I was disappointed when I went in this one because it's more like a cafeteria-style place. We left and looked for a buffet. We found the Crazy Buffalo Saloon. For $15, we got a mediocre buffet. We didn't pay for drinks, so we got cups for water instead. I was a bit disappointed. The buffet isn't too large, and the food wasn't that good. The chicken breast was dry, and the churro was cold. The chicken bits were the best, though they weren't too great. Toward the end of our meal, Scooby-Doo entered the restaurant and got some pictures with kids. Weird. We went to The Dark Knight next, and I got a lemonade before getting in line. This is the new ride for 2008, but it's not too exciting. It's an indoor wild mouse themed to the new Batman movie "The Dark Knight." Most of the queue is indoors, which is great because we waited more than two hours for this. Sheesh! It looks like it's pulling in some crowds, but it's just a wild mouse with some basic theming. The line has some TVs in it, and it's pretty annoying to see the same ads and videos over and over and over for an hour and 40 minutes. I'm sick of seeing "More Flags! More Fun!" We finally got to the preshow room, which was OK. I like that Six Flags is trying some theming. You stand in a room and watch a video of a news conference. The Joker takes it over and edits it so the person doing the conference says they're corrupt or something. It's kind of neat. Then the room goes dark, and lights shine on the walls saying "HaHa" and "Let's put a smile on that face." Doors open, and we're back in line. We walk down a long hallway that has a cool video screen at the end that changes your face to a mask worn by Joker's henchmen. We finally got on. The lift hill is really fast and even speeds up toward the top. But it's just a wild mouse. Hairpin turns in the dark. Eh. The theming is pretty minimal. There are "HaHa" lights around and some flat buildings with clowns on them. One part has holograms of clowns on it, but they turn off when your car passes by. There's some airtime in a few places. It's not worth the wait. 5/10. Superman: Ultimate Flight is right next to The Dark Knight, so we got in line. I had never ridden a B&M flying coaster before, so I was really excited. A security guard gave us boarding passes at the entrance to keep line jumpers from getting on. That's a good idea. Again, there's a long line leading to the station. It gives good visuals as the coaster winds over it. There are some cutouts and signs featuring the superheroes and villains while you wait in line. One I saw had Superman flying, and someone stuck gum next to his head. We went to the back row. I like the restraints. They're comfortable. The leg restraints lock when you pull the harness down, which I thought was cool. The tilting was fun. We saw a lot of coins on the floor. The lift hill is quiet and quick. The first drop is cool, and I really like the visuals you get in that position. The pretzel loop is definitely the best part of the ride. The G-forces in the bottom are completely insane. The rest of the ride is pretty simple, but I liked it. The sensation of flying was cool. The twist at the end was fun, and the brakes aren't crazy and make you slam into the restraint. This is definitely better than the Vekoma flying coasters. They stacked the trains a little when we got to the area before the station, but I didn't mind. I wasn't facing the sun, and the padding is really soft. 8/10. We only had one coaster left, Whizzer. We went there and waited for the back car. People seemed a little confused boarding, so we waited a little longer because people in front of us were trying to ride in the same car. It's got odd seating. One or two people can sit in a seat. I sat in the back seat by myself. I really like these seats. I was able to recline a lot and just relax. The only restraint is a seat belt, which rules. The lift hill is a spiral lift hill, which was pretty cool. Whizzer has some weird inclines. A few of them have kicker tires that I assume are there in case it may roll back. They didn't feel like they were on when we rode. The ride is a series of drops and quick turns through lots of trees, and Doug said that's why it's great at night. The sun was setting, so we decided to go back when it was dark. Whizzer is really fun. 7/10. Doug and I rode Bench: The Ride. Since we'd ridden all the coasters and only had about an hour left until closing, I wanted to ride Raging Bull and Viper again. We went to Viper, which was running well. I really enjoy that coaster. We went to Raging Bull and rode in the back seat. We were giving boarding passes this time. It was running a little faster since it was getting darker. What an excellent ride. I can't wait to ride another B&M hypercoaster. I absolutely love these trains. We walked around to Batman and rode that in the back row. I chose the right outside seat because you whip around in the first drop. Wow, I love Batmans. It's so insanely smooth. What a great design. We only had about 10 minutes left, so we went to Whizzer. The sun had set, and it was flying. The drops through the trees are nearly totally black, and it's a bit colder there. This ride is really good at night. I'm glad a park with so many modern rides has something a bit older. How fun. I was a bit disappointed that we didn't get to ride the double carousel. The Dark Knight really ate up a lot of our time, and the park got a little crowded as the day progressed. The park has a sort of odd layout, but it's not too bad. This park has three outstanding B&Ms and a great wooden coaster. I wouldn't mind if this was my home park. I wish the queues and exits weren't so long. It would be a little difficult to get numerous rides on the coasters because the queues are so long and far away from the exits. But that's not too bad. It just seems like bad planning. I hope to visit again and experience more of the park on a day that isn't so crowded. I'll end this with a shot of Raging Bull. Fun times. This sign looks new; like the park just put it up after the SFOG incident. But it had probably been there since day one. My food from Buffalo Saloon. Meh. We rode Bench: The Ride. It goes through trees. Fun. Whizzer's got a cool lift hill. Twisty goodness Best part of the ride. High G-forces. Superman is pretty great. The Dark Knight is a wild mouse in a box. Don't wait in a long line for it. Scooby interrupts our meal. Disappointing buffet Boo. Long line, low capacity. Whee. Or not. Wheel coverings ... Batman runs extremely well. I like holding brakes. The block brake that isn't. Iron Wolf has this support that's not like B&M at all. What weird padding. Walk six miles to the station. American Eagle looks pretty cool. It looks cool, but the pain. Pain. Ha ha! Airtime! Viper's excellent. Boooo! Brakes suck! Airtime goodness. It'd be better without ... Mmmm. Comfy seats. Six Flags sign!

Well, I'm going to ride everything I can. I'm not going to skip a coaster even if people say it's not that good. But I'll put it low on my priorities because I'd rather get the big coasters out of the way first. I'll see if my friend is up for getting Flash Passes. It's his home park, so he might have strategies to getting around. How is American Eagle running? I've never been on an Intamin woodie (plug 'n' play or normal like this).

Good report. Those lines kind of scare me. My friend persuaded me to come with him to the park on Saturday. I've never been, so I'm going because I want a new experience. But it's a holiday weekend. I'm afraid I won't be able to visit every coaster. So I'll try to prioritize and maybe miss Dark Knight. That doesn't sound too great from your review.

Great post, dude. These dumb lists are rehashed every year. This one's gotta be a few years old, and the people who posted it probably just post it every summer. Did you find this when you signed out of Hotmail? MSN does the same crap, and it's nothing new. They do the same for waterparks, thrill rides, pizza places and nights out. It's the same crazy every time.

Where did you see this? Parks don't release daily attendance figures.

Well, there's nothing much to say. The ride opened, and then it said why it was closed. Might as well quote some losers while they're at it. So with it being open again, I guess that means the department of labor finished inspecting it. Now we just have to see the rest of the investigation. The other person with him was his cousin. I wonder if we'll hear his side of the story. So far, all we're really getting is they were trying to find a shortcut to the ride.

Batman reopened. It's a really quick story just saying it opened, the kid died and some riders' comments. But the ride's back open now, so blah.

^ I imagine there are no warning signs on the perimeter fence because there don't need to be any. The signs are in low zones. To compare to Cedar Point, the far fences outside Raptor don't have signs on them, but the fences surrounding the areas where the ride goes low to the ground do. I imagine that's how SFOG is. Besides, there's a fence there. They hopped two. That's ridiculous in itself. But if someone could confirm that the fences by the ride's low zones have signs, that'd be great.

Don't bring the McDonald's coffee incident into this. That's tired and worn, and it's not comparable to this in the least.