TriboElectric Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Let's all just stop ragging on each other, obviously this is big big news and we need to determine just what the ramifications are going to be. Let's pool together our resources and determine who owns the land. With a bit of Google searching public records I am sure we can figure it out. Let's work together to get all the facts on the table here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterjunkie91350 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 B.G used to owm mm right and cf is its rival in the so called coaster wars who would you want to take over for sf i personally want c.f to buy the park at least they will be able to keep the rides going with 3 train operation and they and do something about the gang members that show up there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptorcrew2002 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Only thing I could see that would directly kill MM, is operational costs, labor maintenance, and property value. How many years would it take for that property to make as much as it could get in one sale, which could be 20+ seasons in one hit. I mean what companies could afford to #1. purchase and #2. upgrade it to their standards. CF, not a chance they just bought Paramount’s parks. AB, I don’t think they would want to mess with all the work required to try and theme it. GE, Fat chance, odds are they will sell the Universal parks as soon as they get a chance. I think they will keep MM, but I agree on the possible name change idea to sell in a different market. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Sabo Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Bill Gates is actually a shareholder in the 6 Flags chain (as well as Fidelity Investments who has almost the majority of the shares). I will look for the link on the remaining shareholders (and ownership percentages), but the weblink is down for maintenance at the moment. To add to the quandry of posts, here is another reason for the possible sale in todays money-article: ***NEW YORK (AP) - Shares of amusement park owner Six Flags Inc. plunged in aftermarket activity Thursday, after the company said it may fail to comply to certain bank credit covenants and believes reaching its previous EBITDA forecast will be "extremely difficult." Six Flags, citing lower park attendance and rising costs, also said it is exploring strategic options for six of its properties around the country.*** Credit Link: http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.asp?feed=AP&date=20060622&id=5818948 *Edit: The link is back online: Shareholder breakdown list: http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/invsub/ownership/ownership.asp?Symbol=SIX (Bill Gates has 2 groups under his shareholder listings). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhishyBrewer Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 AB, I don’t think they would want to mess with all the work required to try and theme it. You've got that right. With 25+ new products hitting the market this year... more theme parks is the last thing on Auggie's mind. That... and the new Budweiser BBQ sauce that is coming out July 1st Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriboElectric Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Good info. Well I guess Bill wants whats best for his money which doesnt bode to well for my hopes that he buys the park for his son Oh well. Hmm I am looking forward to what Robb thinks about this matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterjunkie91350 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 robb might be a little upset about possibly loseing his homepark but he might support what the co is doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhishyBrewer Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 robb might be a little upset about possibly loseing his homepark but he might support what the co is doing Let it burn!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Article from the LA Times. I bolded some interesting parts. Six Flags Inc. said Thursday that it might sell its Magic Mountain and Hurricane Harbor amusement parks in Valencia and raised the possibility that they could be dismantled for real estate development. Facing mounting losses and declining attendance, Six Flags wants to reduce its $2.1 billion in debt by selling parks in Buffalo, N.Y.; Denver; Seattle; Houston; and Concord, Calif., in addition to Magic Mountain. ADVERTISEMENT Mark Shapiro, a former ESPN executive who is now Six Flags' chief executive, said in a conference call with investors Thursday that Magic Mountain was considered a candidate for sale partly because of its often rowdy teenage atmosphere. After a proxy battle last year that saw Washington Redskins owner Dan Snyder win control of Six Flags and install new managers, the New York company is changing its thrill-ride focus to family entertainment. Unruly behavior by the teens, who gravitate to the giant dips and turns of Magic Mountain's 17 roller coasters, have driven families away from the theme park, Shapiro said. "Once you burn Mom, she is not rushing back," Shapiro said. Throughout Six Flags' 30 amusement and water parks, Shapiro said he wanted to reduce the company's reliance on "teens that drive our security problems … who loiter in the park, hate my no-smoking policy and don't spend money." Though Six Flags could invest in Magic Mountain to transform it into a family-style park, Shapiro noted that the Southern California market was already crowded with family attractions, including Walt Disney Co.'s two parks in Anaheim, Knott's Berry Farm in Buena Park and Universal Studios Hollywood. In evaluating which parks to sell, Shapiro also looked at whether they were on valuable real estate. Shapiro said the sales would have to garner more than $500 million to be worthwhile. Buildable parcels in Valencia sell for $750,000 to $1 million an acre, said Michael Adler, president of Adler Realty Investments Inc. in Woodland Hills. The potential for converting the 250-acre parcel into homes and retail centers would have developers "lining up to bid," Adler said. "This would be a great opportunity for a mixed-use development," said Adler, who has a 150-home development underway in Valencia. "I would be a bidder." The property could be worth $200 million or more, depending on whether it continues as an amusement complex or is redeveloped, according to theme park and real estate executives. Shapiro said the property could also remain a theme park. He said another operator might be more comfortable with Magic Mountain's thrill-ride niche and the teenage behavior that comes with it. Magic Mountain attracts 2.5 million to 3 million guests a year and is considered a profitable property, said John Cora, a theme park consultant and CEO of Palace Entertainment, which owns Raging Waters in San Dimas and the Boomer's chain of family entertainment centers. "With a little TLC and investment, it would be a great park and a great revenue producer," Cora said. Potential bidders could include private equity investors such as Blackstone Group, which owns the four Legoland properties and has a stake in the Universal Studios theme parks, Cora said. But coaster enthusiast Eric Gieszl of Tustin doubted that another operator could compete with the real estate bidders. "They would have to pay too much and would never recoup their investment," said Gieszl, who operates the website Ultimate Rollercoaster.com. "This looks like a loss for L.A. coaster fans." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriboElectric Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Wow another very seriously depressing article. Crap! This is not looking good at the moment. Not good at all. I wonder how much we could buy X for, I would hate to see the world lose the one of the only two 4-d's. This could turn out to be a great great day for Cedar Faire and Disney losing a major competitor in LA. If I were them I would ditch Knotts and take MM. Or purchase some of the rides and take them to Knotts, (Batman, Goliath, X, Riddlers, Tatsu(due to terrain considerations I do not think that will be possible though) , throw in FreeFall (does not need much space and could purchase it for cheap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeemerBoy Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 ^ Actually, major competition is not necessarily a bad thing. Example: Orlando. Disney doesn't suffer from sharing a region with Busch and Universal. Variety and competition help to build a "vacation destination." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weatherkid17 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 if six flags were going to start selling rides, i highly doubt they would sell their ones that arent terrain constructed, such as X and superman, rather move them to other parks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
map2 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Wow another very seriously depressing article. Crap! This is not looking good at the moment. Not good at all. I wonder how much we could buy X for, I would hate to see the world lose the one of the only two 4-d's. This could turn out to be a great great day for Cedar Faire and Disney losing a major competitor in LA. If I were them I would ditch Knotts and take MM. Or purchase some of the rides and take them to Knotts, (Batman, Goliath, X, Riddlers, Tatsu(due to terrain considerations I do not think that will be possible though) , throw in FreeFall (does not need much space and could purchase it for cheap This article is the exact same as the statement Sharpio gave, except this was put in the newspaper for the people who do not look at the six flags website. but nothing is said and done, so saying that your going to move or your going to buy off some of the rides is pointless right now. we still don't know. for all we know, Sharpio could be selling off the other SF parks and keeping SFMM., we just don't know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dailey Enterprizes Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 There is hope to some of the New York Six Flags parks. Kennywood, I hear, might put a bid on a park like Darien Lake if it goes up for-sale. I doubt they'll ever sell Six Flags Great Escape since it fits perfectly with their new plans of a family park co., but whatever happens y'know, I'm just spectulating what could happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptorcrew2002 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I mean really, the only reason they even made the idea public was to see who might knock on the door, or show up under the table "Monica?" with offers. And if the park is sold, and not auctioned off like I would expect, I would love to see Kennywood Entertainment make an offer. Just because in the 90's Premier tried to buy KW, KW told them to get screwed, and then out bid KW on Geauga Lake. Ahh vindication. But I know it would never happen.. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 In this case I think Shapiro would be wrong to sell it. Even if they can't turn all the parks into the image they want, as long as it turns a profit they should keep it. And even still, they could turn it into the park they want, it would just take awhile, but at least they would always have a goal to shoot for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterjunkie91350 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 guys im done voicing my opinion on the apparent death of magic mountain if it happens it happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mummyjohn Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 There is no way they could scrap Magic Mountain, and it's hard to consider selling it: It's very profitiable, and one of the most visited. It has super valuable history: first 100mph coaster, first inversion ever, first 4-D. You'd have a heck of a lot of REALLY pissed off Californians (you don't want Arnold mad at you). Even if they sold it, there's still the massive possibility of someone buying it. If they were to tear it down, we'd have to find someone with a couple million to buy Revvy and reconstruct it in his backyard for all to ride, for eternity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
map2 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 trying to make six flags a family park will defineatly take time. but you don't start with adding family rides, and selling off parks, you start off with adding better employees. six flags wants a better atmossphere, but they should start with their employees. instead of hiring just anyone, hire more people who enjoy their work. of course six flags has those employees, but its the employees who have an attitude are the ones you remember. start off with that and then see how it effects the atomsphere. also clean the park and make security tighter. get rid of flashback, psyclone, dropout, and all the other rides that have not been operating, or operating well. but like i keep saying we don't know if SFMM will be sold, we don't even know if any of the parks will be sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterjunkie91350 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 hey demo flashback and expand bugs bunny world god the mom fanbase would have a reason to come back to six flags that what mark is attempting to do with this controversal move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriboElectric Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 How do we find out who owns the land in valencia? Is there a property title database that we can access? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriboElectric Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Ok, did some research, most people probably already know about the biggest housing project in LA county history occuring right next door to Magic Mountain. The Newhall Ranch project with over 25,000 homes being built, it has all been approved. If you look at the website of the developer and then click on the "Living Here" and then "Location Map" you will see this huge new development lies right next door to MM. For Snyders corporation and for the developers at Newhall this might just be the end. Click on Http://www.newhallranch.net/index.asp I wish I could be more positive but with the urban sprawl model and with money being a factor I just seem to be really negative right now. I know this is probably not what we need but I have to be honest withmyself and others. Once again the link for the developer of Newhall ranch the 25,000 home community being built right next door to magic mountain. http://www.newhallranch.net/index.asp go to Living here and then Location map for an idea of what I am talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
map2 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 maybe if you speak to the superintendent of SFMM he could teel you. will sfmm be torn down? probably not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coasterjunkie91350 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 robb? do you have any opinion on this dark twist of events? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriboElectric Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I wonder if they timed this announcement to occur while Robb was away on vacation! One thing that could possibly be the saving grace for MM is the fact that with the Newhall Development perhaps Valencia will not allow any more than the 25,000 homes being authorized! That might help us out here! Because if developers cannot develop more homes on MM property then it would not be worth it for them. Of course they could always just pay off the city hall and then it would be a moot point anyways. Well let's hope for the best here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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