Six Flags St. Louis (SFStL) Discussion Thread

[Vonni]

I'd love to see an awesome new coaster where Old Glory is. (Dont come for me. I KNOW it isnt going to happen). 

[Danrarbc]

2 hours ago, SteveStL said:

Bummer... seems a waste of space and revenue stream

There are some parks still drawing artists to their amphitheaters. But really even before COVID so many of them out there were used far less than in the past, Old Glory was barely used even before COVID - mostly cheer and band stuff for schools. And some parks are eliminating them. Dr. Diabolical’s is being built on a portion of what was essentially Fiesta's amphitheater.

Edited April 26, 2022 by Danrarbc
Making more clear that not all of the venue is gone.

[bert425]

42 minutes ago, Danrarbc said:

There are some parks still drawing artists to their amphitheaters. But really even before COVID so many of them out there were used far less than in the past, Old Glory was barely used even before COVID - mostly cheer and band stuff for schools. And some parks are eliminating them. Dr. Diabolical’s is being built on what was essentially Fiesta's amphitheater.

NOPE.

 

Dr Diabolical is being built on what was the Sundance Theater *one* of several outdoor amphitheaters at the park.

Fiesta still has 4 outdoor theaters - circled in Green below: the Amphitheater in Lost Festivales (used multiple times a day), the Small kids stage in "thrillseeker park", the stage in front of Rockville High (also used thruout the day for standing room shows), and the biggest amphitheater - the one used for concerts -  Lone Star Lil's (which they just totally refurbed the covered seating area in) gets used for Fireworks seating (on the lawn) , and books concerts and shows still. . . . literally right next door to Dr. Diabolical.

not to mention the 3 indoor theaters (two of which are big - Rockville High & Zaragoza, and one indoor stage in the Sangerfest Halle - all circled in blue below.


 

 

Edit to add:  there's also a small indoor stage in "the Thirsty Buffalo" bar (#89 on the upper right of the map), that has a piano player and "saloon girls" show)

[Danrarbc]

Yes Sundance is gone but it's also being built on close to half of the grass seating for the largest outdoor venue. 

[teacherkim]

 In 2016 the head PR person at the park told me that part of the problem was that the bands people were able/willing to pay to see had such high performance prices that it wasn't financially feasible anymore and bands with lower costs just didn't sell enough tickets (or tickets at a high enough price) to cover the cost. So essentially the park would lose money on most performances. The days of the park providing a "free" show are also no longer cost effective for them. She also indicated that the bands the park could afford to pay brought in a crowd that created a lot of security issues. So in other words higher costs for musicians coupled with worsening crowd behavior pretty much made all performances untenable.

At that time other than the cheer and band performances, they were still having the Christian music festivals, although I cannot remember if those were free with park entrance or an extra cost.......I'm sure someone on here remembers.

Too bad. I can remember seeing Chuck Berry play there around 1974 or 1975, when I was 6 or 7 years old. My Dad insisted on getting there super early to get good seats and it was so hot my Grandmother's cheap hair dye started to melt and run down her face, lol. I can also remember, like a lot of you I'm sure, seeing some great bands in the 70's and 80's there.

It bums me out but if there is no way to resolve that, and it doesn't appear that there is, then I say use the space for something new. It's just a waste and kind of sad to see it sitting there empty plus makes the park junky looking when there is no reason to maintain it.

[bert425]

25 minutes ago, Danrarbc said:

Yes Sundance is gone but it's also being built on close to half of the grass seating for the largest outdoor venue. 

again. .NOT really a true statement.

it's being built on what was Sundance backstage, and *maybe* 15 feet of grass that some could sit on, but was never the "main seating" for Lone Star Lils.

the main grass seating area is still there for Lone Star Lils. . . was just on it the other day for a tour of Dr. D's station build:

the back rows of LSLs and the station for Dr D's being built

 

the grass seating for LSLs. . you can see how much is avail. still.

 

SFFT is my home park. . been going there for decades, and go pretty frequently

[bert425]

and interestingly (or maybe because of all the spybots ). . . we're having this discussion, and I just got this tweet from Kings Island:

 

 

[Danrarbc]

2 hours ago, bert425 said:

again. .NOT really a true statement.

it's being built on what was Sundance backstage, and *maybe* 15 feet of grass that some could sit on, but was never the "main seating" for Lone Star Lils.

Both the park map and your construction photo indicate most of the grass north of that central path being used. That isn't half of the total grass field but it is easily a third or more of the total area with a good stage view. It's absolutely correct that a good portion of the grass seating is being used. My error was not making it clear enough in the first comment that it was only a portion being used, not the entire amphitheater. 

Edit: I'll agree to make this my last post on the land usage of Dr Diabolical. We don't agree on the scale of the red area. That's going to be a capacity reduction of 800 potential concert-goers at a venue likely able to hold 3000-4000 (~2500 on the old grass berm - I'm most unsure of the capacity under the canopy).

[bert425]

Lone Star Lil's is an open theater. . .the main seating has always been on the side. . . not what you seem to think was main seating.

but oh well. . why bother arguing with an "expert" who doesn't live here, and is not a park regular for the past couple of decades.

I mean, you CLEARLY know better than I.

[SteveStL]

1 hour ago, teacherkim said:

 In 2016 the head PR person at the park told me that part of the problem was that the bands people were able/willing to pay to see had such high performance prices that it wasn't financially feasible anymore and bands with lower costs just didn't sell enough tickets (or tickets at a high enough price) to cover the cost. So essentially the park would lose money on most performances. The days of the park providing a "free" show are also no longer cost effective for them. She also indicated that the bands the park could afford to pay brought in a crowd that created a lot of security issues. So in other words higher costs for musicians coupled with worsening crowd behavior pretty much made all performances untenable.

At that time other than the cheer and band performances, they were still having the Christian music festivals, although I cannot remember if those were free with park entrance or an extra cost.......I'm sure someone on here remembers.

Too bad. I can remember seeing Chuck Berry play there around 1974 or 1975, when I was 6 or 7 years old. My Dad insisted on getting there super early to get good seats and it was so hot my Grandmother's cheap hair dye started to melt and run down her face, lol. I can also remember, like a lot of you I'm sure, seeing some great bands in the 70's and 80's there.

It bums me out but if there is no way to resolve that, and it doesn't appear that there is, then I say use the space for something new. It's just a waste and kind of sad to see it sitting there empty plus makes the park junky looking when there is no reason to maintain it.

That's too bad.... I have seen a few concerts as well at our park.   ...and I hate hearing about security issues too.  Seems like folks just can't get along anymore. 

[SF3582]

I saw a lot of shows working there and as for the crowds causing issues- 2 shows- Charlie Daniels Band and Andy Gibb- those were some really eventful nights.

[bert425]

I really hope that Excalibur opens back up and I get a chance to ride it at some point

[Dan the Coaster Man]

Excalibur is pretty fun, a little dizzying but I will always give it a ride if it is open

[prozach626]

On 4/25/2022 at 8:05 PM, teacherkim said:

BUT people that don't care will come to the park anyway, you might complain about it not being open but you will still come to the park and bring your daughter AND as I said I happen to know some people that will come just for that. People that will spend money and buy carousel merch if they choose to sell some. Plus the park saves something of historical significance. I think there is great value in showcasing one of the earliest types of rides, one that has a particular history to a much beloved company in PTC, and true craftmanship. It's a kind of community service to renovate something so beautiful. Improvements like this one make the park a much classier, more beautiful place which does affect how people view their experience even if they don't pinpoint the exact reason why. Part of the reason people love HW so much is the overall atmosphere, also why Indiana Beach was considered so poor......I mean the place is kind of a shithole, although hopefully making steady improvements. Beautification matter IMHO.

It's about priorities. Spending this much time and effort on one of the few family attractions and leaving it down for years is dumb. I was pretty excited at first, but this is excessive. I'd rather they half-ass it to keep it open or pay the money to do it in an acceptable amount of time. The thing is going to be in shit shape again ten years from now, anyway. If you spend this amount of time, energy, and money on something like this, a guest had better damned well be able to pinpoint the carousel making a difference.

And come on... How many people are really going to come for this?

My wife and I were reading a book to our daughter, published by Knoebels. The story was about how the flood wrecked the park, and one of the highlights was about how damaged the carousel was... but it was fixed that season... As our daughter held her little Kozmo stuffed animal and I read the story, my wife and I laughed. The timing was perfect.

 

  

15 hours ago, bert425 said:

and interestingly (or maybe because of all the spybots ). . . we're having this discussion, and I just got this tweet from Kings Island:

 

 

LMFAO. It's like they're mocking the park. Kings Island crushing it, as usual. Just a phenomenal park.

[prozach626]

11 hours ago, bert425 said:

I really hope that Excalibur opens back up and I get a chance to ride it at some point

Yeah. I was actually looking forward to my daughter watching it cycle, since she really seems to like watching the big rides, but you know... like the carousel, it was closed. I guess we can't even watch an existing ride cycle. Hopefully when the horsies are all painted and finished they'll be in operation for more than a season before going down for a couple more years.

I wonder which ride will be next to be closed for a couple years. Maybe they're working on another Hannibarrel situation.

[SteveStL]

There is a Mule shortage Zack, haven't you heard?  Everything goes to hell when Mules aren't readily available.

[teacherkim]

11 hours ago, prozach626 said:

It's about priorities. Spending this much time and effort on one of the few family attractions and leaving it down for years is dumb. I was pretty excited at first, but this is excessive. I'd rather they half-ass it to keep it open or pay the money to do it in an acceptable amount of time. The thing is going to be in shit shape again ten years from now, anyway. If you spend this amount of time, energy, and money on something like this, a guest had better damned well be able to pinpoint the carousel making a difference.

And come on... How many people are really going to come for this?

My wife and I were reading a book to our daughter, published by Knoebels. The story was about how the flood wrecked the park, and one of the highlights was about how damaged the carousel was... but it was fixed that season... As our daughter held her little Kozmo stuffed animal and I read the story, my wife and I laughed. The timing was perfect.

 

  

LMFAO. It's like they're mocking the park. Kings Island crushing it, as usual. Just a phenomenal park.

Zach, we will just have to agree to disagree, no hard feelings! I realize there are occasionally practical situations where something is better than nothing but I just cannot agree to a half ass it refurbishment being better than taking the time to do it correctly. I'm willing to have patience and wait.

I realize you might have a fair argument is saying that's fine for me since I no longer have a young child but when my son was the same age as your daughter they still had the extremely crappy old blacktop kid's area over by the log flume. He doesn't remember a thing about it, by the time he was 3 or 4 and old enough to have some real memories the new Bugs land was opened and it will be the same for your daughter. By the time she's old enough to remember, the carousel will be open.

I will say I think Knoebels is not a totally fair comparison. They had to fix a VERY well maintained but damaged carousel, not do a complete refurb on one that had been mostly neglected for decades. Also, the Knoebel's family has a lot of money to throw at just one park. The reason no one else had taken on building a ride like Flying Turns is that it is a maintenance nightmare that actually makes them no money. They just have it because Dick K wanted it and doesn't care that there is no profit from it. Not sure it will survive long after he is no longer with us. That is from a direct conversation with the head maintenance guy there who actually trained his own son specifically to take care of the ride, saw on a bts tour what they have to go through to just warm that sucker up for daily operations and it is super labor intensive.  

I am glad you will be able to enjoy park time with your daughter, one of the things I treasure most from having summers off most of my life is all the memories at various parks with my son.

*Ironically in my son's lifetime he went from loving to ride things in Bugs to running rides in Bugs and hating it, partially due to the annoying theme music stuck forever in his head, lol. And more seriously being the brunt of several Karen like parents screaming at him about stuff completely out of his control.

[teacherkim]

23 hours ago, SF3582 said:

I saw a lot of shows working there and as for the crowds causing issues- 2 shows- Charlie Daniels Band and Andy Gibb- those were some really eventful nights.

Andy Gibb, lol, doesn't strike me as the rowdiest fans since it was mostly 13 year old girls. Course they can be deceptively dangerous! All this discussion of theme park theaters and all I can think of is the scene in Spinal Tap when they get booked at the amusement park and almost no one is there........I think that was filmed at SFMM?...

[Danrarbc]

Mini report.

Catwoman looks on target for Memorial Day.

 

Not much change for Eagle's new ramp.

 

Made it over to American Thunder and there are new walls and gates up around the Moon site. Wonder what this could be for? Haunt?

[SteveStL]

Guessing the fence is to block the view of the old Moon Car Track.  If so, Classy

[Danrarbc]

1 hour ago, SteveStL said:

Guessing the fence is to block the view of the old Moon Car Track.  If so, Classy

There's new concrete back there and they don't have the old raw track either. It looked fine without the fence. It could just be to block view of the empty area, but having new concrete not just behind it but be visible to guests under the fence kinda defeats that purpose of blocking the area.

Theres gotta be a use for it in mind. Just not sure if it's something guests may use or if it's just storage or something.

 

[SteveStL]

Mysterious

[gnucksjr]

At the park today… I think I figured out why Freeze was closed for so long .

[bert425]

^and what are we looking at?

[AmyUD06]

14 minutes ago, gnucksjr said:

At the park today… I think I figured out why Freeze was closed for so long .

 

It was closed for so long because it caught on fire, not whatever silly thing you were trying to prove.