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Why hasn't B&M gone for more than 7 inversions since 1995?


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This is a doubt i've had in my mind for quite some time, for there are so many possible answers that would be really interesting if true... Dragon Khan first opened 1995 and B&M hasn't ever made more than 7 inversions ever since. Did the project not end up being what B&M expected it to be, even if it was the coaster with the most inversions at the time and quite an important reason for the park's success, or is it some kind of sense of "specialness" they may still be trying to give DK for whatever reason?

 

Also: Years ago, I read on the internet that PortAventura's initial project included something like one more coaster or such, and that Dragon Khan was actually supposed to be a Vekoma Multi-Looper with interlocking loops. Apparently, they went for the more expensive B&M at the end, but with the zero-g-roll interlocked with a second loop (making for a reason for the additional loop to exist), as a tribute to what Dragon Khan was initially meant to be. I don't know if this last bit is true, but oh would that be beautiful.

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B&M would build a ride with more than 7 inversions if a park wanted it. So the better question is why don’t any parks want a B&M with more than 7 inversions.

 

I mean, there are only a handful of coasters in the world with 8+ inversions, and Intamin and Gerstlauer are the only companies making them (I think - I’m sure someone will chime in if there’s another) B&Ms are a lot more expensive than ether of those companies, so I’m sure that’s the main reason.

 

Edit - looks like S&S is trying their hand at 9 inversions wth Steel Curtain, but my point still stands - B&M is by far the priciest way to go about getting a big looper.

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B&M would build a ride with more than 7 inversions if a park wanted it. So the better question is why don’t any parks want a B&M with more than 7 inversions.

 

You're probably right, in fact I don't think they may be putting such limits over what clients want from them as may be extrapolated from the OP, your question still could make for a thread. I understand that 7 inversions is a good standard for the number of elements it implies but still, it's been 24 years and no park has ever asked for one?

 

EDIT: Woops, saw your edit right now, I just can't disagree with how price is something to take into account, they're paying for some top-notch quality after all, I'm not sure if it would make *much* of a difference but it's for certain that 7 inversions are well enough, so why bother I guess.

This whole conversation would beef up the theory of Dragon Khan having 8 inversions as a remanent of a previous project that was discarded for B&M to come in, and that makes me kind of happy seeing the amazing skyline that it end up bringing when Shambhala was built, haha.

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Traditional multi-loopers aren't popular anymore. Most of this decade's big, scary looping coasters have some sort of gimmick to them, whether it's a launch, a beyond-vertical drop, or a unique seating arrangement. Back in the 80s / 90s, the inversions were marketable AS the gimmick. Today, not so much, and that's a shame, because I would love to see B&M do another Kumba or another Dragon Khan.

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B&M also receives a lot flack over its inversion heavy designs. Most of there multi loopers consist of the same 5 elements usually just in a slightly different order. Now imagine adding 2 more inversions to an already inversion heavy floorless coaster which the only thing it does is invert. Something like Steel Curtain yes has 9 inversions but the layout does not seem inversion happy to me. It has a lot of other elements thrown in.

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This is a doubt i've had in my mind for quite some time, for there are so many possible answers that would be really interesting if true... Dragon Khan first opened 1995 and B&M hasn't ever made more than 7 inversions ever since. Did the project not end up being what B&M expected it to be, even if it was the coaster with the most inversions at the time and quite an important reason for the park's success, or is it some kind of sense of "specialness" they may still be trying to give DK for whatever reason?

 

Also: Years ago, I read on the internet that PortAventura's initial project included something like one more coaster or such, and that Dragon Khan was actually supposed to be a Vekoma Multi-Looper with interlocking loops. Apparently, they went for the more expensive B&M at the end, but with the zero-g-roll interlocked with a second loop (making for a reason for the additional loop to exist), as a tribute to what Dragon Khan was initially meant to be. I don't know if this last bit is true, but oh would that be beautiful.

 

To me, I think that even seven inversions is pushing it. With their old school floorless, inverts, and Kumba, pretty much the entire ride is inversion after inversion with the other pieces just being a drop, MCBR, and transitional pieces to get you from one inversion to inversion. Not much else really goes on. If you like inversions, great, but otherwise it makes for a relatively dull ride once you've been on a bunch of coasters with seven inversion. Granted, their new coasters tend to have six outside of the dive machines or hypers, but I could see have seven is overkill.

 

Me personally, I think that coasters are best served when they cap out of three. That's the golden number I think. Four is fine too. That's one of the reasons I love RMC so much. They get me. Its about substance, airtime, and fun, and not just pointless inversion after inversion. But you still get the awesome inversions too.

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Not much else really goes on. If you like inversions, great, but otherwise it makes for a relatively dull ride once you've been on a bunch of coasters with seven inversion.

Kumba, Alpengeist, Montu, et al are pretty much the opposite of dull. They kind of meander around a bit after their last inversions but that doesn't make them any less exhilarating.

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Not much else really goes on. If you like inversions, great, but otherwise it makes for a relatively dull ride once you've been on a bunch of coasters with seven inversion.

Kumba, Alpengeist, Montu, et al are pretty much the opposite of dull. They kind of meander around a bit after their last inversions but that doesn't make them any less exhilarating.

 

Not saying that I hate the rides. I could just take more of the "meandering" and less of the pointless inversions. Kumba for example:

 

Vertical loop is awesome, especially because its the closest thing that you get to hangtime in the park

Dive loop is fine

0-G roll is fun... not as good as the newer generations one (prefer it to me more flat to get the 0 G feeling or more of a stall to get hangtime), but fine for its era

Cobra roll is pointless

Interlocking corkscrews are pointless

 

BGT is my home park now, and I've been on Kumba 15 times in the past year so I think I have a pretty strong handle on the layout. I'll be at BGT again tomorrow, and I'll come back to this thread with more of my thoughts.

 

I actually do like Montu and Alpengeist a lot though, but again, I'd probably be happier with just keeping the best 3-4 inversions and keeping the rest of the track length as fun, fast "meandering."

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0-G roll is fun... not as good as the newer generations one (prefer it to me more flat to get the 0 G feeling or more of a stall to get hangtime), but fine for its era

 

Speak for yourself. You can keep those floaty barrel rolls or whatever. I'll take Kumba's zero G roll that tries to kill everyone on the train over any inversion I've ever experienced on any coaster ever. It's ridiculous.

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0-G roll is fun... not as good as the newer generations one (prefer it to me more flat to get the 0 G feeling or more of a stall to get hangtime), but fine for its era

 

Speak for yourself. You can keep those floaty barrel rolls or whatever. I'll take Kumba's zero G roll that tries to kill everyone on the train over any inversion I've ever experienced on any coaster ever. It's ridiculous.

 

I respect that. No two coaster enthusiasts have the same preferences. No hate over here for you.

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Speak for yourself. You can keep those floaty barrel rolls or whatever. I'll take Kumba's zero G roll that tries to kill everyone on the train over any inversion I've ever experienced on any coaster ever. It's ridiculous.

Agreed. Every time I ride through Kraken's roll on an end seat and get pulled up and out a bit, I'm reminded that Kumba's roll is just on such a higher level. Nearly everything about that blasted coaster is a complete riot. It's one of only three coasters where I have had to legitimately catch my breath at the end, the other two being Skyrush and Twisted Cyclone.

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No disrespect at all, but I think you're the first person I've ever seen call Kumba and Montu not exciting. I guess they didn't really do a lot for Emily and I, but not for lack of the action packed layout. To each his own.

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I respect that. No two coaster enthusiasts have the same preferences. No hate over here for you.

 

Well yeah, I wasn't anticipating this disagreement on zero-G rolls leading to a long, drawn out internet beef. I don't even know the first thing about dropping fire diss tracks.

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B&M would build a ride with more than 7 inversions if a park wanted it.

 

This is exactly it. Parks either express their intended design or desired elements to a specific vendor/ride manufacturer or they open up to RFPs for designs to fill a designated plot of land or need (Energylandia did the RFP process for the coaster that ended up becoming Hyperion, with different manufacturers proposing unique designs). It comes down to the parks and their intentions... Most parks that are smart enough will also do serious surveys and guest studies to determine if a coaster of a higher intensity (like one with a high number of inversions) will suit their clientele... If it isn't going to be a draw for their primary audience, it isn't going to be worth the major investment that such an addition calls for.

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0-G roll is fun... not as good as the newer generations one (prefer it to me more flat to get the 0 G feeling or more of a stall to get hangtime), but fine for its era

 

Speak for yourself. You can keep those floaty barrel rolls or whatever. I'll take Kumba's zero G roll that tries to kill everyone on the train over any inversion I've ever experienced on any coaster ever. It's ridiculous.

 

Haha agree. While I haven't been on kumba I've ridden dragon Khan and its zero g roll is by far my favourite. It's ridiculous how close you get to the actual upside down bit before even starting to twist. And then you're violently thrown around while floating out of your seat at the same time.

 

Overall I agree that's it's just the park's choice. I personally really like multi inversions coasters but if that's not the case with the majority of park guests then it's not worth building one

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You ride a Rocky Mountain coaster and everything flows so well that you don't realize you're in an inversion until you're actually upside down. You ride, say, HangTime at Knott's where you come out of a cobra roll, traditionally a half-way point of a looping coaster, right into the final brake run.

 

It's not that multi-inversion coasters aren't popular anymore, because they ARE still popular. It's just that the inversions themselves are now so seamlessly integrated into the layouts of this decade's new coasters.

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^They definitely still are. However, even though we have seen a few coasters break inversion records recently I'd say most modern coasters tend to feature more of a mix between inversions, airtime hills, twists and turns and so on. Which is definitely not bad. I love rides like helix which, despite having quite a lot of inversions, manage to throw a few other types of elements in there (like airtime moments).

 

I'm interested in finding out how steel curtain curtain turns out because, in my opinion, it's the only coaster in a few years that manages to have a lot of inversions without basically being two rides glued together (like Smiler) or having 5 of the same inversions (like the intamins)

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^I'm curious about Steel Curtain too. It really doesn't have a similar layout to any other looping coaster. It has tons of inversions, but not where it's gimmicky/repetitive (Intamin 10-loopers) or back-to-back inversions with little stuff inbetween (B&Ms). I would love for it to be successful and see S&S rise in the traditional looping coaster business.

 

As for B&M, if a park wanted a completely loopy coaster and had a high budget, I'm sure B&M would have no issue creating one. I think it's just a matter of demand and fitting the park's needs and price point.

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As for B&M, if a park wanted a completely loopy coaster and had a high budget, I'm sure B&M would have no issue creating one. I think it's just a matter of demand and fitting the park's needs and price point.

 

I think this is right on. How many parks with a B&M 7-looper budget don't have one already?

 

Parks are either working with less expensive companies for their inversion-heavy rides, or they're filling out their lineup with other B&M products.

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As for B&M, if a park wanted a completely loopy coaster and had a high budget, I'm sure B&M would have no issue creating one. I think it's just a matter of demand and fitting the park's needs and price point.

 

I think this is right on. How many parks with a B&M 7-looper budget don't have one already?

 

Parks are either working with less expensive companies for their inversion-heavy rides, or they're filling out their lineup with other B&M products.

 

Or a third option:

 

The park has tons of money, they have no loopy B&M coasters, but they have figured that they can make a ton of more money building other stuff. A prime example is Disney... all the money in the world, but they sink that money into the heavily themed stuff that everyone in the family can ride and enjoy.

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I think this is right on. How many parks with a B&M 7-looper budget don't have one already?

 

Parks are either working with less expensive companies for their inversion-heavy rides, or they're filling out their lineup with other B&M products.

 

I think its more whats the point that anything else, why bother with a B&M 7 looper when new designs from Vekoma are much cheaper, or get a Gerstlauer with maybe 5 inversions but you get a beyond vertical drop as a bonus for half the price. I think B&M is just a bit too expensive really for growing parks, almost all B&Ms are now only going to established parks or Chinese new builds with lots of money to spend.

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I think this is right on. How many parks with a B&M 7-looper budget don't have one already?

 

Parks are either working with less expensive companies for their inversion-heavy rides, or they're filling out their lineup with other B&M products.

 

I think its more whats the point that anything else, why bother with a B&M 7 looper when new designs from Vekoma are much cheaper, or get a Gerstlauer with maybe 5 inversions but you get a beyond vertical drop as a bonus for half the price. I think B&M is just a bit too expensive really for growing parks, almost all B&Ms are now only going to established parks or Chinese new builds with lots of money to spend.

 

Tell that to Kennywood. Opening not only a coaster with 7+ inversions, not just 8+ inversions, but 9 inversions. Breaking the American record by two. They're prolific, but still considered to be a smaller, family discount park.

 

Theming to the ride is puke worthy though.

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^I'd guess S&S coasters are not quite as expensive as B&Ms, especially as they haven't really done anything like this before. I'm not saying that this ride is going to be cheap but probably not quite the same a similar B&M would cost.

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