Sir Coaster Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 With the recent unveiling of Forumla Rossa as the "fastest coaster on Earth", yet it doesn't even TOUCH Kingda Ka's speed, one has to wonder, "How much better can we get?" I mean, when Kingda Ka came out, everyone was certain no one could touch it. Sure, everyone felt the same way when Millenium Force came out, but keep this in mind... Top Thrill Dragster broke 100 miles per hour 8 YEARS AGO...Kingda Ka has been the coaster king for 6 years and counting. Many people, such as Ring Racer or Formula Rossa have tried, but it seems that you certaintly can't get any faster than Kingda Ka without injury or catastrophic breakdowns, as displayed by Ring Racer's cable incident, as well as the fact whenever they attempt to fire it past 100 mph, the computers powering it completely melt down... As for height, who knows? No one has even attempted to top Kingda Ka. Perhaps it may have to do with the speed problem. As seen normally, you can't reach past Kingda Ka's height without going FASTER than Kingda Ka, and that's where we hit this present time... So the question is, how far can we go with coaster speed and height? Is Kingda Ka the limit of coaster speed and height? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeariisk Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 The height and speed isn't the problem, it's the G-Forces. Sure they can go taller and faster, but these rides would be much larger and much more expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerstlauer1 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 The height and speed isn't the problem, it's the G-Forces. Sure they can go taller and faster, but these rides would be much larger and much more expensive. G-Forces is not a problem at all! if you just make a gentle accelleration, the G-Forces will not be that extreme. I think the problem is in the launching system, they will need to be more durable and strong. Also the tracks needs to be stronger as well as the train and the trainwheels! And i think we are gonna break both the speed, - and height record some day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Clinksalot Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 You could certainly get taller than Kingda Ka, it doesn't have to be a launched coaster. You could have a cable lift get you higher than that. And at that height, you could conceivably have a drop that would go faster as well. IMO, I think the Higher/Faster wars are over. It's not talked about as much anymore. And I think this is a good thing. KK may be the tallest/fastest, but it's nowhere near the "best". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmiester Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Part of the issue is that a record-breaker now would need to be so big and technologically-advanced that it would be an extraordinarily expensive expense for any park. Not counting cost, a record breaker at this point would more than likely descend into a gimmick thrill, like KK or TTD, and more and more parks seem to be looking for overall experience rather than a one-shout thrill whose claim-to-fame could be lost at any time. In my opinion, I see a ride like Maverick, Texas Giant, or I305 as way more enticing than a once-and-done thrill, and I feel like parks are starting to take a turn towards this as well. I'm not saying that there's still not going to be technological innovation, or that I don't want coaster design to progress, but it seems that parks now want better experiences and overall rides over a record. I guess for me it's not a question of "is it possible" but more of a choice between a world record or a better ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
takeariisk Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 The height and speed isn't the problem, it's the G-Forces. Sure they can go taller and faster, but these rides would be much larger and much more expensive. G-Forces is not a problem at all! if you just make a gentle accelleration, the G-Forces will not be that extreme. I think the problem is in the launching system, they will need to be more durable and strong. Also the tracks needs to be stronger as well as the train and the trainwheels! And i think we are gonna break both the speed, - and height record some day! That's what I meant, because the ride would need to be much larger and gentle because of the G-forces, it would make the rides extremely expensive and impractical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GLund Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 IMO, I think the Higher/Faster wars are over. It's not talked about as much anymore. And I think this is a good thing. KK may be the tallest/fastest, but it's nowhere near the "best". But it is freaking fast and freaking tall and that, to me, is A LOT of fun. I have a feeling there will be a 500+ foot coaster, but it probably won't be in the US. Thing is there is no market for them right now, and I think a lot of it has to do with the economy. With things like Cheetah Hunt that give you a thrilling ride that hugs the ground instead of going up really high, you save some money on structure and still get a crowd pleaser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightbeawannabe Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Isn't Rossa's 149 mph more than KK's 128? Does Rossa not go as fast as it was aiming for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shavethewhales Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Excluding gimmicks such as slightly taller and faster versions of TTD/KK, I don't think the next tallest or fastest coaster in the world will be at a theme park, or in the US for that matter. To go taller and faster than what we have now, not only would one be looking at exuberant costs as others have stated, but also logistical difficulties such as safety equipment, high running costs and low capacity. The only people with the will and the ability to look past these challenges are rich arabs and major casino owners. I could see a true record breaker being a stand-alone attraction within a casino resort, but no theme park on this planet is ready to plop down the $50 million it would take for something that truly goes beyond what we already have. We've simply reached the financial limit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason10 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 There is no doubt that coasters can get a lot taller! We have been building structures much higher than 456ft for years. It could be easily translated into a coaster that is excessively tall. But, it would cost A LOT of money. Like said before, it doesn't have to be a launch and at that height, it would most likely break the speed record through gravity alone. It is possible but it's certainly not practical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J. Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) The height and speed isn't the problem, it's the G-Forces. Sure they can go taller and faster, but these rides would be much larger and much more expensive. G-Forces is not a problem at all! if you just make a gentle accelleration, the G-Forces will not be that extreme. I think he was talking about vertical G-forces as opposed to acceleration G-forces. EDIT: There goes me not reading through the entire thread again... Edited February 27, 2011 by A.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandonR Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 The height and speed isn't the problem, it's the G-Forces. Sure they can go taller and faster, but these rides would be much larger and much more expensive. G-Forces is not a problem at all! if you just make a gentle accelleration, the G-Forces will not be that extreme. I think he was talking about vertical G-forces as opposed to acceleration G-forces. EDIT: There goes me not reading through the entire thread again... Still, G-forces aren't the problem here, whether they be acceleration or vertical. Cost is the limiting factor. Top Thrill Dragster simply launches, goes up, comes down, and hits the brakes, all for a whopping $25 million. I'm sure Kingda Ka's price is in the same ballpark. Cost seems to rise at a non-linear rate the higher/faster you go, so it soon becomes an issue of diminishing returns for the parks (let's not forget what roller coasters mean to parks -- they're an investment to boost attendance and sales). If a park spends $50 million on a 600' or 700' roller coaster, it had better attract an insane amount of people in order for them to justify the ride's price tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QueerRudie Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 My .02 worth: It's not only feasable, but expect that we'll keep going bigger, taller, faster and more intense- within the general limits of what the human body can and will take. Let's go back in thew W.A.B.A.C. machine to 1974. People said that it hadn't been done in nearly 60 years- but here we were, staring at the "Astounding" Arrow Corkscrew- and then we had the same bunch of people saying "It's too intense". Fast forward to 1987: "Ride Vortex: The world's first Six Inversion coaster"- It's so big! It's so Tall! It's going to get too intense. Now let's shoot forward to 1989. "it's so TALL!" - and we stood in line for Magnum XL200 at Cedar Point- (From Arrow as well)- And again to 1994: "wow! It's so TALL. It's so FAST!" As people lined up to ride Superman at SFMM And again to 2003: You see where I'm going here. In all reality- People keep saying "Gee, that's too much" but people STILL get into line for a new ride. The only limits we have right now are our imagination- and technology limits. R.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas2 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) With the recent unveiling of Forumla Rossa as the "fastest coaster on Earth", yet it doesn't even TOUCH Kingda Ka's speed, one has to wonder, "How much better can we get?" Wait where do you get your information that ForMULA Rossa isn't the fastest anymore? Does it not launch at the promised speed anymore?? Sure, everyone felt the same way when Millenium Force came out, but keep this in mind... Yet less than 3 months later SD2k opened and kicked MF and it's fanboy' asses! Edited February 27, 2011 by wrebbit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelTheFORCE Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Isn't Rossa's 149 mph more than KK's 128? Does Rossa not go as fast as it was aiming for? I was thinking this also. I am confused by the original poster's statements: "With the recent unveiling of Forumla Rossa as the "fastest coaster on Earth", yet it doesn't even TOUCH Kingda Ka's speed" and Many people, such as Ring Racer or Formula Rossa have tried, but it seems that you certaintly can't get any faster than Kingda Ka As said, FR goes 149 MPH, whereas KK goes 128 MPH. As far as I'm concerned, that's pretty much the definition of shattering a record (whether there are trims immediately afterward or not). I know FR has had some downtime, but probably no more than TTD during it's first few opening years...unless I'm missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoasterBoyJosh Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I think a 500 ft Intamin is definitely possible and affordable... Think I-305/MF, but 200 ft taller with an Xcelerator-type layout (2000-3000ft). The thrill ultimately comes from the lift and the drop, but it would be affordable, just semi-short (1:00-1:30 min). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmicha Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 As others have said, it has very little to do with the actual speed or height of the coaster, but rather cost. I remember hearing in an interview with Ron Toomer (sp?) that when Gemini opened they didn't think that coasters could get much taller/faster than that. We are currently about 3.5 times taller and 2.5 times faster than that. There really isn't any sort of limit other than how much parks are willing to invest in a ride and whether or not they have the room to build such large rides. If we are capable to building 2,717 foot tall skyscrapers then there isn't really any reason that a coaster couldn't be built several times taller than Kingda Ka. But that brings up another thing that I have always wondered about. I wonder what the terminal velocity of a typical roller coaster train is. If it isn't much faster (or possibly even slower) than the speeds we currently launch our coasters at, then there is almost no point for increasing speed beyond this unless it is for the sole purpose of having the tallest coaster on earth. Granted for rides like TTD and Kingda Ka, this wouldn't matter since there isn't anything beyond the hill so this would still be an effective way of building the tallest coaster on earth, but for a conventional roller coaster there is going to be a point where extra height doesn't lend itself to increased speed (obviously it would vary between different coaster types/train types). If a traditional (lift hill) coaster's terminal velocity is 125mph and it would hit that with a 400 foot drop, then building anything beyond that would only have the benefit of increasing the height of the lift hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiSab Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Personally, I think the biggest issue is the cost and maintenance that would come with bigger and faster coasters. The elements would need to be bigger to withstand the G-forces, and the track would need to be more sturdy to accommodate said forces. With the way the economy is, I don't think many parks can afford the greater expenses that would come with the biggest coasters. Besides, with the types of rides and elements you can get with a smaller coaster (under 200 feet), there really is no need to build the biggest and fastest anymore. One thing I was thinking, would using LSM technology be a feasible option for big launch coasters? I would imagine that the electricity costs would be astronomical to accelerate the trains to 150+ MPH as much as they would need to, but it would probably remove the danger with the cable launches. Just a thought to toss around a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECZenith Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I'm surprised one hasn't been built in Dubai, they're probably the only ones that can afford a 500'+ coaster reasonably. Remember this one? Was going to be 750' drop into a 415' drop... and made by Arrow Dynamics. Never got approved, for better or worse... we will never know. Fish hook indeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solid Gold Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) There is no speed limit other than accounting for the speed which would require glass or other wind/foreign object protection for the rider (which basically has been reached with Formula Rossa). There is no height limit except for how much money an investor is willing to pay. There is CERTAINLY an intensity limit, at least for the general population. We've already touched it several times. Edited February 27, 2011 by Solid Gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatle11 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Is it possible to get higher and faster? I say yes. That said, I agree with the thought that cost is an issue. KK cost something like 25 million dollars for a 15 second ride. I could see it happening in a place like Dubai or China, where the economy is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braztaz Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I think a record-breaking coaster with a cable-lift+gravity driven drop could work, and part of me thinks it will in the future. It won't have the pricetag of a launch, and they could always drop trims on the first drop to lower the speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Coaster Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 What I meant by Formula Rossa not breaking KK's record is that, not only does it launch SLOWER than expected, but the trims just slow the launch down more... With this in mind, FR technically doesn't own the record, seeing as the trims and the slower launch factor in. As of now, the fastest FR has launched was in the 110-120 range. That's about 8 mph slower than Kingda Ka, but who's counting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmicha Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 ^Where exactly are you getting your information. This is the first time I've heard of FR launching slower than 149mph. And the trims don't matter. Just because it slows it down right after the launch doesn't negate the fact that it goes 149mph (which it does, not 110-120). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Linn Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I'm sure someone will come along and build something taller than KK...but really, I wouldn't mind seeing some more traditional (by traditional I mean with a lift hill) 200-300 foot rides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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