Six Flags Great America (SFGAm) Discussion Thread

[coasterfansince1999]

A couple of weeks ago, I had the chance to ride the Batman Backwards, or "namtaB" Making it go backwards has definitely sparked popularity in the ride, as later in the day the line was out of the entrance. Thankfully, I got on it while there was no wait in the morning.

 

It was probably the most unique experience I have had on a coaster so far. The loops seemed very forceful. It was actually much more intense than usual. It seemed as you kind of "snapped" into the inversions, especially that Zero G roll.

 

Overall, I enjoyed it going backwards. I would ride it again, but I like it a tiny bit better forwards.

 

Also, I quickly notice how Six Flags is trying to promote their popularity on Instagram, with stickers on the TV's in the lines with hashtags for the rides and their official IG page, so that's interesting.

[batmanfan80]

Went there yesterday 5-close. Lines were maybe 30 min max for everything. We started with Condor, Balloons, and Whirley gig. Then I think we went to Demon, X Flight, Eagle red, Bull, Viper, and Namtab. We're stuck with row 4 on X Flight due to the seatbelts being so short on the others, but it was an awesome ride on the right side. I think I built up a real coaster tolerance last year because this ride was definitely Batman-esque in its forces. Last year after riding it a bunch, row 4 started to feel pretty tame. The wife leaned into the corkscrews on Demon and no headbanging this time. It's riding about the same as last year. Still havta keep my head away from the headrest or it'll snap back and hit at the end of the loops. I still end up smacking back against the seat on Eagle and Viper. It feels like a very mild whiplash. Viper breaked kind of hard at the end, so the lap bar smashes into my gut and my head smacks the back of the seat lightly. These wooden coasters would be so much better for me if I had a way to brace my torso. Lap bars just kinda leave me flayling at times. Bull is definitely smoother than the woodies but I still think it'd be a much better ride without the trims and mid-course brakes. They really kill the momentum. It ends up feeling too twisty turny instead of fast. The forces aren't too comfortable for me when it does all those slower turns. I think I've read other people say the forces would be more comfortable if the ride went faster. I'd definitely like the ride better if they just removed all those helixy parts altogether if they're going to keep the brakes. I still don't like Namtab. It definitely feels like it pushes the G force to the max almost the whole ride while also causing constant ear banging. My ears were red afterwards. Normally I'd reride Batman 3-4x if I could. I had no such urge with it backwards(it was a walk-up after 9). I'm hoping they don't screw anything up when it goes back to normal. Saw some of Ignite. The singing, like the show earlier near the Iron Wolf queue, sounded slightly out of tune. The stage setup definitely pales in comparison to Cedar Point's big finale. I have never heard such loud, thunderous fireworks before. Probably really makes the neighbors angry. It was fun to watch some of it from Namtab's lift.

[yay101]

Bull is definitely smoother than the woodies but I still think it'd be a much better ride without the trims and mid-course brakes. They really kill the momentum.

 

Completely agree! I find it weird that most coaster enthusiasts who have ridden Raging Bull (if not all coaster enthusiasts) say the trim brakes should be removed since when it first came in usage, but SFGAm still hasn't done anything about removing them. I think the midcourse brakes are there as block brakes, but don't quote me on that.

[BigBomer]

Completely agree! I find it weird that most coaster enthusiasts who have ridden Raging Bull (if not all coaster enthusiasts) say the trim brakes should be removed since when it first came in usage, but SFGAm still hasn't done anything about removing them.

 

I like how you said that as if the park actually pays attention to the enthusiasts wishes

[batmanfan80]

Raging Trimbrake is a compromised ride IMO. It starts out as an awesome and fast coaster. Then it becomes more about taking you through turns at a slower pace with high g-forces and some slower airtime hills. It's a potential 10/10 ride watered down to a 7/10. The brakes also ruin the pacing, makes it feel less consistent. The elements don't feel as cohesive as they should. It feels more like you get hit with a random hill followed by a random turn, etc, etc. At least someone decided to run it more efficiently. 3 trains. The flash pass person kept the line at bay so we weren't all crowded onto the stairs and the ride ops were attempting to group everyone so there was no empty seats. I saw them do that with giant drop too. Instead of turning Batman backwards, I wish they would've just redone the queue house. You end up with so many empty seats because it overflows and people are stuck on the stairs when some customer walks down and informs the other customers they can fit two more. I guess they could also try to limit the amount of people on the stairs, but that would take some extra staff coordination. It's like they purposely designed it for maximum inefficiency. I don't believe they use brakes for the GP. If they really believed the GP wanted tamer rides, they wouldn't run namtab and designers wouldn't be clamoring to build bigger and bigger coasters. I would argue that the GP craves thrills and big heights a lot more than I do.

[Turkey Leg]

...the ride ops were attempting to group everyone so there was no empty seats. I saw them do that with giant drop too. Instead of turning Batman backwards, I wish they would've just redone the queue house. You end up with so many empty seats because it overflows and people are stuck on the stairs when some customer walks down and informs the other customers they can fit two more.

 

They should redo the queue houses for most rides to include single rider lines. Some groups will be willing to split up to get less wait time, and they would usually still be on the same train, just not next to each other. It works well for Ragin' Cajun and Disney World.

[mcjaco]

Completely agree! I find it weird that most coaster enthusiasts who have ridden Raging Bull (if not all coaster enthusiasts) say the trim brakes should be removed since when it first came in usage, but SFGAm still hasn't done anything about removing them. I think the midcourse brakes are there as block brakes, but don't quote me on that.

 

I've yet to see anyone provide any evidence that the trims were added later. We've asked numerous people at SFGAm at TPR events, Media Days, and construction tours about them, and they all say to a T that they've always been there, and that the trims are actuated by the trains weight, and always have been. The heavier the train is, the more the trims activate. The lighter, the less likely they'll turn on.

 

We've discussed them ad nauseum in this thread soooo many times.

[Cameron]

^ Agreed - All trims were there when the ride opened in 1999. They are not stronger now than they were .. the ride was built with them. At this point it seems extremely unlikely that the trims will go away, so just deal with it. The first half of the ride sucks anyway, it's all about the second half (which isn't trimmed) - so really, who gives a crap?!

 

(Can we get "The ride was built with them, shut up" t-shirts?! )

 

If that's not good enough - think of it this way: Raging Bull was (presumably) engineered to be traversed at a particular speed. The trims ensure that the train is going that speed. If the trims were to be removed then the ride would be "too fast", and the actual ride elements would have to be adjusted so that the train traversed them at the same speed as it does now - so really there would be no difference.

 

Raging Bull isn't my favorite ride in the park (by a long shot); but that's because of the layout (particularly the first half), not because of the trims.

 

However, the public still loves this ride - 14 years later. That's what matters to the park, and it's the park who builds the rides. So again - deal with it

 

Cameron.

[ScottyDoesKnow]

^ Agreed - All trims were there when the ride opened in 1999. They are not stronger now than they were .. the ride was built with them. At this point it seems extremely unlikely that the trims will go away, so just deal with it. The first half of the ride sucks anyway, it's all about the second half (which isn't trimmed) - so really, who gives a crap?!

 

(Can we get "The ride was built with them, shut up" t-shirts?! )

 

If that's not good enough - think of it this way: Raging Bull was (presumably) engineered to be traversed at a particular speed. The trims ensure that the train is going that speed. If the trims were to be removed then the ride would be "too fast", and the actual ride elements would have to be adjusted so that the train traversed them at the same speed as it does now - so really there would be no difference.

 

Raging Bull isn't my favorite ride in the park (by a long shot); but that's because of the layout (particularly the first half), not because of the trims.

 

However, the public still loves this ride - 14 years later. That's what matters to the park, and it's the park who builds the rides. So again - deal with it

 

Cameron.

 

Amen. Trim brakes won't save a sub-par layout! They are here to stay. If you want a stellar B&M hypercoaster, take the trip to King's Island.

[batmanfan80]

I'll have to ride it with an empty train and see what happens. I always found all this trim and mid brake stuff kinda weird. It's not impossible to build a ride that runs correctly without all those brakes. I've read that every B&M hyper has trims, although I don't know how accurate it is nowadays.

[zombi3elephant9]

Personally i never noticed the trim breaks, i knew they were there i just never got upset about them, but i guess the ride would kick ass even more if they got rid of them, or if they ran the ride backwards (I know that last one isn't happening ever just let me have my fantasy this one time). But I love Raging Bull, It was my very first Hypercoaster and the ride that influenced me to become a big dumb coaster nerd

[Cameron]

^^ The ride runs correctly with the trims .. they're part of the design.

[LoopScreweD]

Pretty questionable design if it needs to be slown down out of the box for every Bam hyper.

[DanM64]

Why do the mid course brakes and trims keep getting lumped together? Yes, Bull's MCBR does trim the train, but its REAL prupose is to allow for the 3 train operation. You can't just remove them. While it's true the trims are set to keep the train at a specific speed, they have been changed vs. when the ride was new, the set on the camelback used to allow the teain to run faster. SF maintenence changed it to offset the aging of the ride.

 

I also believe that RB seems slower and worse now because there are just a lot better coasters now than there were when it was new. Those of you talking about a trimless RB not saving the layout are spot on, IMO. I still find a few other coasters at SFGAm better than Bull, but that's just me. To each their own.

[Woodie Warrior]

IDK, I haven't ridden X-Flight yet, but Raging Bull is by far the best coaster at SFGAm IMO, but I respect that some don't believe that.

 

It may be because it is the first and only hyper I've been on, and will be for the next one to two years.

 

I just remember my ride on it, it was a night ride, and I was COMPLETELY blown away. I was freaking speechless.

 

I can't wait to ride it again sometime in September.

[deathbydinn]

Not sure why they moved it up from July 8, but Viper is now running with both trains backwards.

[Vonni]

I personally love Raging Bull and wouldnt mind a copy of it in my home park! (SFStL)

[deathbydinn]

^ Funny you should say that..

[Woodie Warrior]

^ Funny you should say that..

Okay I'm dying to know, did you find that at SFSTL or SFGAm?

[blade1]

I personally love Raging Bull and wouldnt mind a copy of it in my home park! (SFStL)

 

I would love to see it moved there. Then Great America can get a new giga. St. Louis is still close enough to go ride Raging Bull when we feel like it.

[goatdan]

While it's true the trims are set to keep the train at a specific speed, they have been changed vs. when the ride was new, the set on the camelback used to allow the teain to run faster. SF maintenence changed it to offset the aging of the ride.

 

What in the world "ages" on a steel coaster that wouldn't be fixed as a safety hazard? If the track is getting screwed up, wouldn't it seem dangerous to run trains over it? And it isn't like it is running with opening day wheels on it. Especially on a B&M with the wheels on the outside of the track, please describe how this aging works. I don't get it.

 

Also, you're claiming that the park adjusted the brakes to be harder on the ride. Remember, this is Great America - the park that didn't install trim brakes on either Superman or Shockwave even though both were made with spots for them. In particular, Shockwave was the only Arrow mega looper to not have the trims installed. I find it tough to believe that they just randomly decided to change their mind on Raging Bull.

 

Finally, I rode Raging Bull on opening day. The trim brakes were there. They were tugging just as hard as they do now. From how I've had it described, they are there so that you get exactly what B&M intended out of the ride - floater air over the hills, not ejector air. In fact, it would follow that you are actually getting a better ride when the trims engage harder, as the ride is clearly moving faster at that point in time.

 

Oh, and as for a lack of trims not saving the layout, I agree. The curvy hills really don't make for much in the way of any air, nor do they make for much in the way of laterals.

[Cameron]

I also believe that RB seems slower and worse now because there are just a lot better coasters now than there were when it was new. Those of you talking about a trimless RB not saving the layout are spot on, IMO. I still find a few other coasters at SFGAm better than Bull, but that's just me. To each their own.

 

DING! We have a winner!

 

I think this sums up, quite perfectly, why Raging Bull *seems* to rage a lot less now than it did when it first opened. It's a perfectly good ride, but personally I'd rather be on Batman, V2, Viper, X-Flight (seriously) or even Whizzer.

 

Cameron.

[sfgam#1]

Had a fun day at the park yesterday. It said it was suppose to storm but it never did so the lines were never long. The longest line was viper at the station. Which was running backwards (I thought it was suppose to run backwards in July).

 

Anyway backwards viper.. a whole lot of fun. I find it much better than backwards batman. I rode it in the front (technically the back). I thought I knew the layout by heart but some parts still surprised me. The ride was full of airtime and very intense. I would recommend it to any viper lovers. If you're visiting the park you should try it. I give it an 8 out of 10

 

Edit: I hate that I didn't get any pictures of it, sorry everyone.

[DanM64]

While it's true the trims are set to keep the train at a specific speed, they have been changed vs. when the ride was new, the set on the camelback used to allow the teain to run faster. SF maintenence changed it to offset the aging of the ride.

 

What in the world "ages" on a steel coaster that wouldn't be fixed as a safety hazard? If the track is getting screwed up, wouldn't it seem dangerous to run trains over it? And it isn't like it is running with opening day wheels on it. Especially on a B&M with the wheels on the outside of the track, please describe how this aging works. I don't get it.

 

Also, you're claiming that the park adjusted the brakes to be harder on the ride. Remember, this is Great America - the park that didn't install trim brakes on either Superman or Shockwave even though both were made with spots for them. In particular, Shockwave was the only Arrow mega looper to not have the trims installed. I find it tough to believe that they just randomly decided to change their mind on Raging Bull.

 

Finally, I rode Raging Bull on opening day. The trim brakes were there. They were tugging just as hard as they do now. From how I've had it described, they are there so that you get exactly what B&M intended out of the ride - floater air over the hills, not ejector air. In fact, it would follow that you are actually getting a better ride when the trims engage harder, as the ride is clearly moving faster at that point in time.

 

Oh, and as for a lack of trims not saving the layout, I agree. The curvy hills really don't make for much in the way of any air, nor do they make for much in the way of laterals.

I haven't been to the park in a couple years, but the last time went and rode Bull, there seemed to be a lot more B&M rattle than it used to have. I'm not saying there's anything about the ride structure that make it unsafe, but the freeze/thaw cycle every year for 13 years has to take its toll on the track a little bit. I didn't ride RB on opening day, but I did ride it about 6 weeks after. The trims came on then, too, but not as hard as they consistantly do now. Eagle's brakes come on HARD before the helix, not so much after they retracked it because it was adjusted, and V2's holding brake remains off to lessen the load on the rear spike. It's also a lot easier to reprogram existing trims than it is to install some that were never installed. Like I said at the end of my post, I think the biggest reason it feels much slower is that there are just faster coasters now than there were in '99. I don't find Nitro or even Diamondback really any faster than Raging Bull is. Comparing Raging Bull to, say, Skyrush, is like comparing a steel coaster to a wooden coaster, they were designed by different companies to do completely different things.

[deathbydinn]

I haven't been to the park in a couple years, but the last time went and rode Bull, there seemed to be a lot more B&M rattle than it used to have. I'm not saying there's anything about the ride structure that make it unsafe, but the freeze/thaw cycle every year for 13 years has to take its toll on the track a little bit.

 

I've definitely had rides on Bull with a lot of rattle, but my last ride on Sunday night, back row, yellow train was one of the smoothest and best rides I've had on it. Honestly, I couldn't care less about the trims at this point, it's whether the ride tries to shake me apart that makes or breaks it for me.

 

Great to hear that Viper is still good backwards. I was a little worried that running it backwards would kill its airtime, but it sounds like that's not the case. Can't wait to get down there and try it out.