FLIPDUDE Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Last weekend I went to Luna Park Tel Aviv, which is my home park, for the first time in about 2 years. I haven't gone there lately because I grew bored with it, having visited it countless times because despite being very small compared to international parks, it's one of israel's only two "magor" amsuement parks. You can see the Anaconda rollercoaster(A boomerang) from my school, somewhere in the distance, and one day while I was trying to locate it, I noticed there was a large black tower blocking it from view. I didnt want to get too excited, because several times before I thought that one of the israeli parks might be building something cool, but ended up being disappointed. So I called the park to find out, turns our they really DID build a launched S&S freefall tower! I was super excited, not only would this be the first ride in Israel to have some proper ejector airtime, but I actually SUGGESTED exactly this sort of tower to the park manager in an email I sent him years ago, along with many other suggestions, a couple of which I later found out also happened! It was really hard trying to find out from the park information center when the new drop tower was expected to open. Whenever I asked the secretary would go "Uuuuh... who are you asking as?" thinking I was some reporter or something wanting to write about it. Israel is such a small country with a less than impressive seleciton of amusement parks and rides, so the concept of an amusement park enthusiast was new to them. I was given several different dates and figured I'd try to go ont he earliest one they gave me. DSCN2223_mpeg4.mp4 Off ride video. Part 2 of the TR coming in a sec! (Feel free to post though) I still remember sitting on the ride with a girl, two of her friends were on the gorund watching because they were too scared. They were talking, when the ride launched I saw one of them turn to the ride, crouch down and grab her heart, letting out a scream. it seemed like she was having a heart attack. Every time the ride was launched, everyone within a 30ft distance would suddenly turn to the ride, drop their jaw and go "OHMYGOD!!!" Before the ride launches you would hear scared teenage girls saying "Let's see how it runs first", and as soon as it launches they would go "There is NO WAY I'm going on that thing!" But I soon realized that the REAL reaction shots weren't in the people GETTING launched, they were in the people of Israel, watching for the first time in their life, a ride of this kind but given the strength of the launch(it was VERY sudden! I think maybe even better than ones in the US, I'm not sure), the angle of shooting, and people's reactions, I didn't have too many good shots. during the day I tried to capture reaction shots several times... The ride doesnt launch you back down as hard as the one in Indiana Beach, but it still launches you down forcefully enough. But restraints fit SHOCKINGLY well(which, I guess is a good thing), so I wasn't lifted out of my seat. Even Anaconda looks pretty from this angle, despite needing a fresh coat of paint and some theming. RCT shot! seriously, though, the tower is maybe the only place where you cang get a decent view of the Pinafari coaster. Since they added trees, fences, and walls with art on them all over the ride to make it pretty. I think this is one of the prettier Pinafaris out there(ignoring the fact that inside the ride the ground is still just dirt). The next you're shot up WAAY up in the air, and you find yoruself face to face with one of the most awesome ride views I've seen. Just as you shout "WOW!" The ride shoots you back down providing some AWESOME ejector air, which as I mentioned earlier, was something Israel was sorely lacking. This tower is GREAT, it's located in a place in the park that provides great views no matter where you're sitting, and I think it's officialy my favorite attraction in the park. The ride goes as follows - once second you're sitting on the ground, nice and safe, looking at everyone looking at you. Swinging your legs in the air, etc. DSCN2542_mpeg4.mp4 Black Mamba POV from later in the day. Check out the amazing view of Tel Aviv's skyline! You can also see the big park that seperates it from the surrounding residental areas and therefore making sure people don't complain about noise or eyesores. The ride has the FUNKIEST ride op booth ever. They tested the ride once, and then let me on. Despite being one of the only people there, I made a dash towards the ride. I felt like a nerd, but at least I would be guarenteed to be first to ride it. up untill about two years ago the park had a very "permenant carnival" feel to it, with rides randomly slapped down on pavement, with only a couple of things looking like they were built there to stay. but during the last couple of years the park has repainted the rides, added themes, and made overall improvments that made the park look alot better. Practically none of the workers could tell me if the ride was going to open today. the seurity guards said it might only open next week. luckily this wasn't true, because if it was I would've had to walk 7 km back home, since israel doesn't have public transportation on saturdays. eventually it was time to go in. american parks tend to have a merry go round or some foliage welcome the guests. we have a giant clown, pirate, and astronaut. At this point I still didn't know if the new ride would actually OPEN today, since I didn't feel the information center was praticularly reliable. They weren't even sure what the new ride DOES. Anyhow - if in american parks there are lines for miles before a park opens, especially on a new ride's opening day - well, this is what the park's entrance looked like 10 minutes before opening. I was the only one there except for 1 other family. the cash registers didn't even open untill just alittle before the park. The entrance price is very high for a park this small, in my opinion, but I had to make an exception for the new ride The park entrance. The park is small, and right next to the main street. so a big entrance plaza is a luxury they get to pass on. The sign is very old, and show's what's supposed to be the park's name-"Amusement city", but over time people just got to know it as "Luna Park Tel Aviv", so now that's what they advertise it as. But now, The Anaconda had company! BLACK MAMBA - The newest addition to the park skyline. This is the sight that USUALLY welcomed guests - the anaconda rollercoaster. The tallest ride in the park (There is a flying island ride that's only taller when operating) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCFreak Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Dude, Awesome TR! I love the reaction pictures the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electerik Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Thanks for this. Think of it this way: The park may be old and boring to you, but to most of us on here it's pretty exotic! The new ride looks cool, but why on Earth would anyone name a drop tower after a snake?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriboElectric Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Awesome! Thanks for sharing those pictures and your trip report! Those pictures of the crowd reactions are truly awesome, that gave me a fantastic idea of trying to find a place near me that can generate some cool crowd reactions so I can photograph them! Fun! Thanks Again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIPDUDE Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 Well, I'd imagine that they named it after as nake because it sounds dangeorus and scary. Though the fact that it's located next to the Anaconda does make me suspect a theme starting to form here. The park service quality leaves something to be desired. it's inhabited by people who couldn't find better jobs, and kids who are just working there for peanuts because it's an amusement park, and a result, while nobody is practicualrly not nice, you also don't get the warm fuzzy feeling you get at parks like Holiday World. And it IS old and boring to me, but they HAVE been moving in the right direction lately, things such as making the park seem like an amsuement park instead of a carnival stand out. anyhow, on to part two! this area is usually a big mess with people trying to get to the end of the line the quickest. Part 3 coming right up! The Gin Genie says "Pull my finger" Almost every other ride in the park was a walk-on. This was the longest line for Rakevet harim, which doesn't SEEM like much but they were running it at HORRIBLE capacity, with only one car running at a time, the other one loading in the station. I think that either the employees don't understand the block system, or they're just not paid enough to pay attention to it. Probably no other ride in Israel has more horror stories about it than Rakevet Harim. Everybody has heard about some horrible accident that got people killed on it, thing is, even though I remember something like that myself, the fact that everyone knows a completley different story about what happened, and the fact it happened before the internet was a popular news source make it a hard story to verify. another effect of the line being so narrow is the fact that family memebers/friends who AREN'T riding tend to still have conversations with the people they're waiting for who are still in the line. This may sound weird, but honestly, if lines were this narrow at your home park you'd probably skip over them too. next was the turn of Rakevet Harim, which means Rollercoaster in hebrew. Which is the oh so original name of the oldest operating rollercoaster in Israel(to the best of my knowledge, anyway). A Pinafari Z40 coaster. Since the queue lines in the park are so narrow, they're often just climbed over. Most people(me included) just cut through them to get to where the line starts. the unwritten rule is that as long as you haven't gotten to the point where people are STANDING and WAITING, it's okay to cut. Of course, there are always the Chavs that just cut in line regardless. I hate those. Overall the ride was good, I just don't get much of a kick out of it like I used to. I think it was riding Kingda Ka that ultimately made this ride more of a time-passer for me. I only rode Anaconda once that day and I barely even noticed what was going on because I was busy taking pics the entire time. And with a quick KER-KLANK-Klank-klank-klank the ride goes up the 2nd hill, which left me just enough time to take a quick snapshot of balck mamba before falling back down in reverse. COASTER PORN! Anaconda... THROUGH THE EXOTIC PALM TREES!!! Look at those curves! (Lol, I'm gonna show this TR to my friend later, he's probably going to think I actually mean it like that) You can't see since I resized, but I think at least one person on the train is doing that thing where you look up and see the other half of the train above you. Okay, even if you're not into rollercoasters, you ahve to admit this is a pretty sexy shot. If it wasn't so blurry this would seriously be one of the awesomest pictures I've ever taken. Also, check out the RCT-chic "Tent" themed station! Climbing up up up... It has the New-but-not-NewEST train designs. The theming is kind of silly, because it has a pretty awesome entrance sign(if you ignore the fact that the snake has a giant lightbublb growing out of it's head), but aside from that, and some awnings, it kind of lacks theming, in the sense that if you look on the right side of the previous pic, it has POTTED PLANT HOLDERS for theming! Which don't even have any potted plants in them, anymore! Next it was time to ride the Anaconda. I was so excited when it was firs tbuilt, but since I've ridden it so many times that I grew bored of it. The Ballerina ride got a nice makeover from pink to blue. Of course, this made some GP think this is a BRAND NEW ballerina ride... Also, I'm not sure if it always ahd that cool scarf. Reason 1 why I always had a hard time recreating my home park in RCT - this is what the queue lines look like. Three lanes take up less than an RCT block. Reason 2 - the angles on the pinafari coaster. Thanks to the ride's high capacity the line was very short for the rest of the day. People were complaining about how long it takes between launches, but I pointed out that it's because the ride ops were checking to see everyone is locked in safely, and were otherwise dispatching as quick as they could. so kudos there! However, the ride op DID ruin my fun of being first of the people to ride it by mentioning that I'm far from being first and that they tested it with epople millions of times including friends of people who work there. I was only the first of the General Public to ride it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBru Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Very cool report! Thanks for sharing! The program sounds a lot more intense than most here in the US...do you know what size tower Black Mamba is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIPDUDE Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 I dont know the numbers, but from rough assesment by looking I'm assuming it's the tallest kind of SINGLE tower. right before the end the coaster has a tiny, 2-second strech where it goes bananas and you have to hold on, then it turns and hits the brakes. But these are some WEIRD brakes, they look more like a lift hill than they look like any brake run I've seen. Anyhow, I need to go study for a test and such, so the enxt part won't be up immediatly, but I'll try to have it be sometime soon. Stay tuned, you don't want to miss some of the park's unique, super rare rides! another nice view of the colored areas. ARGH!!! couldn't she at least PRETEND to be scared?! That would've made this an "A" shot! Before the Anaconda was built, this would be the crowning moment for ANY trip to Luna Park Tel Aviv. The moment where the car climbs over the hill, and since the coaster is right at the edge of the park, you get to take a look at the entire street below you, and if you're lucky maybe even have some people look at you and wave. If I don't manage to take a better picture at blackpool pleasure beach on my vacation, I'm most likely to use this picture as my homework assignment. here you can see very well how the park only repaints the parts most visible or important. which, on one hand is lazy and cheap, on the other hand, it made it feel like I'm riding Zonga or something. so it evens out. I decided to do my homework in the park. Our photogrpahy homework was to take a portrait of someone. so during my rides on Black Mamba and Rakevet Harim I tried to take portrait pictures of the people I was riding with. these two were nice enough to model for a bunch. Though most of the pics came out kind of "eh". "When I grow up I want to be a fireman!" Despite the fact the coaster has been upgraded SEVERAL times in the past few years, it still operates semi-manually. meaning the ride op Pushes the trains through/out of the station with his hands. This coaster used to have no restraints, no lap bars, no nothing. This made alot of people think the ride is unsafe. About 6 years ago they put in some seatbelts, and about two years ago they put in regular coaster lap bars instead. I kinda liked the fact it used to be without nothing. added to the thrill. That fence in the background is one I used to stand behind as a kid and watch cars go through the amazing concept that is a "banked turn", waiting for the day I could finally ride. Now that area is closed off as the place where they repaint rides. The cars used to be painted to look like cars(I think). Now they just figured "Whatever. let's just make them shiny". The station has a pretty nice, realtively new mural though(However I trust that it's to cover up the eyesore that is the dirt in the middle of the ride and the transfer track, but who cares, as long as it improves the coaster) every so often a car passes in the helix over the station and makes a very loud rattling noise. It's annoying and awesome at the same time. It's much prettier than it used to be, methinks. However, last time they repainted, they only reapinted the drops, or parts that were visible from the outside. which is kind of weird. this sign has a funny/sad story behind it. Growing up I couldn't WAIT for the day I'd finally be able to ride a rollercoaster for the first time. But there were two only coasters in Israel, one, at another park, you had to be 12 to ride, whereas this one, you had to be 8 to ride. So every time I'd come ot the park I'd jsut stare at it and ogle and wait for the day I can FINALLY ride it. Well, the day finally came, and when I was 8 I looked at the rules sign agian and noticed that after it said that you have to be 8 or older to ride, it also said that you can be between 6-8 if accompanied by an adult... >____< Sigh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr.gumbo Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Awesome trip report. I love quirky little parks like these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBru Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 That, indeed, looks like a very nice Pinfari... Well, the foliage looks nice, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teacups Make Me Sick Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 The new ride looks cool, but why on Earth would anyone name a drop tower after a snake?? Freudian Slip? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netdvn Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Great pics. I loved seeing the reactions of all the people seeing the S&S Tower for the first time. The park itself looks nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrygator Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 thanks Tomi - I finally have enough photos to add your home park to TPR's Park Index Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIPDUDE Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 ^Hey, cool! Thanks! I also have a TR of Superland, shall I link you to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larrygator Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 ^I already added that one to the Park Index. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milst1 Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Todah rabbah! Very cool report. Where is the other park? Also in Tel Aviv? -M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost007jas Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Awesome trip report! It's lots of fun reading about parks I've never been to, seen, or heard about for that matter. Now, I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly (I will admit now my knowledge of flat rides is slim to nil) but does the drop tower actually push you down? As opposed to letting gravity "do it's things". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanlv Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Thanks for the great trip report. I'm glad you now have something to be excited about in your home park! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebl Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 "Freudian Slip?" (Teacups Make Me Sick) I'm "a-Freud" so! Regarding that chain at the end of the ride, the Big Coaster, a very similar coaster at Wonderland in Amarillo, TX, has something like that at the end. Look at this picture in the lower right hand corner, and you can see the little hill leading down into the station. That's where it is. (I have a picture that I took of it when I was there, but I can't find it right now.) Why would you have/need a chain there? This looks like a nice little park. Sometimes these can be quite fun. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEADCHEEZ Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Great Pictures! Do you think Black Mamba is better than the S&S tower at Indiana Beach? Because the one there is known to be INSANE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIPDUDE Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 Todah rabbah! Very cool report. Where is the other park? Also in Tel Aviv? -M No, it's two cities away, in Rishon Letzion, but since Israel is a small country, "two cities away" means a one hour bus ride. does the drop tower actually push you down? As opposed to letting gravity "do it's things". yes, most launched freefall towers do that, as a matter of fact. Do you think Black Mamba is better than the S&S tower at Indiana Beach? Because the one there is known to be INSANE No WAY! The one in IB is the ebst one I've ever been on. mentioned inone of the cpations that despite pushing you down pretty hard, the ride doesnt push you as hard as IB's tower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIPDUDE Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 Well, I got a spare couple of minutes so I figured I'd continue the TR a bit. And I better end this update here, but stay tuned so I can explain what THIS thing is!(If you're not familiar with flat rides outside the US's safety regulations then you're about to get a jaw dropped) Yawn... Good morning Miss Giraffe, is it time to get off the ride? When I said the seats are big enough to take a nap on I wasn't joking. They're comfy, they're wide, the ride isn't intense, there are awnings over each bench that provide shadow, and the lap bars aren't restrictive. So many people actually go on the ride to take a nap and relax from the bigger rides! It's like a gigantic rocking chair with amazing views. When it first opened, it actually had a tractor engine running it. WITH THE TRACTOR STILL ATTACHED! Yup, built onto the ride body was the front of a TRACTOR! This was before my time, though. After a while they removed the tractor, but it sitll looked like a canrival ride, so sometime int he past two years they repainted the ride to look like a Giraffe and added some grass under it. Now it looks much better. Though I gotta admit, I really would want to see the tractor version just for laughs. Hollywood was always one of my favorite Non-thrill rides in the world. It is one of the oldest rides in the park, the seats are coushy, and it doesn't spin fast enough to be a thrill ride, unlike the Paratroopers ride at IB. The seats are wide enough for you to take a nap on!!! ...Whereas some rides, like "Hollywood", are somewhere inbetween, because they are old rides that got revamped as part of the park's recent improvments. ...Whereas the new rides, like the Power Towers, which are rope-climbing towers like the ones in Legoland, look like they're supposed to be where they are, and have a touch of theming and scenery. I guess at some point the park managers realized the park wasn't about to have to migrate for the winter. You can easily tell which rides are old and which are new. The old rides(such as the chain carousel, and all the little rides in the kiddy area) tend to be carnival rides that look like they were just plopped down, folded out of their compact little box, opened to the public, and are ready to move on to the park's next destination in a quick second... no matter how empty the park, the chain carousel is always running full. This is the only ride I can bet is going to stay in the park untill the day it closes. I think even if the park by some sort of miraculous chance got a whole lot of incredible rides all of a sudden, the "Chain carousel" as it's called, will probably always be a crowd favorite. This sort of ride is popular at both magor Israeli parks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dino Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Cool pics, interesting rides, overall...great TR. Love the reaction shots for Black Mamba. Hollywood seems like a cool ride, I like how everyone seems so laid back and relaxed on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netdvn Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 OOH I want to see more of the mysterious ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIPDUDE Posted April 3, 2009 Author Share Posted April 3, 2009 Alright! Time for more. ...WTF is this?! From the slide tower you have a nice view of the railway bridge. since it was satruday there were not rains but usually there's one passing every so oten. and it's cool to watch. That area behind it used to be some sort of bicycle racetrack or something, I really have no clue, since motor sports were only recently legalized in Israel. but since then the track was torn down and now it's a... It's a... uh... I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS! All I knwo is that I always hoped that the park expands into that lot. since it's big, and right next to he park, but I guess the fact the train track bridge is in the way might be an obstacle. Thoguh they might work out a Kentucky Kingdom type deal. That's all for this part! Stay tuned to find out... And then, either the green gras thing stops you, or you go flying forward and the fence turns you to French Fries!(try saying THAT 3 times quickly) Basically you go down, make a tiny splash in the part of the slide that dips a little(you hardly get wet, though) This guy was scared to ride, He was even scared to ride the park's flying Island ride!(which is a sort of observatory for those of you who don't know) I rode the red ones for the first time though. It was very fun, and was a walk-on, because everyone preffered going to the taller, blue slides. Heh, just compare the nice steel supports ont he left to the old wooden ones on the right. I like the wooden ones though. they're unique! By the wya, I forgot to mention, Aside from the S&S tower, replacing hte old rotting slide with new slides is another suggestion I included in my email to the park manager all those years ago! I don't remember if by the time I sent it they weren't already built, though. If they were I probably took it out of the original draft. It's climbs like these that make me glad for the invention of the lift hill. This time around I didnt ride the blue ones, though, the line was too long for me. Going up the structure you pass under the slides, which tend to drip on you. When I went ot Coney Island, OH I was SHOCKED to discover there's such a thing as woodden supported waterslides! I can't BELIEVE I didn't realize that the waterslides at my home park were wooden supported, too! You have to climb up the giant wooden structure to get to either one of the slide towers. The red slides may be new but they use the same tower that the Death Hovercraft used. It's annoying, but at least you don't have to carry up a boat. those travel up by conveyor belt. Next up were the boat slides. The blue ones on the left are old, and have been a park favorite for ages. The red ones, hwoever, are new, and despite the fact they were constructed about 5 years ago, I never got to ride them ebcause the park was always closed when I was there. They were built in place of a rotting old slide that was closed for a decade. It was called "The hovercraft of death", and I don't know if it really WAS that steep or if it was just my imagination but at the time it seemed near vertical. I always wanted to ride it, and considered it the scariest rid eint he park but you had to be 12 to ride it and by the time I was 12 it was closed. Rumor has it someone died on it. Basically you would sit on a big plastic BLOCK, and slide down the freakishly steep slide, afterwards it would spit you out onto the pool and the block you're sitting on would basically be skipped like a rock. After it was closed plants started growing on it and at some point it looked like a gorgeous example of an abandoned ride. You can see a picture of a similar ride in antoher israeli waterpark here: http://www.ynet.co.il/PicServer2/01082004/600217/8_m.jpg I see you there, ferris wheel! I found a picture of this ferris wheel from the 50's/60's Looking at the drawings on the wall, and considering this ride is right next to the Rocket, you could consider this the park's "Tacky 80's" corner. However, I msut say, the Breakdancer is a fun ride, with good music, and if I wasn't nauseaus that day I'd probably ride it. Also - yes, that is a giant Gorilla in the middle with worn out lumberjack clothes, a trucker hat, and a ponytail. The Breakdancer, another one of the park's carnival rides. It looks like it's stopped, but this shot was actually taken while it was running. there were only two people on ride and the operator didnt feel like closing all the restraints I guess. Ladies and gentelmen... I bring you... A BIG WASTE OF MON-- I mean "THE ROCKET!!!" The Rocket is debatably the oldest simulator in the world. It probably isn't, but you'd think it is by looking at it. It's insides are decorated in a way that looks like some over-glittery 80's music video about outer space, and I think they have two different movies they switch from every so often, both of which are so old that you can hardly tell what's going on in them. basically when it starts it raises the front, and then jsut proceeds to slowly bank from side to side untillt he ride is over. Now, usually a bad ride is nothing to be upset about, but I AM upset because I feel that this ride is taking up space in a park that hardly has any to spare, it costs them upkeep, and I just think they should sell it to some rotting park in a 3rd world country while it's still in good enough condition to be bought, and give all the employees a raise with the money so maybe they'll be nicer. If you come visit the park from antoher country I recommend riding it just for the sheer "WTF"ness of it. For those of you who have never seen one, it's basically a "Twist" ride that also goes up and down. It's squish-your-friends-y fun! The Octopus ride. The cars always used to creep me out when I was little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netdvn Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Water Country USA has one of those "hovercraft death slides" you mentioned. Its in an older area of the park and its very popular. I've never seen a waterslide end in a patch of grass before. Strange I really wanted to see more of the mysterious flat ride though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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