What's wrong with Knott's?

[CoasterComet]

^ I agree. I mean, the whole thing with CF is money and stock. It used to be a little more 'human' but money "changes everything." sadly. If the big rides gets people through the gate, I guess that's important. Meanwhile the first 45 foot drop of CYCLOPS kicks the ass out of any 200 or 300 foot ride. And that's not even mentioning the 'big drop' on the ride.

[Scaparri]

The one thing I've noticed after my lone trip to the park is that most of the bashing seems to come from people who are simply pissed that the park is losing its independent charm, but from an outsider, the park really isn't that bad.

 

While I'll probably never personally know what KBF's exact charm was that is now gone, I can relate in other cases. There are multiple parks that I have a bitterness towards because they have sacrificed charm in favor of bland change. I tend to notice that people will enjoy these parks more than I usually do. In KBF's case, I feel like the park has change so much, that the people who were in love with its former charm are now extremely resentful to a point that they make the park out to be much worse than it really is.

 

I generally hear nothing but bashing when Knott's is the topic. However, I personally don't think the park is that bad. I was actually fairly impressed with it, partly due to the fact that I had this horrible vision prior to visiting the place. For the most part, it has better theming than 75% of the parks I've been to and I didn't see much of a problem with the ride collection outside of Ghostrider and Boomerang's roughness. Operations-wise, I didn't have much to complain about either. Now granted, I recognize that my operations experience is based off of a single visit.

 

Overall, I don't doubt that it's lost a lot of character, especially given the company that has owned it for the last decade. However, I personally don't feel the park is half as bad as it's reputation in the coaster world.

[ebl]

^ The thing is, if you never knew the park's charm, then all you know is what it is now.

 

No, it's not a "terrible" or even "bad" park. From the standpoint of the first-time visitor, there's plenty to see and do. And that's a good thing.

 

Eric

[Jew]

It's not just the charm...it's everything that's gone downhill. The employees, the operations, the clientele, and Haunt have also gone downhill since CF has taken over.

 

^^^Said it best: It's not human anymore. It is all about the money. They treat their employees like crap, and it is obvious the guest experience has suffered as a result from everything mentioned in this thread.

 

KBF=SFMM 10 years ago. They're decline has only just begun.

[knottslover77]

KBF=SFMM 10 years ago.

agreed.

 

I think the park started to decline in 2003. Before then I can't recall any thing CF did to hurt the park other then Vertigo.

 

--Jay

[SharkTums]

KBF=SFMM 10 years ago. They're decline has only just begun.

 

Really well put...and to add to that...

 

Cedar Fair = Six Flags 10 years ago

[alpengeist04]

Cedar Fair = Six Flags 10 years ago

 

Funny you should say that, because that crossed my mind as soon as they purchased the Paramount parks.

[Jim1013]

Just a few quick points:

 

1. With frequent promotional discounts it can't be all about the money - no one beats Disney when it comes to price gauging.

 

2. Let me tread lightly here, no offense to anyone - but the market is not the same as Kansas City or Dallas or Orlando or Hershey PA. Some of the roughest parts of LA are a few miles away. Getting to MM requires a car.

 

3. For some major blunders, see the Knott family. They axed the SBR and Bear-y Tales. They let SBR deteriorate, badly, at the end of the ride's life the paint was peeling off the theming and what was left just gradually disappeared rather than be replaced.

 

They did build Mystery Lodge, Jaguar, and Windjammer. They waited years between new attractions. In the mid 80's, attendance was around 5 million, by the time CF took over it was near 3 million.

 

4. The decline may have started when Walter Knott died ('81). It was his vision that was responsible for Ghost Town, the stunning (and boring)Independence Hall, the log ride, the mine ride, Bear-y Tales, the first looping coaster in America (at the time), the Parachute Sky Jump, and the SBR. After his passing, the originality gradually declined.

 

Just some thoughts - maybe wrong?

[downunder]

For me, only knowing post CF Knott's, although the place is fun, they don't have any what I would call destination rides - Xcelerator is pretty good, Silver Bullet is fun but far from the best invert, Ghostrider can be good but many woodies are better, Monte is good but not a major attraction and the rest are whatever - Boomerang, Timberline, Jaguar, Sidewinder, and I don't expect Pony Express to be anything spectacular.

[Teacups Make Me Sick]

things to improve knotts

 

1. Bring back soap box racers

2. Bring back the gasoline alley cars

3. Bring back the parachutes

4. Bring back the haunted shack

5. Bring back greased lightning

6. Bring back xk1

7. Bring back the tumblers

8 Return the lake and the church to the way they were.

9 Bring back the beary tale or dinosaur ride i really dont care which i enjyed both.

 

Even the carnival rides that were their like whirlpool, cool whip, and the propeller spin had their own special little place there

 

 

I agree...Knotts used to be considered a theme park and now since they took out all those unique attractions IMO--its just an amusement park.

 

Some attractions started not fitting into the theme of the old west, like the dinosaur ride. But it still had its charm.

 

I haven't been there since they replaced the soap box racers with that horrible surfing-themed coaster...I've been going there since I was a baby and now all the nostalgia has been sucked out of it.

 

[cfc]

At least Pony Express, depending on how well it's themed, would make sense in the Ghost Town.

[ebl]

"I haven't been there since they replaced the soap box racers with that horrible surfing-themed coaster" (Teacups Make Me Sick)

 

Don't worry---you didn't miss anything. And that thing is gone anyway---that's where Xcelerator is now.

 

Eric

[Wes]

things to improve knotts

 

1. Bring back soap box racers

2. Bring back the gasoline alley cars

3. Bring back the parachutes

4. Bring back the haunted shack

5. Bring back greased lightning

6. Bring back xk1

7. Bring back the tumblers

8 Return the lake and the church to the way they were.

9 Bring back the beary tale or dinosaur ride i really dont care which i enjyed both.

 

Even the carnival rides that were their like whirlpool, cool whip, and the propeller spin had their own special little place there

 

This is a boring mentality. I don't want a Knott's that's perpetually stuck in 1982 as much as I don't want the Knott's that exists today. Older rides should be swapped out for more modern things, they just need to make sure the replacement has a good level of detail and works for the overall feel of the park.

 

As much as I don't like the direction the park is heading, I think it's unfair to expect them to be stagnant, or that simply bringing back long expired flat ride will fix the underlying issues.

[dougr]

things to improve knotts

 

1. Bring back soap box racers

2. Bring back the gasoline alley cars

3. Bring back the parachutes

4. Bring back the haunted shack

5. Bring back greased lightning

6. Bring back xk1

7. Bring back the tumblers

8 Return the lake and the church to the way they were.

9 Bring back the beary tale or dinosaur ride i really dont care which i enjyed both.

 

Even the carnival rides that were their like whirlpool, cool whip, and the propeller spin had their own special little place there

 

This is a boring mentality. I don't want a Knott's that's perpetually stuck in 1982 as much as I don't want the Knott's that exists today. Older rides should be swapped out for more modern things, they just need to make sure the replacement has a good level of detail and works for the overall feel of the park.

 

As much as I don't like the direction the park is heading, I think it's unfair to expect them to be stagnant, or that simply bringing back long expired flat ride will fix the underlying issues.

 

Yeah, they sound like old New Yorkers moaning about the decline of Coney Island or old mobsters bitching about the "decline" of Vegas.

When I first visited Knott's in the 70's, EVERYTHING was an upcharge. This was when Disney sold you a nice book of tickets with your admission. Maybe my Dad was cheap, but Knott's felt like a ripoff then. I came back to Knott's in 2004 and it was actually pretty good. Ghostrider was still in decent shape and the Ghost Town stuff hadn't been ripped out yet. Plus the showgirl at the "birdcage" picked me as the dude for that show, so it was good for me.

You know, when I was in my mid twenties, Expo came to our town. We had the Scream Machine (now Ninja in St. Louis) and Looping Starship, which I thought were the coolest rides EVER. Looking back on it now, I see they were good for their time, but there's other stuff that's out there now that's cooler.

Ghostrider is still a kick-ass ride. A little love will bring it back to its former glory. Silver Bullet-I don't care what the rest of you guys think of its ride, 170 feet down from the front seat is still plenty fun for me. Xcellerator? I screamed like Ned Flanders the first time I rode that thing. Montezooma is a beautifully designed classic coaster, one of the best ever-where's the ACE plaque?

A little less concrete, bring back the cowboy graveyard, a little work on Reflection Lake, figure out a way to fence off SB with old-timey fencing, a mountain for Sierra Sidewinder, and maybe replace La Revolucion with a Fireball. Oh, and enforce that Line-Jumping rule and maybe change the system so you don't have to wait in line to honor your out-of-town Cedar Fair pass. Still a great place, and a great break from Mousewicz.

[cosmic hearse]

things to improve knotts

 

1. Bring back soap box racers

6. Bring back xk1

 

 

 

XK1! I have been trying to remember the name of that ride for the past few weeks! I loved that ride so much! The soap box racers as well, such an amazingly simple yet great ride.

[cfc]

When I first visited Knott's in the 70's, EVERYTHING was an upcharge. This was when Disney sold you a nice book of tickets with your admission.

 

As I recall, Knott's sold ticket books, too (basically "A-C" coupons, as opposed to "A-E"). But you could buy a ticket that just got you into the park (as you could at Disneyland).

[dougr]

^Like I said, my Dad was cheap. Just like the movie Vacation, by the time you get to California, you're running out of money, you're not exactly in the best of moods when the park tries to sell you a coupon book...

[coasterdude5]

Cedar Fair = Six Flags 10 years ago

 

Thank you.

 

Elissa said it all.

[ebl]

Just a note, when Knott's had ticket books back in the '70s, their ticket levels were opposite of Disney---that is, at Knott's an "A" ticket was for the big rides and "D" (their highest level) was for the little stuff.

 

See? Y'all learned something new...

 

Eric

[southpuddle]

If Knott's was exactly the same as it was back in the 80s, then today.... well there wouldn't be a Knott's today LOL. You can love a classic old ride with all your heart but the sad fact is that it won't be around forever. It's been this way since the beginning of the amusement era - old outdated rides will be taken out when the majority of the park's patrons have lost interest in it, and the most you can do is to ride it as much as you can when it's still there, take pictures, and think back on your memories.

 

I'm pretty sure that a "longing for the past" is a common theme of humanity. The "old-timers" back in the 70s probably longed for the Knott's of the 50s... the "old-timers" of the 80s longed for the Knott's of the 70s, and we'll continue that tradition by longing for the Knott's of 2008 ten year from now. Just go along for the ride LOL.

 

I love Knott's. Went for the first time back in 2003 and had a blast, and I've gone once a year since then, and plan to keep going.

[GhostRider16]

I realize that Knotts is changing, but there practically isn't any park out there that is in it's original state for good reason. I hate that they took out some of the original stuff like the original berry stand but things have to change sometimes. At least they are adding things and trying to better their park rather than just let it decay.

 

With additions like Pony Express and Sierra Sidewinder they are trying to bring in a variety of people to their park. I saw a few pages back that someone said that Jaguar was boring. Of course it is for us, but kids love it. When I go to the park with any of my nephews or younger cousins that is the first thing that they run to in the park.

 

I do agree with the fact that most the employees that work there are horrible. When I was working there I couldn't stand half the people that I was working with, which is probably why I quit after a few months. It's mainly teenagers that only care about getting a few bucks and most of them don't care what they are doing or how they are acting. However, there are some employees that work there, like the ladies that work in the bakery by Ghostrider and a few others, that love their job which helps bring the park atmosphere up.

 

I still go to Knotts quite often and I cant really see the resemblance to SFMM ten years ago at all other than the employees. The park is always spotless and its mainly families that visit. As with any park I hope it does improve but I dont think it is as bad as you think it is.

[bflag]

I agree that Knotts is not as bad as people think....but when you are going up against SFMM and Disneyland you really have to set yourself apart somehow and I think Knotts is trying to at least do that.

[Mechanic]

This issue seems to be one of perspective to at least some degree. I've only visited the CF KBF so I lack the perspective of many that preferred the park at some earlier time. Our family has enjoyed KBF and we will likely continue to visit the park. Other than Perilous Plunge being closed every time we've been there, I've always been satisfied with our visits. A few years ago, I'd have said I liked KBF better than SFMM if asked. That has changed however. Hopefully CF will feel some of that pressure and push to improve as well.

[aliston]

Welcome to the brain-dead, force-fed corporate America of tomorrow. Cedar Fair cares first and foremost about not getting sued. I don't know if you followed the story at Great America a few years back where a non-English speaking moron jumped a fence and got killed by a passing coaster train. His family sued since the sign wasn't in Spanish and won.

 

With our society rewarding idiots like this, its no wonder that Cedar Fair has adopted relatively idiot-proof video instructions... though you can never underestimate the stupidity of some people.

[cfc]

Just to clarify, while I do believe that Knott's was a much better park back in the "good old days" (that is, pre-Windjammer), I'm not calling for them to bring back any old rides that have been removed. I just think that CF (and before them, the Knott family) have made some unfortunate decisions.

 

That being said, they've made a few right moves, too--for example, replacing the wretched Windjammer with Xcelerator (I like this ride quite a bit). Sierra Sidewinder is a good fit for Camp Snoopy, and I think the Pony Express will be good for Ghost Town (it should fit in better with the western theme than Silver Bullet).

 

What bothers me is how the atmosphere of the place has declined.