Disneyland Resort (DL, DLR, DCA) Discussion Thread

[gotdane]

I never said it was "hardly noticeable"...

When I visited the park in January, I hardly noticed the empty Paradise Bay.

Yeah, I did miss where I said that...I'll give ya that. I was kidding myself when I acted as if I remembered what I said 30 seconds after the fact. Paradise Bay in shambles is noticeable. I must have been temporarily out of it when I typed that statement.

 

PS...these stupid text windows have been acting weird! It doesn't actually display what I had just typed. I have to highlight everything to get it to show what is actually being typed. So, excuse all my editing. LOL.

[RCFreak]

Except Robb is right - this current look of the park does look like crap. I'm only thinking of a time when "like crap" won't be anywhere close to the proper adjectives with which to describe this.

 

Since a whole lotta nothin' appears headed for Disneyland, the only real incentive left for me to renew my Premium AP in 2010-2012, apart from World of Color, is the morbid curiosity to be there to see all the front-side construction in DCA, and to do some grave dancing over the death of some of the old hardcore crappiness.

 

I think I'm going to drop down to a Deluxe or even possibly a SoCal for those years as I don't like what concept art I've seen of DCA's new turnstyles (basically Disney's Hollywood Studio's). And the plan they have in place for when they go in. Yikes good luck to Disney.

[itnotfair]

I'm still thinking about renewing my annual pass, but honestly, it just doesn't seem worth it this year. By 2011, the parks will be looking awesome, but I have to agree with Robb. The most beautiful section of DCA looks like crap, and let's face it, Disney parks are all about looks, not thrills. Compared to the new GCI construction at SFMM, the progress seems glacial at best. Sadly, it will get even worse as they begin construction on the entrance, the Hollywood area, the Little Mermaid ride and Carsland. The only reason I might still get the pass is the new lay-away program. Normal price for a day admission, and then a monthly payment plan seems doable. Otherwise, I'm not sure I want to fork over all that cash at once for such a lack-luster park experience. Its fine if you disagree, just my opinion.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Don't forget the new parking structure that might be built off Disney Way, and the Disneyland Hotel will be undergoing major renovations as well in the next few years. It's going to feel a lot like 1997-2001 again very soon, if it doesn't already.

[TheBannedKid]

I don't think anyone can say DCA looks good in it's current state, but what else are they supposed to do? I just don't think it's plausible to ask the park to close down for a few months to a year to allow completion without guests seeing the mess. That's like asking SFMM to close for the same amount of time...the two achieve similar attendance figures.

 

Yes they should have gotten it right the first time to avoid this construction but that's in the past. You can't go back and change that. They need the upgrade and I can't see them going any slower. If they do, then I'm sure the average guest will start to notice the construction getting in the way.

 

From my view, guests will only visit the park once or twice during this construction. And they definitely notice it affecting their visit. But if Disney took longer to complete this project then it's more likely that guests will visit the park while under construction more than once or twice. That will put a lasting impression on some...that the park is not worthwhile anymore.

 

I feel it's necessary for the guests to bite the bullet by either visiting during construction, or putting their plans on hold until completion. Though, I definitely agree that a reduced price should be introduced for these construction years. It seems DCA wasn't worth the price to begin with, let alone with it torn up.

[Sir Clinksalot]

I will say that the area's where all the walls are look VERY bad. You can try and put up walls and such with pictures, etc, but it still looks bad.

 

I LOVE DCA, but it will be nice when it's done. It's going to get worse before it get's better.

 

As for the Disneyland walls, they are an annoyance. Main St. is about 1/2 as big, and people, as always, just stand there and gawk. It will be nice when it's done. But the walls won't be there as long as the ones at DCA.

 

And going back to Robb's "First visitor" comment.

 

On our first visit to WDW, they were re-painting, or perhaps putting up the christmas lights on Cinderella's Castle. They also had it walled off behind the castle.

 

Now, this was a minor annoyance seeing as you couldn't get family pictures in front of the castle, without the crane until after 2:00 or 3:00pm.

 

That is NOTHING compared to what's going on at DCA. As an AP, and frequent visitor, I get it. As a first time visitor paying full price, I'd be pissed.

 

Then again, who REALLY pays full-price for DCA.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

Is anyone talking about lack of attendance due to a total park closure being bad considering that pretty much no one who enters DCA today is paying for it? There's the 2fer, which gives free admission to DCA with purchase of 1-day admission to Disneyland. There's also general park-hoppers, which are a required purchase for any ticket longer than 1-day. People who'd buy 2-3 day tickets to Disneyland basically get DCA included without ever asking or wanting it. Since that's going on, and free birthday SoCal residents can upgrade to a 2fer free and a 2-day park hopper for all of $25, is ANYONE paying full price for the privledge to enter DCA???

 

So what sounds like the better idea - Close the entire park down for months at a time, or keep it open with tons of work walls & obvious construction so people can go in by paying either nothing or a massive discount off regular price? Without number crunching, I'd say the better option is to just close the park down for months at a time, especially during the off-season. Clearly the loss of admission revenue isn't a huge loss. The other minor revenue streams lost can be weathered just fine for the period of time the heavy construction is going on.

[Sir Clinksalot]

^ That's a great point Matt.

 

I honestly think it's pride more than anything that is keeping the park open. If Disney closes the park for months, eliminating the "revenue stream" they are admitting it's a failed park and isn't really standing on it's own.

 

Of course, we all know this, but Disney won't admit it.

[gotdane]

Then again, who REALLY pays full-price for DCA.

 

I'd love to see the numbers for how many people actually pay for the full-price single-day ticket for DCA. I'm almost positive its very small.

[OldJJman]

Well, I've been there 3 times since the beginning of the year (twice with guests, once by myself).

 

I'm all for the change, and crap like that. BUT, it does look hideous!! The first guest wanted to get the credits and TSM. Then we got the hell outta that side of the park. It just doesn't have that Disney friendliness vibe with all of those damn walls.

 

The other had the credits, and didn't want to do TSM (posted 90min and single rider was closed).

 

IMO, I like the idea of a 2-park (reduced or NO rate) combo, BUT, just block off the whole backside of the park. Just block it off from the end of Grizzly on one side, and block off the Boudin Bakery/Tortilla factory areas.

 

Yeah, TSM just opened, and the 2 coasters, McDonalds etc... would be lost in the shuffle. But with the walls, and on the scale of what's being done, just cut it off to people altogether. Give the construction crews the ability to do their jobs uninhibited and get it all done that much faster!

 

Lord knows what a pain it's going to be when they move the entrance anyway.

 

 

JJ

[gotdane]

McDonalds etc...

Where have you been!?

[Sir Clinksalot]

^ I was just gonna say, McD's closed last year.

[OldJJman]

McDonalds etc...

Where have you been!?

 

Whatever! You know what I meant.

 

"Burger Invasion" (It was crap anyway!) Best thing that was ever back there anyway (IMO) was the peanut butter and jelly pizza at Pizza Oom Mow Mow (unless that has changed too!).

 

That whole backside of the park has been quite dead to me for some time now.

 

Just close it all. Get it done in 3-4 months. Then put up "normal" (for Disney) construction walls when they start Mermaid, and open the backside up again.

[gotdane]

^I wish it was possible for World of Color to be done in 3-4 months! I'd be in heaven!

[PeoplemoverMatt]

The scariest thought of all in all this is that we're all hoping this construction brings in more people to DCA, but moreover, that people will actually want to pay to get into DCA.

 

That means Disney will have to cut things like the 2fer, and $25 birthday upgrade. They'll also have to convert Disneyland's ticket system into some conveluded form of Magic Your Way (hey! One-Disney!), raising the prices of both Disneyland and DCA, and making Park-Hoppers that much more expensive. If the MYW structure was directly brought over, Disneyland & DCA would immediately cost $75 for 1-day, and a 1-day Park Hopper would be $125. AP's would see cost raises of 15-25%. Does that sound like something you are going to want to pay?

 

Do you look at the construction, the concept art, etc, and envision the end result being good enough where you'd do that?

 

Now if those price adjustments don't happen, and all guests continue to enter DCA basically for free, then all this construction & crappy look is basically for nothing besides giving us nicer stuff to look at. TWDC will have gained almost zero. Wow. Robb will have been right when he said over a year ago that this huge plan doesn't really solve anything.

 

And we still have more than a year to go before the construction really looks bad! Can't wait!!!

[nay]

The other had the credits, and didn't want to do TSM (posted 90min and single rider was closed).

 

Haha, I wonder who that was.

 

But wow, there were walls up a few weeks ago, but not as much as there is now. I actually love DCA and thought it was a beautiful park. I have no problem with the changes they're planning, though. I wouldn't mind seeing the park closed for a bit while they get things in order over there.

[Mechanic]

I've resigned myself to the fact that different areas of the park aren't going to look very good for the next few years. Hopefully the end will justify the means, and I believe it will. For now we're just going to have to live with "Disney's California Adventure - In The Raw!"

 

If I were a once-in-a-lifetime visitor, then yeah, I'd be pretty bummed out that I never got to see it looking nice. As it is, I'll be interested to check out what I do see of the construction over the next few years, prepared to deal with the associated hassles, and looking forward to the completion.

[Scream162]

Now if those price adjustments don't happen, and all guests continue to enter DCA basically for free, then all this construction & crappy look is basically for nothing besides giving us nicer stuff to look at. TWDC will have gained almost zero. Wow. Robb will have been right when he said over a year ago that this huge plan doesn't really solve anything.

You bring up a great point. Besides Carsland and the Little Mermaid, there's nothing else shown in the concept art that *WOW'S* me. They've also cut the budget from some attractions to add more to Carsland.

[robbalvey]

Do you look at the construction, the concept art, etc, and envision the end result being good enough where you'd do that?

You know, I went back and read what I wrote in October of 2007 when the news hit and I think I pretty much feel the same way today.

 

Now this was written before Mania opened, which I think turned out to be a hit and I'm not sure if Philharmagic and the removal of Maliboomer/Orange Stinger are still in the mix, but overall the theme of what I wrote then still stands IMO today...

 

I *DO* think it's all a step in the right direction as DCA really does need "something", but I just can't help to think that deep down I don't see THAT much more imagination going into this than the original DCA concepts had.

 

So to summarize it looks like DCA will be getting:

 

- A new front entrance

 

- New 12 acre Carsland area with 3 new rides including a Test Track style ride.

 

- New Little Mermaid dark ride

 

- Mullholland Madness to be rethemed

 

- Maliboomer and some other Paradise Pier rides may be removed.

 

- Muppets gets replaced with Philharmagic

 

- New restaurant ala Sci-Fi Drive-In

 

Ok, here's my thoughts on all this....

 

I'm a bit indifferent to the renovation news. I think it is needed, yes, as DCA is a bit lack-luster. But I'm not convinced that a new entrance, yet another old WDW 4D movie, a Mullholland facelift, and ANOTHER dark ride or water show will really improve the park all that much.

 

Carsland and Toy Story Mania. Those are steps in the right direction, IMO. These sound like bigger-budget "E-Ticket" rides that the park lacks. At least the Cars ride does. Jury is still out on Mania, but I'm hopeful it's not just another "Buzz" because that IMO, would not be an E-Ticket attraction.

 

But re-doing the entrance? I dunno, it's kind of like when the MGM Grand Hotel decided to re-do their entrance. Did anyone really care that much? Most people didn't even notice!

 

The addition of a Main Street? Sounds like it's pretty much going to be Disney/MGM's main street, but with a different theater at the end. It's nice, sure, but I think it's a little odd to have two main streets back to back from each other. At least the current entrance now doesn't look like something that's 200 yards away. But I guess this is where they will be able to fool people into thinking it's got just as much charm as the park across the street because it now looks more like the park across the street. I don't know about you, but I'm not fooled.

 

I'm not attached to the entrance DCA has now, so it won't really bother me much one way or the other if they change it, but looking at the concept art for the new entrance, I think I'd walk past it just as quickly as I do the current one. It's different, yes, but I'm not convinced it's actually better.

 

And a Little Mermaid ride? How many dark rides in a row does DLR need?!?? Let's see... Pooh, Monsters, Buzz, Nemo, Toy Story Mania, Mermaid.

 

IMO, the only ones that really stand out of that bunch is Buzz and *maybe* Toy Story. The rest of them are either re-hashes of old rides, or just your average dark ride re-telling of a movie property.

 

Now, if Mermaid was something like Tokyo Disney's Pooh, THEN we are talking BIG attraction here. But so far all I've heard makes me think "just another dark ride..." and the concept art looks just like they've taken the Nemo ride in Florida and added a Little Mermaid theme. Meh....

 

Philharmagic? Meh. Seen it, done it, don't need to do it again. It's pretty weak as far as 4D movies go. Better than Honey, I Bored the Audience but not as good as Muppets or Bugs, IMO. So they are going to replace one old WDW 4D movie with another one. Great plan!!!

 

Sci-fi Drive in? So they are getting a restaurant that WDW has had for 10 years. Sure, ok! It's a really cool place, so why not? Didn't they learn the first time around that just bringing over stuff from WDW and plopping it down somewhere in another park doesn't always work?

 

Trolleys? These don't get me excited either. Adds atmosphere, I guess, but I'm picturing them going down the current Hollywood Blvd area and I'm just not feeling any love for them. I don't ride any current trolley or main street transportation ride at any Disney park...EVER so this doesn't make me very excited.

 

Lagoon show? Will it be better than Fantasmic? I needs to be. If they want people to walk away not saying "That wasn't as good as Fantasmic....another DCA let down" it has to be the Fantasmic killer. I'll 'wait and see' on this one.

 

Then I hear rumors of ride removals like Maliboomer and Orange Stinger. But I don't see a replacement for any of those in the current concept art or overhead maps. So what is the point of removing something if you don't have something to replace it with? That would be a pretty DEAD area between Toy Story and Mullholland of those two rides were taken out. Doesn't DCA kind of suffer now from dead areas of the park? Why would they want to create yet another one?

 

Overall, I hope you guys don't think I'm bitching, I'm just trying to bring up some very good points that I think may have been overlooked in the "change is good" cloud of excitement.

 

I *DO* think it's all a step in the right direction as DCA really does need "something", but I just can't help to think that deep down I don't see THAT much more imagination going into this than the original DCA concepts had. I look at those images and I feel pretty much exactly the same as I did about what I saw 7 years ago. Indifferent. Some things make me go "Oh, hey, that's kind of cool..." But nothing I saw made me go "WOW!" Not even the Cars ride. While that did peak my excitement level the most, maybe I'm jaded from having been on Test Track and Journey so many times that I just went "Oh, cool, so California is *FINALLY* getting a Test Track ride...10 years later..."

 

IMO, I see more of the same that didn't get them repeat visitors in the first place so why do they think this will be any different or work better? I'm not convinced.

 

--Robb

 

And you know, thinking back on this...they still get people to go to DHS and I think that park may even have LESS to offer. However comparing WDW Resort to DL Resort is not apples to apples.

 

--Robb

[Guest]

The former McDonalds location isnt opening until mid 2011.

 

While it would be great if they closed down the entire park to expedite the construction it doesnt make sense financially. DLR is an entertainment resort and having 3 on property hotels for one theme park would be silly plus it keeps people on property longer (they may not pay full price to get in, but they are spending money there regardless). Plus its taking them 4+ years to do this its obviosley being planned very carefully from a financial standpoint, no reason to be operating at a loss because of construction if they dont have to.

[robbalvey]

While it would be great if they closed down the entire park to expedite the construction it doesnt make sense financially.

I think we all agreed to this 3 or 4 pages ago.

 

--Robb

[california screamin]

^ When I look at these pictures...

 

...to me that would be like walking out of Future World into World Showcase and seeing the entire lagoon drained, a bunch of tractors and construction vehicles in there and a bunch of the countries with scaffolding all over them!

 

I know it's hard to compare the two, but in my mind that's what I see.

 

Now keep in mind, just so you Disneyland locals and die-hards know, I'm not arguing that they shouldn't be doing any of this because by god DCA *NEEDS* it, and I absolutely know they can't close down the park because the economy doens't warrant it, I'm just simply saying the park looks like crap right now.

 

And I don't see how anyone could really disagree with that.

 

--Robb "If I were Disney I would be embrassed for the first time visitors." Alvey

 

Perhaps this is why Epcot is in shambles thematically?

 

In fact, the entire WDW resort is in desperate need of a DCA style makeover, but this type of thinking is what prevents the sorely needed rehabs from happening.

 

Rehabs are needed. End of story. Complaints like yours only prevent change, and you end up with stale parks like epcot and the MK in florida.

[PeoplemoverMatt]

While it would be great if they closed down the entire park to expedite the construction it doesnt make sense financially.

I think we all agreed to this 3 or 4 pages ago.

 

--Robb

 

But seeing as nobody's really paying to get into DCA anyway, closing the park could save a ton of operating expenses that would probably outweigh the meager at best revenues gained by keeping DCA open. So who knows, it actually might make a great deal of financial sense to close it while the heavy lifting is going on.

[Mechanic]

You made a lot of good points when you originally shared your feelings on this current makeover of the park Robb, and I respect your experienced opinion, however... It seems that the perspectives of some of the well-traveled enthusiasts on this site are considerably different than my own when it comes to some of the planned attractions.

 

Take Radiator Springs Racers for example. I believe I can understand your statement, "Oh, cool, so California is *FINALLY* getting a Test Track ride...10 years later..." to some degree, but to someone like myself that's never visited any of the other Disney properties, it's really exciting to have the ride and land coming here to CA.

 

I have a little higher expectations for The Little Mermaid ride than it seems like you do. Hopefully we can be both be pleased and it will turn out better than you expect. That was definitely the case for me with TSM, as I found that ride to be very, very fun despite my lackluster enthusiasm over initial reports of the Florida version's opening.

 

The trolleys may not be a particularly exciting addition, but I do hope they lend a little more "ambiance" to the park. I have only ridden the Main Street Vehicles a few times at Disneyland, but just their presence adds a believability to the experience of being on Main Street. I think that's what they're gong for at DCA as well, and I think it can work.

 

It's not my intention to pick apart your observations. I just found myself feeling quite a bit more optimistic about some the additions to DCA than you seemed to be.

[Flea]

--Robb "If I were Disney I would be embrassed for the first time visitors." Alvey

 

Just for the record Robb - I visited Disney & DCA last Friday for the first time and was actually really impressed with the overall quality of the park. Sure it was hard not to notice the construction going on but it still is an awesome park IMO.