Disneyland Resort (DL, DLR, DCA) Discussion Thread

[cfc]

If Cars Land is any indication of the future of U.S. Disney "land" design based on popular franchises, then I'm pretty interested to see what the Imagineers and James Cameron drum up for Avatar....even though I have zero interest in the movie itself.

 

Same, and I haven't even seen the damn movie (no interest in it when it was released).

[Jew]

Non Cars fans may like the ride and the land and the new entry plaza, but would they have liked anything that cost a billion dollars? And I'd have to guess that putting in 5 $200 million rides would have impressed folks more than what was put in.

 

The billion dollar figure includes everything they've done over the last five years: Carsland, Buena Vista Street, Paradise Pier overhaul, Midway Mania, Little Mermaid, and, World of Color. Judging by the fact that Disney theme park revenue and attendance keep rising, I'd say it's worked out quite well for the company.

[Rastuso]

I'm amazed how so many people attack anything that isn't praising Carsland as the best ever.

 

And E Ticket is an extremely normal thing to use as discussion for Disney rides. It has evolved greatly over the years. Throwing out a list of them 40 years ago is completely pointless.

 

And I don't believe TSMM is included. A lot of that billion was spent on things that added nothing, due to the disaster that was DCA.

 

R

Edited June 18, 2012 by Rastuso

[Jew]

^I don't think anybody really cares that you are not praising Carsland. Rather, I think people are questioning your comments about the target demographic and your prediction the area will not be a success.

[coasterfreak101]

And this is an E-Ticket. I don't see why we're discussing this. Do you consider Big Thunder Mountain to be an E-Ticket? This goes faster, is longer in length, and has an extensive dark ride portion, but you want to consider it to be at a lesser level. It has nothing to do with how much they spent on the ride - it's at an E-Ticket level, and I don't understand how anyone could possibly argue otherwise. Sure, you can argue that the $200-250 million price tag is high for what they have, and while I disagree that's your opinion. But saying that this major ride isn't an E-Ticket is absurd.

 

^To add to that, it's hard to take your opinion totally into consideration considering that you haven't been in the area yet. The same can be said for me - I don't have any more basis than you do for my opinions of this area and the rides in it. But people who have been are loving it, and I'm sure the kids are loving it, and I guarantee Disney is going to see a return on this investment, just as they did for the Paradise Pier revamp and the addition of World of Color and The Little Mermaid.

[BeemerBoy]

I'll just put it this way. Before the billion dollar investment, I had little to no interest in visiting the park. Now I do.

 

Money well spent.

Edited June 18, 2012 by BeemerBoy

[coasterfreak101]

And I don't believe TSMM is included. A lot of that billion was spent on things that added nothing, due to the disaster that was DCA.

 

The $1.1 billion price tag includes the new Buena Vista Street buildings and facades, the minor things they've changed in the Hollywood Backlot/Hollywood Land including the Red Line trolleys and new shows, the revamp of Paradise Pier as a whole including the new eateries and theme on Mulholland Madness/Goofy's Sky School, the repainting and small changes made to California Screamin' and Mickey's Fun Wheel, Toy Story Midway Mania, Ariel's Undersea Adventure, World of Color, and all of Carsland.

 

I imagine that it also went into the things you might not even think about, like the new Mickey ears that sync to shows, the Blue Sky Cellar, the removal of Maliboomer, and so on.

 

Seems to me like that billion went pretty far.

[Wes]

Just like we have armchair engineers, seems like we have some armchair accountants that completely understand Disney's budgeting and where it went and know they didn't get a good deal for $1.1b.

[WFChris]

As an adult that visits with other adults to the Disneyland Resort, I have to say that many of us prefer going to DCA over DL (I realize I may be in the minority). Keep in mind that this opinion came with the years of walls up, so that has to say something. I have been slowly experiencing the improvements and seeing the park slowly come to life. Now that the park is complete, I feel like it's 'all grown up' and is truly a functional all day experience. I think part of what we like about the park is the lack of Disney Fan crazy people, as they have all found their niche at Disneyland.

 

I see some of my future visits involving much less park-hopping than they have in the past; as I really think I can leave DCA now feeling the 'Disney Magic.' I also appreciate the fact that it is operating on a full schedule now, as we would often spend the day at DCA, and hop over to DL only because it was open for another 5 hours.

[Sir Clinksalot]

On another subject, regarding AP Renewals:

 

Received the renewal notice for our daughters pass that expires July 23rd. Went on to the DL site fully expecting it to be at the new increased rate but it was actually at the old rate, and with the $20 discount to boot.

 

So if you are up for renewal soon I'd suggest doing it ASAP!! From what I'm hearing if you renew your pass prior to 7/1 you can get the old rate. But obviously if you aren't renewing within the window (is it 35 days?) then your renewal date will have to be before August 5th or so.

[Top Thrill Dragster]

The renewal window is 40 days. I wish it were 60 days like WDW.

[Rastuso]

Just like we have armchair engineers, seems like we have some armchair accountants that completely understand Disney's budgeting and where it went and know they didn't get a good deal for $1.1b.

 

Well, I am an engineer, and I've been working on a $4 billion dollar project for years, what are your credentials, Mr Knowitall?

 

And I never said Carsland won't be a success. How can it now be? It's he only Disney part of DCA. It is just in my opinion that RSR isn't what I expected to cost $250 million. I think it is just a really fancy D ticket. Funny thing is, JJ said the same thing, and wasn't chastised, Wes obviously has something against me.

 

 

And the other $800 million went to redecorating the park, and adding a C and D ticket, and I just don't think 95% of the people buying a normal ticket gives two shits about the improvements to the entry plaza and Pier, which cost quite a bit of cash.

 

The point is, a ton of the money went to redoing big areas of the park, not adding to the park.

 

 

RO

[Rastuso]

I'll just put it this way. Before the billion dollar investment, I had little to no interest in visiting the park. Now I do.

 

Money well spent.

 

Really?

 

I'd sure hope that if you post to this site, a billion dollar investment would catch your eye. Hell, I'd think half that should catch eye.

 

But that sure doesn't mean it's money we'll spent. Millennium Force and Son of Beast opened the same year, and cost the same. We're they both good investments? They were both very big investments for their respective parks.

 

R

[Jew]

^Old DCA=Son of Beast; New DCA=Millenium Force.

 

I'm still confused as to why the DCA makeover is not money well spent. They've managed re-invent the park: no more bad press and negative reviews. Meanwhile, attendance and revenue have just kept going up with no end in sight according to many Wall Street analysts.

[netdvn]

Just like we have armchair engineers, seems like we have some armchair accountants that completely understand Disney's budgeting and where it went and know they didn't get a good deal for $1.1b.

 

Well, I am an engineer, and I've been working on a $4 billion dollar project for years, what are your credentials, Mr Knowitall?

 

And I never said Carsland won't be a success. How can it now be? It's he only Disney part of DCA. It is just in my opinion that RSR isn't what I expected to cost $250 million. I think it is just a really fancy D ticket. Funny thing is, JJ said the same thing, and wasn't chastised, Wes obviously has something against me.

 

 

And the other $800 million went to redecorating the park, and adding a C and D ticket, and I just don't think 95% of the people buying a normal ticket gives two shits about the improvements to the entry plaza and Pier, which cost quite a bit of cash.

 

The point is, a ton of the money went to redoing big areas of the park, not adding to the park.

Well, before the expansion, 95% of those people wouldn't have set foot through the gate. World of Color, Mermaid, and Midway Mania seem to have drawn a lot of people to the park.

 

JJ didn't really "chastise" the ride. At most he said some parts need some tweaking to be improved. I don't really see how RSR is a D ticket ride either. The ride seems to have great effects and a solid finale that looks like it could be great with a group of friends. Definitely on par with other E ticket rides out there.

 

Thes expansions and upgrades have done wonders for a park that opened as a failure. I'm looking forward to DCAs future projects to come.

[cfc]

^Old DCA=Son of Beast; New DCA=Millenium Force.

 

I'm still confused as to why the DCA makeover is not money well spent. They've managed re-invent the park: no more bad press and negative reviews. Meanwhile, attendance and revenue have just kept going up with no end in sight according to many Wall Street analysts.

 

Agreed. I thought the old DCA was "nice," and my parents actually enjoyed it there (they're big fans of Soarin', as are many elderly people); at the same time, I did think it was seriously lacking.

 

The makeover is Disney finally building the park they should've built in the first place.

[Sir Clinksalot]

I'm going to refrain from commenting ... I actually enjoyed Eureka!, so what do I know?

 

If you don't know what it is, here you go. http://yesterland.com/eureka.html

[cfc]

^I did catch the Eureka parade once, and thought it was OK--but I recall many people being a bit confused about it.

[BeemerBoy]

I'll just put it this way. Before the billion dollar investment, I had little to no interest in visiting the park. Now I do.

 

Money well spent.

 

Really?

Yes, really.

 

I'd sure hope that if you post to this site, a billion dollar investment would catch your eye. Hell, I'd think half that should catch eye.

In frequenting this site, generally every construction project "catches my eye," but that wasn't the point being made.

 

But that sure doesn't mean it's money we'll spent. Millennium Force and Son of Beast opened the same year, and cost the same. We're they both good investments? They were both very big investments for their respective parks.

 

Seriously, you're comparing the DCA makeover to Millennium Force and Son of Beast? With all due respect, remind me never to hire your engineering services. We're clearly not on the same page.

 

The point is, a ton of the money went to redoing big areas of the park, not adding to the park.

So redoing big areas of the park doesn't add to the overall value? Interesting.

[ernierocker]

For some reason, I am reminded of that game show 1 Vs. 100 after reading through the last few pages...

 

Except, the one person in this case doesn't get off the stage after he has lost.

Edited June 19, 2012 by ernierocker

[Manic Monte]

After visiting the park yesterday, I would encourage anyone with doubt to actually get out to the park and experience the changes "in person". It is without a doubt, awesome. There's only so much you can get from the internet.

[Rastuso]

Again, No ne is truly reading my comments.

 

I have never said the money spent was not needed, or that it isn't going to help improve the park. How can it not? But to say it is money well spent is a different thing. A lot of the money doesn't seem to be well spent. TLM was about $100 million, and seemed to do nothing to attendance, and was heavily criticized for not seeming to be worth it's budget. Even TSMM doesn't have NEAR the lines it has at WDW. And the large sums used to remove the original theming is very hard to justify.

 

RSR looks very cool. But im already seeing comments of the mouth projections being off, and it's down a lot. Yep, it's new, and we'll have to see how it does going forward. I personally think a $250 million dollar ride should be more than RSR. I have that opinion after seeing Forbidden Journey and Transformers. I originally posted, agreeing with JJ, who said he didn't think the ride was an E Ticket.

 

And we really don't know how good of an investment even Carsland is. It sure hasn't done what people were saying it would. Even opening day was crowded, yet plenty of people got multiple rides on it, even with a big downtime. And Sunday, which was to be Armageddon, due to APs, was really just the same as opening day, and the rest of the park is still about normal.

 

Folks on here saying its a great investment because they want to go now have little economic sense. There needs to be over 10 MILLION visitors JUST for the new additions for Disney to break even with admissions. And those visitors need to show up in the next 2 or 3 years to really impact the IRR. If merch sales increase dramatically, that will help, but thats a number we never see. We'll see if that happens, before idiotically saying its a great investment because RSR is really cool, so it's a billion dollars well spent.

 

There is no argument against me except "it's a cool ride, so you are obviously wrong".

 

-ro

[BeemerBoy]

Maybe their next investment should be a $100 million animatronic of you standing at the gate telling each guest how idiotic they are for liking the improvements made to the park?

 

 

 

 

Scott "has little economic sense" B.

[mcjaco]

I don't get out to Disney very often. For me an E-ticket is a signature attraction in both popularity and scale. Personally for me it's a ride that I would plan a trip to the resort around. Carsland fits the bill on all fronts IMO.

 

QFT.

 

Can we stop arguing with someone that has clearly indicated that 1) he's only watched the POV, and 2) he didn't even watch the whole thing.

[jedimaster1227]

^^^I'd imagine people aren't reading your comments because your posting tone is extremely off-putting.

 

TLM was about $100 million, and seemed to do nothing to attendance, and was heavily criticized for not seeming to be worth it's budget. Even TSMM doesn't have NEAR the lines it has at WDW. And the large sums used to remove the original theming is very hard to justify.

 

Sometimes additions aren't made solely for the impact of attendance figures. The Little Mermaid was the first major character-based addition to the park since Toy Story Mania and Monsters Inc. before it. California Adventure suffered from a lack of character, which in turn meant a lack of guest connection to the park, lost sales revenue in synergistic merchandising (you have no idea how well The Little Mermaid and Toy Story sell). And looking at the lines of the attraction, you need to stop and look at the capacity. Mermaid is an omnimover, one that is quite efficiently run. If the ride doesn't have a long line, it isn't for lack of popularity, it is for excess of capacity, which is a positive for this attraction! As for Toy Story Mania, not sure where you are getting your figures, because I've waited just as long for the DCA version as I have for the DHS version, if not longer. And as a part of the total park revitalization project, both of these additions (as well as all others) were made to create a more complete park experience, rather than the discounted version that opened in 2001 and trailed along through 2005.

 

Radiator Springs Racers... People are complaining about the mouths being off? Some of the most advanced and lifelike character animatronics are introduced and people complain about the mouths? It is this same kind of nitpicking that made Disney change the "dole whip hair" on the Little Mermaid ride, and the end result wasn't any better. It's this false sense of entitlement that clouds the fan's ability to see a quality product for what it is, rather than what it should be. The general public doesn't care to notice that the mouth is slightly off center when the rest of the animatronic, let alone the environment enveloping it looks stunning. Hate to remind everyone here, but these parks are a business first, and therefore cater to the general public, not the nitpicking fans who notice the problems in a new attraction first, rather than the successes.

 

Again, you look at the opening day crowds as a judge for the successful measure of the park as it is now? What a flawed way of analyzing the process. Do you have the statistics in hand to prove that the thousands of guests all did every attraction in the new area multiple times? Do you have the data to suggest that the attendance figures were merely a spike and should drop back down to what they were before the revitalization project started five years ago as early as next week?

 

Yes, you may be an engineer. But that doesn't make you a park operations expert. Or a statistician capable of predicting the success of a project that only opened a few days ago.

 

There is no argument for you except "read, laugh at the persistent arrogance, and move on."

Edited June 19, 2012 by jedimaster1227