Religious Beliefs

[matty_bhoy]

I continously think about this topic. I always get deeply confused, why are we alive? what are we meant to do? What is the point? And why would somebody (God) bother with it all if it is causing so much pain for everyone.

 

I'm getting confused thinking about it now

 

My brother and I always have arguments about how everything began, he doesn't believe in any sort of religion (even though he was Dux in his Text and Traditions class in Yr 11, and is considered a catholic.) but he believes in the Big Bang theory and I just don't understand how that could work without the help of someone who started it all.

 

But one thing I do believe is that there is something after life. I have to believe in it otherwise nothing would make sense to me at all and if it is heaven your soul will always be forgiven and you would be accepted into heaven.

[Steffen_Dk]

My brother and I always have arguments about how everything began, he doesn't believe in any sort of religion (even though he was Dux in his Text and Traditions class in Yr 11, and is considered a catholic.) but he believes in the Big Bang theory and I just don't understand how that could work without the help of someone who started it all.

 

Well, I'm a lutheran. I believe in almost everything which stands in the new testament, but I also strong believe in the science.

I believe in the Big Bang and that stuff, because I can see the meaning with the helium and hydrogen.

But then I have endless questions...

Where did the hydrogen and helium come from. Something must have made it. And where did this thing, which made the hydrogen and helium come from, and where did this come from.......

You can't make something out of nothing!! And therefor I also believe in God. Not Adam and Eve and Moses, but that there must be something or someone who made the things the Univers is made of.

[Jumboshrmp]

I'm catholic and have been Baptised, Confirmed, Reconciled and had my First Eucharist. Still though, I don't really believe in all the messages the church tries to teach. I do believe though that there is no such place as 'Hell' and all souls are forgiven and everyone is given a second chance and welcome in Heaven.

 

I can honestly say that I don't live by then ten commandments because really I think it is impossible, I don't pray often, I have only been Reconciled twice and only go to church for Christmas Eve and school but still I believe I will be welcomed to heaven and it comforts me to know that. Also to know that I don't have to live my life worrying about everything I do and hope the my maturity will stop me doing anything stupid.

 

hopefully

 

I have also recieved all of the sacrements you just listed. While I agree that some of the church's messages can be often exaggerated, I do believe that hell exists. While I definitely agree agree, all souls are given a second chance, and God DOES forgive everyone, hell exists for a reason. There are some people who are not willing to accept God's forgiveness. These are the people who end up going to "the other place".

 

 

EDIT:

Also, I both agree and disagree with what Wes is saying. Yes, I believe in science, and the big bang, and dinosaurs and evolution. Some may say this doesn't make me a true Catholic, but I believe in these things because they make sense.

However, to me, it doesn't make sense that there couldn't be a God. Because the Big Bang may have created the Universe, but who created the Big Bang? Who created matter, the laws of physics, and where did the space that the universe takes up come from? Life is a very complicated thing, it is pretty much imposible to create, and the earth alone works together to provide all of it's inhabitants with what they need to survive. I cannot see all of this happening by chance. I believe that there is a God, he does exist, and chances are, you will meet him once you leave this life. I pretty much believe most of what happens in the bible, and while "Adam and Eve" doesn't really match up with "Evolution", I kinda take both with a grain of salt, and I don't really question too much of what I can't explain, because that's what faith is.

 

...I really need to stop rambling now.... I'm going to check my Wii cause the blue light is glowing...

[Real]

I have to say I'm with Laura on this. You can't really accept the person without also accepting their beliefs. Anything else is superficial and hence pointless. Why would you say you accept somebody if you were not also okay with their lifestyle. That's diluting to the strength of your own faith that you would willingly put on a facade of acceptance when in reality you are just tolerating.

 

Because then you completely dilute your own beliefs by watering down what you believe with what others believe.

 

See, since you've never truely tried this, you cant understand how to seperate the two. Such as premarital sex. Its part of alot of peoples lifestyles. I disagree with it. But if I go around just accepting it because alot of people do it, how am I practicing what I believe? How am I being different from everyone else if I just accept all the things I am supposed to view as wrong? and I become a hypocrite if I say its wrong, then go and do it. Just as I would also be a hypocrite to myself if I told everyone its "ok" but inside I viewed it as wrong. That path leads to Universalism where everything is "ok". A highly dangerous path.

 

But the catch to that is that Im not doing the condemning. But I still view it as wrong. Its when people seperate the two entities, then condemn that things get really sticky. Read the story in the Bible of the adulterer that no one condemns. Did Jesus say what she did was ok or that he accepted it? No. He mearly said that since the others were no more rightous than her, that they do not condemn - and neither does he. So go and turn from what wrong you did. Simple.

 

 

And your statement that faith is not an action is proposterous. The very CORE of faith is action. The emotional part is far less a part of faith than action. The faith you speak of sounds like just emotional belief. Real faith is tested and acted upon.

 

For one, Knowledge is an essential part of faith. The story of Peter walking on the water - thats hardly emotional and purely action. If you NEVER test your faith, its not faith at all. Action is the core faith - without it, faith doesnt even exist.

[BeemerBoy]

I'm catholic and have been Baptised, Confirmed, Reconciled and had my First Eucharist. Still though, I don't really believe in all the messages the church tries to teach. I do believe though that there is no such place as 'Hell' and all souls are forgiven and everyone is given a second chance and welcome in Heaven.

 

I can honestly say that I don't live by then ten commandments because really I think it is impossible, I don't pray often, I have only been Reconciled twice and only go to church for Christmas Eve and school but still I believe I will be welcomed to heaven and it comforts me to know that. Also to know that I don't have to live my life worrying about everything I do and hope the my maturity will stop me doing anything stupid.

 

hopefully

Actually, with all due respect, you sound a bit confused. It seems as though you treat your religion as a country club type of membership deal. "Hey look God, I'm a card carrying Catholic. I don't really follow the 10 Commandments, only show up to church when I need to, and really don't believe in hell. Can I get in to heaven now? Thanks." Yes, if you truly believe and accept Jesus as your savior, God will forgive you of your sins, but you may wanna put a little effort into following His word in the meantime.

 

And before you ask, yes, I speak from experience. I've recently converted to Methodism (which is not far off from Catholicism) after spending the first 31 years of my life as a Catholic. Trust me, I understand the "laziness" associated with the Catholic faith. At times when I was younger, I was just as guilty of not being as involved in church as I should've been. I've since learned from that mistake.

[Real]

Yes, if you truly believe and accept Jesus as your savior, God will forgive you of your sins, but you may wanna put a little effort into following His word in the meantime.

 

Ahh, but to truely believe and accept also means you need to do what you say, put in effort. A decision made with that kind of heart would lead a person not to a life of lakadazical attitude, but a zealous attitude. When people make desicions that are made with passion (as such this decision should be) then that often carries over for long periods of time.

 

Of course people will falter here and there, thats life. But I dont believe the people who kind of throw it out there to God really mean it or understand what they are doing and thus, arent receiving the forgiveness they want.

[ginzo]

Science itself could be a religion then. We barely know anything when you sit down and start to ponder what we dont know. Plus, Science is always changing. Very few things are laws, very few. Then, still few are rock solid facts. Alot of the ideals and such printed in text books are "accepted" theories. They havent been completely proven, but, because we may or cant fully prove it, but it should be right (because we cant fully understand) it is accepted by the majority.

 

Science is not a religion. It has completely different philosophical underpinnings. Science is about discovering the physical world. Religion purports to explain everything, physical and metaphysical. Science does not cover anything metaphysical.

 

You are correct that the body of human knowledge is limited compared to what is out there waiting to be discovered. But, how does that make science a religion? And, there are plenty of laws in science.

 

First Law of Thermodynamics

Second Law of Thermodynamics

Ideal Gas Law

Newton's 3 Laws

Ohm's Law

Law of Gravitation

 

Just to name a few. These are called laws because there have never been any situations observed where they were violated. Never. Scientific theories are made to explain the laws of nature, but the word "theory" in science has a different meaning than in common usage. A scientific theory is well-established, supported by countless experiments. Disproving a scientific theory is a momentous achievement, which would certainly win you a Nobel Prize at the least.

 

So, in reality, science is in the same boat. Heck, alot of science is faith based anyways. Whos to say that math, the very numbers we created, are even accurate at all? Whos to say we havent totally missed another numbering system? But, its all we know.

 

Nonsense! Math is what gives science credibility, because it is reliable. It was Descartes who made this contribution several hundred years ago. If math were broken, lots of other things wouldn't work, like our government, computers, sports, and capitalist economy. Have you ever yelled at a cashier in a store for being overcharged, because "math isn't accurate"? Probably not. You might get angry when they do the math incorrectly, but this has nothing to do with the reliability of math.

[coasterman7]

I'm a baptist, I've accepted Jesus as my Savior, and I've been baptised.

[Spookbaby]

 

 

Christianity also says to accept everyone. In my opinion, this also includes their beliefs (religious or not) and lifestyle choices. Just as some examples, I love my gay friends and atheist friends just as much as I love my Christian friends (I actually love some of them more because they're not as uptight. LOL

 

 

Laura "no better way to make someone uncomfortable then to talk about religion" Huls

 

Why cant more Christians understand this? The only flaw I see is you accept the person, not the sin. If their beliefs include sin, then you cant accept that. But you can accept the person because no matter what anyone says, they are two seperate entities.

 

 

Okay, you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I don't think anybody's beliefs include sin. For instance, all of my gay friends, I don't think that they include sin. So I accept all parts of them. I believe that if they're gay, they're supposed to be gay. That's how they were made and that's what makes them feel like themselves and makes them happy.

 

Because then you completely dilute your own beliefs by watering down what you believe with what others believe.

 

See, since you've never truely tried this, you cant understand how to seperate the two. Such as premarital sex. Its part of alot of peoples lifestyles. I disagree with it. But if I go around just accepting it because alot of people do it, how am I practicing what I believe? How am I being different from everyone else if I just accept all the things I am supposed to view as wrong? and I become a hypocrite if I say its wrong, then go and do it. Just as I would also be a hypocrite to myself if I told everyone its "ok" but inside I viewed it as wrong. That path leads to Universalism where everything is "ok". A highly dangerous path.

 

I don't believe that I have diluted my faith at all. I believe what I believe and that's all there is to it. You have just zeroed in on one of my biggest pet peeves. People who think that if you don't follow of believe the Bible exactly then you're not living "God's way" and therefore less of a Christian.

 

I am a Christian. However, a lot of people have issues with the fact that I'm a Christian who supports gay rights, has premarital sex, who's favorite word is f*ck, and who is scheduled to have nude photos taken of them.

 

All of these things, I believe, do not dilute my faith nor do I believe that I am compromising it.

 

Laura "I'm sure i have more to say on the subject but I can't think of it right now" Huls

[ginzo]

and who is scheduled to have nude photos taken of them.

 

Are you going to post a PTR of that?

[Fallen Heretic]

I was Baptised age 6 (by my own choice) and was raised a Christian from birth pretty much (protestant if it makes a difference).

 

However, I am no longer a Christian. I have many reasons for this, which Im not going to go into here.

 

I guess the best way to describe my current beliefs is 'undecided but open minded'. You could say Im leaning towards being agnostic.

[mcjaco]

I was born and raised Catholic. Never believed a word of it, but had to go because that's what everyone in my family expected. I've stopped going altogether, as my last experience with the catholic church was miserable.

 

My Father expected my wife and I to get married in a Catholic ceremony. It wasn't something we were planning, but it wasn't that big of deal if it would make him happy. For those of you that are married, you'll understand the picking and choosing your battles as the wedding plans unfold. The priest at my church for years had just left, and a new one had come in. I have never met a man that was so full of angst in my life. He was the most unwelcoming, arrogant, pissy excuse for a man. We almost got up and left during one of our meetings. Really made me feel welcome at a church I had been attending for the last 25 years. I haven't been back to church since.

 

I also had a gay usher, the church didn't fall into a black abyss. Where does that leave us?

[ParkTrips]

So, in reality, science is in the same boat. Heck, alot of science is faith based anyways. Whos to say that math, the very numbers we created, are even accurate at all? Whos to say we havent totally missed another numbering system? But, its all we know.

numbers are just a representation of what *is*. Just words and symbols, and they could change but the substance doesn't.

 

Please don't hate on math!

[RNRC]

I'm baptist and a strong Christian. I've been going to church all my life and I like it the way. I love the Lord with all my heart and I can't wait to get to Heaven. I strive to live each day for Him but I fail many, many times. Luckily, God is very forgiving and always takes me back.

 

Also, in order to be a Christian all you have to do is ask the Lord Jesus into your life and to take control, and acknowledge that God sent his son Jesus to die on the cross for you (and rose again 3 days later) because you are a sinner and do not deserve it. However, his sacrifice and blood is enough for eternal salvation. We just have to reach out and accept the best gift ever, for free. Baptism is an act of obedience but not a requirement for salvation.

 

 

Thank you. What worries me is some of the things that I have said about God in the past may be unforgivable. Months back, I got angry easily and started saying terrible things to God and I feel awful about that. I worry that I won't be forgiven for that. But what upsets me the most, is the thought that my dad could be suffering for all eternity. There's no way he'll ever believe in God, so I don't think there's any way out of it for him. I konw that there's nothing I can do to make them believe and I'm spending most of my life worrying about them.

[Real]

Nonsense! Math is what gives science credibility, because it is reliable. It was Descartes who made this contribution several hundred years ago. If math were broken, lots of other things wouldn't work, like our government, computers, sports, and capitalist economy. Have you ever yelled at a cashier in a store for being overcharged, because "math isn't accurate"? Probably not. You might get angry when they do the math incorrectly, but this has nothing to do with the reliability of math.

 

I never said math was broken, nor implied. I simply was posing an outrageous idea (isnt that a big part of science?) that maybe the math we know isnt the entire math. And I am talking about numbers too. Its very hard to imagine that theres something out there beyond numbers that could add or subtract (more math) from what we have, but I think its foolish to lock the issue out just because its incredibly hard to imagine. Additionally too because it was already mentioned that numbers represent what is - but do we know all there is to know on that subject?

 

Im most just posing questions to stir the brain to think. But, as with most Scientifics, once their brain reaches the point where they cant go past, its stopped and accepted. Its just like God, religion or beings we cant explain with Science. Is that because there is NO way, or because we arent smart enough to devise a way?

 

A long time ago we couldnt comprehend that the Earth wasnt the center of the universe, till we got a little smarter and devised some ways to make a theory which could then later be validated. Same for the Earth being flat.

 

My theory/question is mearly this. Fact is relative. Fact is relative to the amount of knowledge we have at that given moment. Because as someone else pointed out, years down the road we could get a little smarter and go back and find out its wrong and fix it. Was it a fact? For that time, but it isnt now.

 

Its alarming that so many people have warped some of the things Ive said, especially reguarding numbers, when I am working towards being an Engineer! Think outside the box.

 

 

Spooky - I never said I hated you or anything resembling that. And as a Christian you should be open to another Christian talking to you about what you believe. Being part of that family means you part of the community - a community that talks about all those little idiocincracies(sp) we have. I dont believe that just parts of the Bible are to be followed, but all of it. But I know and have friends who have your exact beliefs, none of whom I hate nor do I get on their case.

 

I would think theres a major problem if one of your major pet peeves is someone who tells you what they think - without condemning you - something I didnt do. To me, and this may suprise some people, that makes me think you arent open to growth, change and maturity - some of the major keys to a Christian faith. There are some things that were parts of my belief years ago that I deemed were good and ok but through the years, studying, prayer, etc. I came to change them because it ended up being both better for myself and better for my relationship with God.

 

Im certainly not offended by anything youve said, or anyone else. Last thing Im going to do is try and convert someone which is why Ive stuck to statements about my own beliefs (pretty sure thats the topic) and asking others about theirs. Just like I wont touch Catholism or Muslim, Hindu etc with a 10ft pole because I know very little about them. Only way to gain knowledge is to get others to talk about theirs.

 

EDIT - One more thing Spook, nude pictures of ones self is not what I would even consider sin. Depending on the act depicted withn (duh) the human body is incredibly beautiful and one of the greatest art peices the world will ever see. Being an amatuer photographer, I respect and admire nude photography thats done to beautify the body and the humans we were created to be.

[ginzo]

I never said math was broken, nor implied. I simply was posing an outrageous idea (isnt that a big part of science?) that maybe the math we know isnt the entire math. And I am talking about numbers too. Its very hard to imagine that theres something out there beyond numbers that could add or subtract (more math) from what we have, but I think its foolish to lock the issue out just because its incredibly hard to imagine. Additionally too because it was already mentioned that numbers represent what is - but do we know all there is to know on that subject?

 

I think that falls under the category of "duh". We probably don't know everything about math. But, what we do know is solid, and has served us well.

 

But, as with most Scientifics, once their brain reaches the point where they cant go past, its stopped and accepted.

 

Things are accepted in empirical science when there is a preponderance of evidence in support of them. Science is inherently reductionist, which has caused some philosophers, like Nietzsche, to criticize it. But, this is a necessary evil, as our intelligence only goes so far.

 

Its just like God, religion or beings we cant explain with Science. Is that because there is NO way, or because we arent smart enough to devise a way?

 

If God is a non-physical entity, then science has no way to study Him.

 

A long time ago we couldnt comprehend that the Earth wasnt the center of the universe, till we got a little smarter and devised some ways to make a theory which could then later be validated. Same for the Earth being flat.

 

Funny you should bring that up. Galileo was inquisitioned for that discovery. Not exactly religion's finest hour. But, the Earth and the solar system are physical bodies that we can study with instruments. How do you see a non-physical entity with a telescope?

 

My theory/question is mearly this. Fact is relative. Fact is relative to the amount of knowledge we have at that given moment. Because as someone else pointed out, years down the road we could get a little smarter and go back and find out its wrong and fix it. Was it a fact? For that time, but it isnt now.

 

My area of scientific interest is neuroscience. I'm working towards this being my profession. John Lilly, one of the most famous neuroscientists, said that humans will never fully understand the brain, because we are not smart enough. I think he might be right, but it's still fun to try.

[Wes]

Okay, this is a preemptive warning about this steering off into Flameville. Keep the discussion civil and respectful. Everything has been positive so far, so keep it up.

[jamesdillaman]

Just my two cents on the baptism thing. This is for the christians. If you read the ENTIRE Bible, concentrating on the New Testament

(because your CHRIST-ian!), Jesus was the last person that was baptised with water. I believe John the Baptist was saying "And the time will come when someone greater than me will come, and where I baptise with water, He will baptise with the power of the holy spirit." So technically, (and again this comes from someone who's studied the bible extensively, and gone back to the ancient hebrew and greek, not to mention living with someone who has a Masters of Divinity degree from a Seminary) being baptised is accepting Jesus as your savior. It's the "new baptism" as the Bible refers to it. The water is just a ceremony, like communion, which the older more jewish traditional churches (especially including the Roman Catholics) seem to stress more.

 

-James Dillaman

[smells_like_team_disney]

Wow, so many good points in this thread, let's not ruin them with flame wars. As for me, I was raised in a Catholic church, but not a traditional one. Ours was more revival. All my life I've come across questions and contradictions, and for a while I was even considering leaving the church all together. But there are always these freaky incidents in my life that call me back to the church. Even with all the uncertainty, for me it feels right, but there's no way that what works for me will work for everyone else. And of course it's not going to be perfect. Nothing is in this world, and that's part of the beauty of it all. We need to discover and rediscover constantly in our lives, and that's including our age-old beliefs. It's only then that our faith will be reaffirmed. Oh, and one more thing... Tolerance is the key to happiness (IMHO).

[GMAN962]

This might hurt, but if they really cared about you, they'd accept you for who you are and not your beliefs. No matter what. A lot of my friends are strong Christians, and I'm not a Christian. They accept me for who I am.

Good luck!

 

 

~Mike

[TheBannedKid]

I also think that you need to learn to accept them as who they are. If they decide not to become Christians then support their choice, don't criticize them for their decision. My sister is the only one in the family that is very religious and just a few months ago she told us that our uncle is going to hell because he is jewish. I find that to be a very bad quality to a person...and here she is trying to live a pure life as a good person. Thats why I think its a good idea for you to learn acceptance of others...like Laura has done.

[larrygator]

Unfortunately, there is no easy answer that can be accepted as universal truth. Not matter what anyone says there is no documented proof of someone going to heaven or hell and returning to earth.

 

That is why it is called faith.

 

I'm a science guy by nature and logic tends to rule my life but I strongly beleive that a supreme being is behind everything. I don't know how that supreme being came to be, so don't ask.

 

Some religions will tell you that God is a compassionate, loving and forgiving being yet at the same time say that you must conform to a set of rules to be saved. That doesn't sound compassionate to me.

[Real]

If God is a non-physical entity, then science has no way to study Him.

 

That, is where the age-old never ending debate will center too. Science wants a completely tangible object entitled "God". Just like you can put water into a bowl or squeeze air into a cylinder. But, to me, God is in alot of places, encompassing all that we live in. I can look at a forest and say "God is right there, just look at the complexity". Or same with the oceans, especially the oceans since my recent cruise I went on. Same with the human body, in a way, i see the fingerprints.

 

However, science doesnt want the fingerprints, it wants the actual entity which itself is omnipresent so obviously there is no way to put God in a box and do a study.

 

 

I especially like to say "Theres God" when Science fails to provide answers to mysteries that have existed or come up on a daily basis. I myself am a medical miracle where I had a blood mass the size of a fist jammed in my lower back resting up against my stomach preventing me from eating much. I was told the earliest a mass this size could disentegrate (the only way to get rid of it was to just wait) was no less than 5 weeks, more than likle 6-7. It was completely gone with no trace it ever existed in 2 weeks. I went in 2 times during those 2 weeks to get CAT scans, of which the mass was dissolving at a normal rate. So they had data inbetween to go off of. The start of the 3rd week on my 4th CAT scan, it was gone as if it never existed.

 

I went through several doctors, all of whom said "We have no explanation and we couldnt come to one if we wanted - all the evidence is gone - it was a miracle". The people who claim miracles dont happen anymore are completly blind the thousands of miracles that happen every day. Ironically, one of the fields that seems to butt heads with religion on a daily basis, medicine, seems to pop up the most unexplainable miracles on a consistant basis.

 

Sure, you could say that its because we dont or cant have the knowledge to understand what went on but its probably meant to be that way.

 

 

 

TheBannedKid - I find this popping up alot now, where its somehow wrong to believe others are wrong or going to hell. Why is your sister suddenly a bad person for believing someone is going to hell? If what she believes differs from a Jew, then wouldnt she obviously come to that conclusion? Im just perplexed as to why that voids her from trying to live a pure life.

[TheBannedKid]

Yes its obvious that she would come to those views but there is no need to be an ass just because someone has a different view. If you can't be positive to others and accepting of their ways then how does that make you a good and pure person? Personally it's corrupting her good being just because a difference in faith...no wonder why religious wars occur.

[robbalvey]

^ Geez TJ. You sure are in a bad mood....I guess Jahan didn't get you out of bed today did he?

 

LMAO!!!!

 

--Robb