Apollo's chariot pumping on first drop?

[DailyBugle_JL]

^So are coaster not allowed to have straight tracks anymore im still confused. Who ever pointed this out is a true dork. Ever think that BGW wanted AC to glide across the water.

 

At first I thought you where talking about pumps to pump out water but i was obviously wrong. Three pages later and I have yet the figure out wtf pumping is.

[willski]

Okay, this really isn't a difficult concept.

 

Pumping is what 95% of the NL coasters made by members here do.

 

 

Basically, you want the radius of a hill or turn to be constant. That would be contantly getting smaller or larger or staying constant. For example, a bunny hop consists of a radius that starts large and then becomes smaller. For the top, the radius is large, then small, then large. For the pullout, the radius increases.

 

So, to put it in math terms, you want the derivative of the graph of the radius curve (as seen in Elementary) to be a contant number (or the radius curve graph can be constant).

 

Jaguar does not pump. Ninja does not pump. Maybe some older wooden coaster pump because they have been worn in or because the designer just winged it. Many older wooden coasters designers had nothing more than a protractor, straightedge, and a compass to design coasters. So they had no lead-ins, but they still had no pumping.

 

 

If anyone is a member of Coastersims, you can see this in Red's "I'm so sick of transitions" thread.

 

 

 

 

So, once again, pumping is when the radius of a turn or hill is not contant or constantly changing. It's really easy.

[niiicolaaah]

I still don't get it!

 

Ted and Paul don't either, so I don't feel bad!

 

*edit* ok i get it now.. sorta

[willski]

^I think what makes it so hard to understand is that it's really hard to give any examples in terms of pictures, since it's not a desirable thing at all and every manufacturer avoids pumping.

 

 

I would post an NL picture of pumping, but I don't really have any handy, so......

[Shockwave]

Add my name to the WTF club.

 

I think I get the idea, but that's a really stupid name for it!

[Wes]

I'm confused as well.

[willski]

^If you look from the back of the train during the "pumping" turn, the train looks like it's pumping through the turn. It will look like it's speeding up, then slowing down, then speeding, etc.

 

 

EDIT: Dammit, I'll get FRAPS out and make a video for all of you who are WTF-ing on this. Check here later.

[jmccalip]

Look at these.

Not constant, makes a "bump" in the track. Pumping.

Constant radius, no pumping.

[CoasterFanatic]

OK. So it has finally become apparent that this is not so much a real-world term as a No-Limits term for a inside of the software. Consider me not in the loop, since I haven't even opened the program since the first day of release.

 

With that said, who wants a perfect turn? Sounds boring to me.

 

// give me the "pumping"!

[Wes]

What's a pumpkin?

[alpengeist04]

Pumping There's nothing wrong with Apollo's Chariot.

[jamesissoocool]

i know about pumping but the coaster thats gets me is this one

dose it or not

[happyscrappy]

Ok, I think what is confusing people is the actual term "pumping" - even if that is the official term. Most people here probably have felt this on a coaster before.

 

I'm pretty sure I know what pumping is, and (to me) it's more like a chugging sensation. It's hard to describe, but when you're on a coaster that does it, it's pretty obvious. I would more closely relate it to chugging becuase it feels almost like a push-pull effect as the train goes through the awkward piece of track. Am I wrong here?

[Calaway Park]

i know about pumping but the coaster thats gets me is this one

 

Dodonpa looks awesome pumping or not...

[Calvin]

Pumping does occur on some rides. Jaguar does pump on more than one of its turns, if only slightly. Many many many wooden coasters pump. SCBB's Giant Dipper has a pump in the turnaround over the station. Even more recent wooden coasters have some pumping somewhere. This is due to the fact that wooden coasters are built on-site instead of being made in molds in a factory, as steel coasters are.

 

Apollo's Chariot does not pump.

 

Many fairground coasters do pump. Take Zyklons as an example. I rode the one at our town fair only weeks ago and I noticed that there was, indeed, a pump in the helix. I am thinking this is due to the fact that they are made somewhat cheaply.

[pvcoasterguy]

Uh... comó se what?

 

I do know that Raging Bull gives quite the back massage at the bottom of all the hills, though. Does that count? And it's actually getting bothersome and nearly rough.

[SLUSHIE]

i know about pumping but the coaster thats gets me is this one

 

Dodonpa looks awesome pumping or not...

 

It probably doesn't considering how slow you go when reaching the top.

[Guest]

Pumping does occur on some rides. Jaguar does pump on more than one of its turns, if only slightly. Many many many wooden coasters pump. SCBB's Giant Dipper has a pump in the turnaround over the station. Even more recent wooden coasters have some pumping somewhere. This is due to the fact that wooden coasters are built on-site instead of being made in molds in a factory, as steel coasters are.

 

Apollo's Chariot does not pump.

 

Many fairground coasters do pump. Take Zyklons as an example. I rode the one at our town fair only weeks ago and I noticed that there was, indeed, a pump in the helix. I am thinking this is due to the fact that they are made somewhat cheaply.

 

 

Well there is somewhat of a misconception between shuffling and actual pumping. While wooden coasters might have a pump in the track, it wouldn't really be noticeable as the train is always bouncing between the rails.

 

Fair coasters, because they are taken apart all the time can develop misshapen or warped track.

 

About Apollo's Chariot, I know what I saw. It was very visible from the back seat in the pull out of the drop off the MCBR. There was a very defined buckle of sorts, and the train did a pumping motion. Like I said in an earlier post, I saw it in all my rides. When I got back to the hotel I downloaded PKDcoaster's backseat POV and could see it in that aswell (though not as clearly as in person.

 

Over time rails can warp, and once in a while there are manufacture flaws in the tracks. It's very possible that that piece of track was misshapen a bit, be it from force constantly pushing the rails down, or some type of miscalculation. But it was there.

[pvcoasterguy]

^ Is it possible that this was designed on purpose? I still don't understand the "pumping" concept, but perhpas B&M deliberately made that section of track different to perhaps increase airtime.

 

But really, who knows? And seriously, I believe designing roller coasters in real life is far different from designing in a program like No Limits. So I don't think this frequently used No Limits term could have much validity in usage like this.

[Gnome]

Jaguar does not pump. Ninja does not pump. Maybe some older wooden coaster pump because they have been worn in or because the designer just winged it.

I'm telling you, it does.

 

As for appollo's chariet, I don't think that has a pump. If the radius of the pullout differed that would be considered a pump, but just because there is a strait piece of track between the pull out and the pullup does not mean that it pumps.

[Carnage]

I think I'm starting to somewhat understand what you're talking about.

 

Just what baffles me is how many people are refering to "pumping" as this super obvious term.

 

Do you just mean a hill that changes the rate at which it changes direction?

Is this pumping? Or am I still not getting what this is?

[okinawaboy11]

Uh... comó se what?

 

I do know that Raging Bull gives quite the back massage at the bottom of all the hills, though. Does that count? And it's actually getting bothersome and nearly rough.

 

Last time I rode the Bull the drop under the lift was unusually rough for a Beemer.

[Guest]

^ Is it possible that this was designed on purpose? I still don't understand the "pumping" concept, but perhpas B&M deliberately made that section of track different to perhaps increase airtime.

 

 

Well this pull out would have nothing to do with the airtime. I don't think it was deliberate. There is a visible parabola on the last drop which looks as it could be bad but is definitely deliberate, but where I'm talking abotu I don't think it would be. You can really see the train buckle (which really does nothing to enhance the ride).

 

Just what baffles me is how many people are refering to "pumping" as this super obvious term.

 

Ok, to clear it up. Pumping is used where there is some sort of parabolic arc (think half of a circle), but is not perfect. if you were to pull one end of the circle out a bit, the radius of it would be inconsistant, thus creating the "pump". It's called pump because when a train encounters this type of "flaw", it makes a pump/buckle motion (often most visible from the back seats).

[Calvin]

A turn that pumps. Notice that the radius is not constant.

A turn that doesn't pump. Notice that the radius is constant.

The bottom of a hill that pumps. Notice that the radius is not constant.

The bottom of a hill that doesn't pump. Notice that the radius is constant.

[waterviper]

Basically pumping is noticable transition in a track that is not parabolic in nature when you are riding!! Like a sudden change in angle of a track. So it is not a perfect smooth turn or transistion.

 

Ok take BTMR at Disneyland for instance. You know when you go through the helix and at the end before it pulls out of the helix it does a quick jump "or pump" to the left. (This may apply on the other BTMR's but I never rode them so I dont know). Well that is because the track radius of the turn gets wider at that point. So that is a noticable transistion in a track which causes that "pump" feeling or that quick jump to the left. Which btw is pretty damn fun!!

 

I have also noticed some pumping on Revolution on the last helix. It does a bit of quick transitions (quick change in direction) through the helix twice i believe.