Cedar Point (CP) Discussion Thread

[RCF]

 

Cedar Point didn't do firsts like Batman the Ride, Vortex, Gardaland's Raptor, Oblivion, Xcelerator, Linear Gale, or Detonator at WoF --> a lot of CP's famous records have more to do with scale than with first-to-market status.

 

In earlier times with Gemini and Magnum, the height difference really was something unheard of at the time. The rides were completely unique when first put in, and even the same can be said for Millennium Force. After that, with a slight exception of TTD, give or take on opinion, nothing else has really been done that's new. That's what I'm saying is that nothing unique really has been done at the park in a long time. Nothing they have made in recent years says that they are setting any kind of limits anymore, and I think it's why people are underwhelmed. So many rides are just safe bets and a lot of people here are saying, 'we've seen that before, what can you show us that will wow us?'

[I love pie]

That's what I'm saying is that nothing unique really has been done at the park in a long time.

I'll just leave this here...

[RCF]

That's what I'm saying is that nothing unique really has been done at the park in a long time.

I'll just leave this here...

As stated before, that was great engineering, but nothing new to the industry.

[coasterbill]

I've never seen a regional park held to such ludicrous and unattainable standards. So the problem is that they have too many coasters over 200 feet and since they now have basically every kind of coaster rather than build the few they don't have yet they should invent new coasters and build those. But god forbid one of them was delayed or didn't live up to the hype I'm sure that would be a problem too.

 

People bash "the GP" (a term I basically refuse to use) but if I worked in a park's PR department I think if rather deal with them than some of these enthusiasts any day.

 

And by the way I'm not calling out any one person but everything I just said was a real complaint that was made in this thread in the last few days.

[RCF]

For the hype Cedar Point creates, especially the fan boys with how outstanding the place is and the coasters that get too high of ratings, nothing they have added has help up that reputation. At least with something new for once, (that we have been seeing built elsewhere,) it will at least be something more than a cookie cutter coaster.

[coasterbill]

For the hype Cedar Point creates, especially the fan boys with how outstanding the place is and the coasters that get too high of ratings, nothing they have added has help up that reputation. At least with something new for once, (that we have been seeing built elsewhere,) it will at least be something more than a cookie cutter coaster.

 

I'm sorry I swear I'm not trying to be mean but I can't even begin to try to figure out what this paragraph is attempting to say.

[FaithPlus1]

^ I think he's just trolling the thread.

[coasterbill]

I hope so, I can't tell the difference between a troll and a typical whiny enthusiast any more. the internet must be taking its toll on me. Lol

[RCF]

Yeah, the post was all over the place. My apologies. I was just trying to explain that the latest additions have not lived up to the hype that Cedar Point has created for themselves. That's why I believe something else that hasn't been seen yet would at least try to live up to the hype.

 

My personal opinion about Cedar Point is probably why it seems I'm trolling the thread. I find the place and almost every ride there to be over-hyped. The only one that wowed me was Maverick, but it isn't anything the industry hasn't seen before. The others I rode were fun, but completely over-hyped.

[DoinItForTheFame]

For the hype Cedar Point creates, especially the fan boys with how outstanding the place is and the coasters that get too high of ratings, nothing they have added has help up that reputation. At least with something new for once, (that we have been seeing built elsewhere,) it will at least be something more than a cookie cutter coaster.

 

I'm sorry I swear I'm not trying to be mean but I can't even begin to try to figure out what this paragraph is attempting to say.

 

 

Same. I tried to make sense of it, but I just couldn't. (Not trying to be mean either.)

 

Yeah, the post was all over the place. My apologies. I was just trying to explain that the latest additions have not lived up to the hype that Cedar Point has created for themselves. That's why I believe something else that hasn't been seen yet would at least try to live up to the hype.

 

Okay, now that makes more sense.

 

I think Cedar Point is building a great coaster that will create a lot of hype! Maybe not for coaster enthusiast, but for the GP for sure. I know I am taking my best friend (who is not an enthusiast at all) to Cedar Point for her first ever visit this summer, and she is just as excited for Valravn as she is for TTD. Cedar Point knows what they are doing, and they are doing it well. Just because the enthusiast may not LOVE the new coaster they are building doesn't mean the GP isn't going to eat it up!

[talon2017]

That's what I'm saying is that nothing unique really has been done at the park in a long time.

I'll just leave this here...

this is literally why everyone hates cp fans because you people complain about EVERYTHING and nothing is good enough. like be grateful bc cp is the most spoiled park. my home park is dorney so whatever you complain about we will gladly take it.

[Coaster Universe]

^^^^^^Sorry I quoted the wrong post.

[DoubleDown]

I'll be another to say, Cedar Point could be taking roads less ridden.

 

Tall effing dive coaster, awesome! But we know what B&M offers. It would be nice if they branched out a bit and spent what they did on Gatekeeper and Valverononenomous to give a ride unlike anything else out there. Planting B&M's just seems, mediocre.

 

Flat Mean Streak and make a Lightning Rod. I would say Twisted Colossus was a better move than Valveronomonmous.

 

And last but not least, the rides at Cedar Point really don't do it for me. Even after Millenium Force, my mom decided to skip it for a second ride and went with Top Thrill instead. Yeah they have a coaster count and really are a destination, but as far as I'm concerned Tatsu, X2, and Twisted Colossus pretty much provide thrills unmatched by Cedar Point.

[neil009]

Hey I like Cedar Point, I think their line-up is fantastic. I don't think this coaster adds much to it. Heaven forbid anyone call out Cedar Point for their lack of creativity, right? What a shocking, controversial statement!

 

Every new addition should be filling a need the park has. Cedar Point needs a great, modern woodie, or they need an indoor coaster, or a dark ride, or a water coaster, or etc. I don't see how this ride really offers a new experience for them. Plus it could've been half the size and been a great addition to any of their other parks.

Edited January 17, 2016 by neil009

[DorneyKid14]

I see nothing wrong with CP adding a dive coaster. I think it is a wonderful addition to the park. If you fan boys don't want it send it down route 80 to route 33 to route 78 and drop it off at Dorney. Griffon is a wonderful coaster and it is one that helped me get into loving coasters so much. I can't wait to ride.

[neil009]

^The fact that it's not going to Dorney or a park that really needs it is 1/2 the reason it sucks.

[DoinItForTheFame]

^The fact that it's not going to Dorney or a park that really needs it is 1/2 the reason it sucks.

 

 

Heaven forbid Cedar Point get a new coaster when a different park might "need" a coaster. If that's the case. No park should ever build a new coaster. Ever. Because there might always be another park that needs it more. Then all new coasters would always suck.

 

-----------

 

Seriously. This thread has gotten so out of hand. It's nothing but people complaining... just to complain. There is not one real valid complaint in the past several pages.

 

Ugh, I'm going back to programing Christmas lights now.

[blakelemay23]

Ok, I am currently reading Dick Kinzel's biography right now so i want to share a couple of things.

 

First off, i would like to talk about the opinion some people have that nerdy enthusiasts opinions don't matter and that parks are more worried about how the general public responds to coasters. Actually, nerdy enthusiasts and clubs alike get most of the consideration over the GP--probably because we know what the hell we are talking about.

 

Parks do read forums like this daily, and they take what we say into consideration greatly and it benefits.

 

Heres a quote by Tim O'Brien about Magnum XL-200

 

"Coaster fans' love affair with Dick (Kinzel) began with the appearence of Magnum XL-200 in 1989. They loved-him because he listened to him and was able to give them what they wanted. Journalist Paul Ruben, the North American editor of British-based Park World magazine recalls Dick telling him that he credits members of the American Coaster Enthusiasts (ACE) with the idea to build Magnum. "He saw video clips of Bandit, a 167 foot tall coaster that had just opened in Japan. An ACE member was interviewed and he raved about the ride. He said it had no corkscrews or helixes in it, and it didn't go upside down. It was just a fast, smooth ride--one of the best coasters he had ever ridden."

Dick subsequently asked some North American ACE members if the public would accept a coaster that went high and fast and had a lot of thrills, alot of speed and bumps, alot of camelbacks, but didn't offer any 360 defree loops or other inversions. The ACE members agreed a coaster like that would go over quite well in the U.S. That was all the research Dick needed."

 

I think CP still cherishes this community, and I think that is why we finally saw a floorless conversion of Mantis. I also think fans will het what they want concerning Mean Streak.

 

Second, a funny moment a week before Magnum's opening.

 

"It was a early Saturday morning, April 29, 1989, a week before the Magnum XL-200 was to open and the trains still had not made an entire circuit. Dick walked up to the ride platform just as Toomer was getting ready to release the first train to run a complete out and back. The group watched it run a succesful route and as it came back into the station, Toomer looked at Dick and said, "Okay hop on for the first ride." No sand bags, no second run. It was just Dick and a couple of the maintenance guys with Jack Falfas in the station at the controls.

The ride was fast and as the train went into thr last turn before heading into the station the trim breaks did not work. The ride held to the track, giving everyone a safe but scary ride. Dick was exuberant but later admitted that he had never been as scared on a coaster as he was going into that curve. The ride opened as scheduled the following weekend with less than a week's testing. "That would certaintly not be allowed now." Dick notes. Today, it takes weeks of testing and hundreds of circuits completed before anything other than sandbags can ride."

 

He also said he finally talked his co-workers to ride but told the operator to pause the ride at the top of the hill for ten seconds. When the ride paused he turned around and said "It's time to discuss management's bonus program." "I could only see fear in their eyes, and i remember Veit saying, in his British accent 'Kinzel, you bastard' as tbe train went over the top of the hill. No one ever forgot it"

I will continue to share things as i go.

Edited January 17, 2016 by blakelemay23

[ajfelice]

I wish my home park built coasters so frequently that would feel inclined to criticize them before I ride them. What an abomination that it might not be better than the 16 other coasters in the park, or the rest of the world for that matter.

 

Most people, enthusiasts and general public would give the world to have many of Cedar Point's coasters in a park near them.

 

Next topic:

First off, i would like to talk about the opinion some people have that nerdy enthusiasts opinions don't matter and that parks are more worried about how the general public responds to coasters. Actually, nerdy enthusiasts and clubs alike get most of the consideration over the GP--probably because we know what the hell we are talking about.

 

Parks do read forums like this daily, and they take what we say into consideration greatly and it benefits.

 

You can give enthusiasts credit to some degree for being idea generators. Your Dick Kinzel example is correct, and I would add Holiday World famously did this with The Legend and The Voyage. However, the bigger picture always has and always will be that parks are infinitely most worried how the general public will respond to a roller coaster or any attraction in the park. Thank enthusiasts for their ideas for some roller coaster projects out there, but in the end parks will put the needs of the general public first and foremost with enthusiast opinions being more of a bonus or afterthought.

Edited January 17, 2016 by ajfelice

[DorneyKid14]

That's for sharing that!! That seems like it is a really awesome read!!

[bluestreak]

I pridefully admit I am a Cedar Point fan boy but I am insanely excited for Valravn. It will be an awesome ride that brings the park plenty of visitors. I want other CP fanboys to realize how lucky we are to get the coasters we get no matter how awesome they are or not. While you guys are sitting there complaining about this and that about Valravn, guys over at Dorney or VF are just hoping they get a legit new coaster in the next 10 years.

Take the ride for it is and shut up.

Rant over, carry on.

[neil009]

<-------- not a fanboy or a local

 

Take the ride for it is and shut up.

 

Toe the line, don't voice any negative opinions, love everything every park ever does always, or else be UNGRATEFUL

[RCF]

^^^^ That is what I'm talking about! They are listening to enthusiasts because they know they wouldn't just say the coaster is good and the GP not liking it. The only reason I have seen that not working is when they are too extreme for GP, and some enthusiasts as well, for pain is not pleasure. (Yes, 50 Shades of Grey lied to you.) Now, it just seems that a balance needs to be found between what can be a great coaster without hurting anyone, and something that doesn't just have you say, "Well that was nice."

 

This also brings up a good point. Back then, everything was a lot more chill about testing and making sure they were rideable, so that making unique rides weren't as much of a hassle. Nowadays, with any new concept of a ride, one thing happens to be "off" and that causes for an entire rebuild of that part, and an extra three weeks of testing. Yes, that is exaggerated for point to be made.

 

It's definitely obnoxious for guests wanting to ride, but maybe people should expect it more often, or parks plan for it in the construction phase. It's happening so often now, (even outside of Intamin,) you think parks would have maybe caught on and plan accordingly in construction, maybe erect the entire coaster earlier, or give the engineers enough time to work everything out and make sure it all can work properly before manufacturing.

 

S&S had a good idea when they built a prototype for their Free Spin coasters to make sure they would work properly. I haven't heard of any mechanical issues with Batman: The Ride at SFFT so far. Maybe other manufacturers should be doing that more often?

 

And I find it odd how multiple people say I'm a fanboy complaining when in fact I'm not which I pointed out before. I shall say it again, I find Cedar Point over-hyped. It's still a great park, but it's not on this pedestal that the Golden Ticket Awards built for it.

Edited January 17, 2016 by RCF

[chickenbowl]

It's happening so often now, (even outside of Intamin,) you think parks would have maybe caught on and plan accordingly in construction, maybe erect the entire coaster earlier, or give the engineers enough time to work everything out and make sure it all can work properly before manufacturing.

 

S&S had a good idea when they built a prototype for their Free Spin coasters to make sure they would work properly. I haven't heard of any mechanical issues with Batman: The Ride at SFFT so far. Maybe other manufacturers should be doing that more often?

 

I'm still trying to gather what this whole post is trying to say, but with regards to this section specifically, I think it's funny. Both El Loco at Adventuredome and Batman at SFFT broke down multiple times during the days I was there. Also you talk about how rides are hurting people... I found Batman to have the most uncomfortable coaster restraints and trains I've ever ridden.

[CP Maverick]

I'd get in on this, but the last 3 pages have had more direction changes than Thunderhead and Maverick combined.