Valleyfair (VF) Discussion Thread

[PhantomPoster32]

^it's refreshing to see a level headed VF enthusiast that is in touch with reality. I too feel that this will happen and have for awhile now

[FKA 'Playa]

I'd rather they built a B&M Wing coaster BUT it's still a CF park. They're not going to build me an X-Flight. They're gonna build a Thorpe Park Swarm instead. Without the kick-ass theming. And that's only gonna make me mad.

 

If you ask me, SLCs have more forceful elements than anything short of Raptor's first half, among CF's 'great ideas'. And while T2 was a square-wheeled beating, the others I've boarded weren't painful (MiA's Thunderhawk--both before and after SFWOA, Elitch Gardens Mind Eraser, Blackpool's Infusion and of course CW's model). Some may have degraded over time for all I know. But well-maintained SLCs seem to hold up.

 

Now if they purchased a B&M from another (translation: Non Cedar Fair) park...? All bets are off. But otherwise? Nah. There's better things to do with the money. They could even steal a page from Premier's old playbook and add Two Looping Coasters at once--as long as the second is NOT CW's horrid Zamperla flying coaster. The GP would eat it up. It could even be a Boomerang or Arrow El Loco.

[BuffaloWingRider]

I personally have not ridden an SLC but from what I have heard they are worse than arrow loopers. With this new opinion I will have to ride one to see what I think, but I still feel that any boring B&M is better than the best vekoma.

[VF15]

I can't see Cedar Fair relocating a 21-year-old SLC, this isn't Six Flags. That said, I've pretty much given up any hopes of a B&M (or any new coaster in general) at Valleyfair for now, mainly because all of Cedar Fair's recent new coasters have been going to either Cedar Point or the former Paramount Parks (the last non-CP/PP coaster was Prowler at WOF in 2009). If we did get a new coaster soon, that would be great, but I'm not counting on it.

[RCF]

I can't see Cedar Fair relocating a 21-year-old SLC, this isn't Six Flags.

Thunderhawk says hi!

 

That said, I've pretty much given up any hopes of a B&M (or any new coaster in general) at Valleyfair for now, mainly because all of Cedar Fair's recent new coasters have been going to either Cedar Point or the former Paramount Parks (the last non-CP/PP coaster was Prowler at WOF in 2009). If we did get a new coaster soon, that would be great, but I'm not counting on it.

 

I would agree, but I believe the big coaster will be coming in at least three or four more years. If you take what they said a few years ago about the three parks to put in capitol investments, Valleyfair would be next once CGA has their fun. Carowinds got Fury 325, major waterpark expansions, and next year a collection of great flat rides. They just announced how they have a major plan for CGA which would take a few years to accomplish with their own water park expansion and whatever else they will get. Valleyfair already got an amazing overhaul of their waterpark, so it might be another few years, but I see them getting a collection of flats in 2018 while CGA gets whatever they get in the next two years, and by that point some kind of major coaster be right around the corner for either park, whoever "claims" it first.

 

I see the only reason many of the paramount parks get the big coasters lately is because of the purchase that was only about ten years ago. CF knew they couldn't let them sit while they looked at their other parks that they have branded for themselves so well at the time. When you make a purchase of five amusement parks, you will expect to put in major additions to show you knew what you were doing and the huge rise in profits spoke for itself to create well rounded parks. At this point, the only park that hasn't been looked at seriously is CGA, with KD getting I305, Carowinds get Intimidator and Fury, CW get Behemoth and Leviathan, and King's Island getting Diamondback and Banshee. After that, I see them looking back at their older parks starting with Valleyfair. Then go towards WOF, Dorney, and (in another 20 years once they go back to the paramount parks, Knott's, and Cedar Point,) MA. The only reason I wouldn't see this happen is if CF bought another park from somewhere. Basically, the PP's got "borrowed" money to create the parks they had the potential to be, and now the rest of the chain I feel will be following suit to get with the times, besides MA. They will get Knott's boomerang before that happens.

 

Wait, was CGA a paramount park or was it under CF before that?

[VF15]

^

Yes, CGA was a former Paramount Park.

 

I can't see Cedar Fair relocating a 21-year-old SLC, this isn't Six Flags.

Thunderhawk says hi!

Thunderhawk was only nine years old at the time of its relocation, makes more sense to have done it then. Even if they gave it new trains, I don't think it would be worth relocating Flight Deck at this point in its lifespan, especially considering its reputation of being one of the roughest SLCs.

[Lightning Rod]

Have the they started season pass processing yet? I'm planning to stop by and renew my pass.

[FKA 'Playa]

Thunderhawk was only nine years old at the time of its relocation, makes more sense to have done it then.

 

Thunderhawk's only three years younger than Flight Deck. I could be wrong, but their SFWOA's former Boomerang? Might be the same age. Guess what they did to it before moving it to Carowinds? Yup. New train.

 

 

Even if they gave it new trains, I don't think it would be worth relocating Flight Deck at this point in its lifespan, especially considering its reputation of being one of the roughest SLCs.

 

Perhaps the more pertinent questions to ask: How many SLCs have you boarded? And what makes them headbangers?

 

I'll admit I haven't been on Flight Deck in quite some time. But KK's T2 was--to put it mildly--Hot GARBAGE. The new trains improved them quite a bit, from what I've heard on this forum and elsewhere.

 

Nevertheless, I'm surprised to hear people complain about CW's Flight Deck with a friggin' Volare (ETA: Oh right, they call it 'Time Warp') standing right next to it. If that thing wouldn't put 'roughness' in perspective, what will? To say nothing of Minebuster. Ow, ow. Mommy.

[valleyfairfanatic]

To clarify: I know what you mean, but when someone says "valleyfair's new invert" it sounds like we already are getting one, so that would cause confusion and probably some annoyance to other posters. I'm sorry, I just have a problem with saying stuff like its set in stone, when really we just got flyers for our 40th anniversary. Not to be pessimistic but a B&M ain't coming any time soon.

[CaptainUnknown]

Oh let's be honest for a second. If CA's SLC was relocated, it'd go to Dorney.

[BuffaloWingRider]

^That's funny, but it would be a way better fit at VF. I agree with VF15 that relocating a 21 year old SLC won't happen. RFC and VF15's posts really changed my outlook on Cedar Fair. I wonder if the non paramount parks will be brought up to new levels.

[millertpr]

Cedar Fair never seriously improved Valleyfair, Wof or Dorney before the Paramount Parks addition, so maybe they have decided that they won't seriously improve them. I struggle to see Cedar Fair improving Kings Islamd personally -- an already good park in an incredibly tough market. But Canadas Wonderland, Carowinds, and CGA will all be improved (or already have).

[FKA 'Playa]

Cedar Fair never seriously improved Valleyfair, Wof or Dorney before the Paramount Parks addition, so maybe they have decided that they won't seriously improve them.

 

On what actual facts does this statement float?

 

Call me crazy, but a hyper and a couple B&Ms since CF bought Dorney = improvement. A hyper and a B&M for WoF = improvement.

And Valleyfair's slated for improvement because the CEO himself said so. Publicly. Before all the unitholders. Go check the Q3 conference call.

 

I struggle to see Cedar Fair improving Kings Islamd personally

 

There mighta been a couple B&Ms propped up at KI, too--but that would belabor the point.

[millertpr]

I know about Diamondback, Banshee, and whatever could potentially come next year, but I don't know why even next year, this park would receive another coaster! It is extremely close to Cedar Point and also not far away from Louisville --> Kentucky Kingdom and Holiday World. There are other parks to invest in.

 

When talking about Worlds of Fun and Dorneys coasters, they were pretty small in size --> Talon and Patriot are consistently marked as some of the worst or more basic B&M coasters. Even with the GCIs, Gold Striker is much bigger and better than a Prowler (or even Renegade). It is confusing to see the future for Cedar Fair parks, if big market parks keep getting coasters when they don't need them. When I worked for Cedar Fair before the Paramount acquisition, Cedar Point would improve its numbers a lot every year, even if 3 coasters went in, in a row. With the new parks, today, Kings Island isn't improving its numbers as much as a Carowinds or Cedar Point did, which makes me wonder why they are being invested in if Cedar Fair can get better value for its money elsewhere.

 

I rated a list of parks needing coasters below...

 

1) Canada's Wonderland

- In a very big market, could draw in up to 10% more from an addition of a big coaster. At a park with an AWFUL looping coaster collection.

2) Valleyfair

One of longest coaster droughts in company; in a very profitable market and one of Cedar Fair's expansion parks.

3) Kings Dominion

Been a while -- nice park though. Likely a 2018 small coaster coming

4) Knotts

Been a long time, but the market won't improve and tourists don't visit it which makes it hard to add great things.

5) Worlds of Fun

Kansas City market is an OK place and this park needs a coaster, but Schlitterbahn has taken potential customers away...

6) Dorney Park

Extremely hard market in Philly: more of a waterpark park than a rides park

7) CGA

Expansion? I don't know - Discovery Kingsom is another good park, and Gold Striker was just installed in 2013, but a hyper coaster would be nice...

8) Kings Island

Just read what I said previously

9) Other Parks

[WolfBobs]

I know about Diamondback, Banshee, and whatever could potentially come next year, but I don't know why even next year, this park would receive another coaster! It is extremely close to Cedar Point and also not far away from Louisville --> Kentucky Kingdom and Holiday World. There are other parks to invest in.

 

Canada's Wonderland, Cedar Point, Kings Island are the 3 highest attended seasonal parks in the chain. Each topping 3 million guests annually. THAT'S why they continue to get the larger coasters at a more frequent pace then other parks in the chain. With investment dollars then going to Knotts (highest attended but year round and severely hamstrung with land) and Carowinds. Why does this still befuddle people so much? The parks that can give a quicker ROI will merit attractions at a more frequent pace then others. Valleyfair, WoF, Dorney, MiA will all get their new coasters... eventually, when the chain feels it's time.

[BuffaloWingRider]

Cedar Fair never seriously improved Valleyfair, Wof or Dorney before the Paramount Parks addition, so maybe they have decided that they won't seriously improve them.

Well speaking for VF from 1996-2007 the park was showered with thrill rides and coasters which include: Wild Thing -very great addition at the time, Rip Cord - a great up charge attraction for any park to have, Mad Mouse - still a coaster, Power Tower - good drop tower with admirable height, Steel Venom - decent launch coaster, Xtreme Swing - amazing thrill ride, Renegade - One of the best GCIs out there. And CF bought the paramount parks in 2006. It makes sense to me.

[dippindotsguy8]

Cedar Fair never seriously improved Valleyfair, Wof or Dorney before the Paramount Parks addition, so maybe they have decided that they won't seriously improve them.

Well speaking for VF from 1996-2007 the park was showered with thrill rides and coasters which include: Wild Thing -very great addition at the time, Rip Cord - a great up charge attraction for any park to have, Mad Mouse - still a coaster, Power Tower - good drop tower with admirable height, Steel Venom - decent launch coaster, Xtreme Swing - amazing thrill ride, Renegade - One of the best GCIs out there. And CF bought the paramount parks in 2006. It makes sense to me.

 

As a former passholder I remember the glorious run of years from 2003-2007....

Steel Venom

Kidworks

Skyscraper, Riptide

Extreme Swing, Halloween Haunt

Renegade

 

For a few years you were able to just assume good news would be coming in September. Even if you didn't love what they were putting in, there was routine investment.

[cake-is-life]

but I don't know why even next year, this park would receive another coaster! It is extremely close to Cedar Point and also not far away from Louisville --> Kentucky Kingdom and Holiday World. There are other parks to invest in.

 

I'm going to disagree about the proximity. When I visited CP last year, it was a 12+ hour car ride, usually being very "efficient" with the speed. That's not close. I can't say anything about Kentucky but the point remains that there is a market here in the Twin Cities for VF to expand into, as demonstrated by the improvements to the MOA park.

 

The only indication I think we'll see of an imminent coaster is the parking lot/toll booths being redone.

[PhantomPoster32]

Cedar Fair never seriously improved Valleyfair, Wof or Dorney before the Paramount Parks addition, so maybe they have decided that they won't seriously improve them. I struggle to see Cedar Fair improving Kings Islamd personally -- an already good park in an incredibly tough market. But Canadas Wonderland, Carowinds, and CGA will all be improved (or already have).

 

Worlds of Fun since Cedar Fair buyout of Hunt Midwest

1996 - RipCord & Detonator

1997 - Berenstein Bear Country & Summer Lights Laser Show

1998 - MAMBA

1999 - Grand Prix Raceway & Hurricane Falls

2000 - Boomerang

2001 - Camp Snoopy

2002 - Thunderhawk

2003 - Paradise Falls

2004 - Spinning Dragons

2005 - Worlds of Fun Village & Peanuts Playhouse

2006 - PATRIOT

2007 - Haunt Expansion

2008 - Haunt Expansion

2009 - PROWLER

2010 - Hot Summer Lights & Haunt Expansion

2011 - Planet Snoopy, Grand Carousel & Haunt Expansion

2012 - Haunt Expansion

2013 - Shark's Revenge, Predator's Plunge & Constrictor

2014 - SteelHawk

2015 - Splash Island & Haunt Expansion

2016 - Planet Snoopy Expansion

[BuffaloWingRider]

but I don't know why even next year, this park would receive another coaster! It is extremely close to Cedar Point and also not far away from Louisville --> Kentucky Kingdom and Holiday World. There are other parks to invest in.

 

I'm going to disagree about the proximity. When I visited CP last year, it was a 12+ hour car ride, usually being very "efficient" with the speed. That's not close. I can't say anything about Kentucky but the point remains that there is a market here in the Twin Cities for VF to expand into, as demonstrated by the improvements to the MOA park.

 

The only indication I think we'll see of an imminent coaster is the parking lot/toll booths being redone.

I think he was talking about Kings Island.

[FKA 'Playa]

 

Worlds of Fun since Cedar Fair buyout of Hunt Midwest

1996 - RipCord & Detonator

1997 - Berenstein Bear Country & Summer Lights Laser Show

1998 - MAMBA

1999 - Grand Prix Raceway & Hurricane Falls

2000 - Boomerang

2001 - Camp Snoopy

2002 - Thunderhawk

2003 - Paradise Falls

2004 - Spinning Dragons

2005 - Worlds of Fun Village & Peanuts Playhouse

2006 - PATRIOT

 

LOLOLOL but see, those aren't improvements! 'Improvements' aren't actually additions to him--only what he subjectively believes to be an improvement. Which can be anything or nothing. Leave him floating in his Opinion Bubble! You've done all you could.

[cake-is-life]

but I don't know why even next year, this park would receive another coaster! It is extremely close to Cedar Point and also not far away from Louisville --> Kentucky Kingdom and Holiday World. There are other parks to invest in.

 

I'm going to disagree about the proximity. When I visited CP last year, it was a 12+ hour car ride, usually being very "efficient" with the speed. That's not close. I can't say anything about Kentucky but the point remains that there is a market here in the Twin Cities for VF to expand into, as demonstrated by the improvements to the MOA park.

 

The only indication I think we'll see of an imminent coaster is the parking lot/toll booths being redone.

I think he was talking about Kings Island.

 

Eh, it was a thick chunk of text. Plus because this is the VF thread so my mind assumed that that's what the comment was about

[BuffaloWingRider]

It's fine no problem.

[cake-is-life]

Rides leadership has a great weekend back in the park. We started hands-on training out at the rides, which is always fun. The Eagles are all strung up, but it looks like panel work continues. Ferris wheel also seems to be getting new light patterns (It was hard to tell in the lighting). Nothing on the scale of CP but us Ops will enjoy the change in the night's scenery.

 

I laugh at Wild Thing, though. Nothing's changed but apparently they had a fun afternoon with it.

[BuffaloWingRider]

Good to hear, thanks for sharing! I am excited about the park starting up again.