The Six Flags Magic Mountain (SFMM) Discussion Thread

[robbalvey]

^^I think if anyone wants the park to succeed, it's me. Seriously....

That thought does NOT come across in your posts.

 

I don't think I'm taking anything personally at all. Just telling you how I interpret your posts. I just don't understand how you can say you don't have confidence when you look around the park and you can point to improvments and potential improvements everywhere.

 

They are going to get everything right, and I personally don't expect them to. But I see the park improving. And almost every visit shows a little bit of improvement over the last.

 

--Robb

[trcg721]

I have to Robb. It does seem that you try to find all the negatives and never the positives in your post. Things never goes as plan, also don't blame everything on SF. Not everything is SF fault.

[Rideslover]

Hi, Question about the railroad track is place to under construction? did you see the railroad track? or station? or the roundabout building?

 

-Larry

[Jew]

I'll be the first to give them a round of applause on opening day if everything goes as planned, but until I'm there standing on the station platform actually seeing it with my eyes, I think I have every right to be a skeptic, without "wanting the park to fail."

 

My question is this: what is there to be skeptical about with X2 at this point? They never said 3 trains at opening. They also made it clear at WCB that the tunnel and other ideas were not finalized. If you want to cite the press release, fine...but really, have you ever seen concept art/press BS descriptions EVER be 100% correct?

 

So I think you are grasping at straws. If you want to call them out for problems after the ride opens, that would be fair criticism. But for now I don't see how you can possibly complain...

[downunder]

Maybe they can make all our dreams come true and Percy The Small Engine (formerly Goliath Junior) will be available to be ridden by all us credit whores, pigs will fly backwards first, but I have a dream.

 

My last visit in August 2007 was a big improvement and being able to finally get up the Sky tower after ten visits over the years was great.

[iamscottevil]

Like alan greenspan would say, i'm cautiously optimistic. There is so much to work on and so much going for the park anyway, it's hard to not be excited and at the same time fearful that it'll turn into another premiere parks debacle. I have faith because this new guy seems to really want to get it working, although turning around an aircraft carrier of a park takes some planning and time.

 

It's all there though, they just are REALLY tight lipped about it. The employees i've asked told me there are secret plans that while aren't massive they promise they're doing something about X. And nobody ever told me 3 trains, my impression was 2 and the third would come later, but maybe. It would be a treat. Just to fix the broken lift lights would show some pizazz.

 

In the next 5 years what are the chances of new Rev trains? They beat my head so much with the OTSR and it could be much better designed. There's gotta be a marketing angle they can use.

 

Plus the 2009 coaster better be something special or unique. Another "parking lot express" lovely as scream is or another damned wild mouse/tony hawk/timberline twister like everyone and their mom puts in and everyone forgets about will piss me off to no end. Please whoever's designing it kick our asses with something my 8 year old sister will just barely agree to ride and then love it, while still making it worth my and my brother's time. It's a tall order but dammit this is MAGIC MOUNTAIN, and it needs to be the coaster capital again.

[FeelTheFORCE]

They also made it clear at WCB that the tunnel and other ideas were not finalized. If you want to cite the press release, fine...but really, have you ever seen concept art/press BS descriptions EVER be 100% correct?

 

Great points. To throw out an example, look at the concept drawings and animations of Maverick. In reality, it doesn't have nearly half the scenery and whatnot that were in the concepts, and I doubt it ever will.

 

But I have really positive feeling towards this park. I really want to get back there eventually (hopefully either next summer or the summer after). I am really impressed with the improvements they have made.

[Revolucion]

Like alan greenspan would say, i'm cautiously optimistic. There is so much to work on and so much going for the park anyway, it's hard to not be excited and at the same time fearful that it'll turn into another premiere parks debacle. I have faith because this new guy seems to really want to get it working, although turning around an aircraft carrier of a park takes some planning and time.

 

It's all there though, they just are REALLY tight lipped about it. The employees i've asked told me there are secret plans that while aren't massive they promise they're doing something about X. And nobody ever told me 3 trains, my impression was 2 and the third would come later, but maybe. It would be a treat. Just to fix the broken lift lights would show some pizazz.

 

In the next 5 years what are the chances of new Rev trains? They beat my head so much with the OTSR and it could be much better designed. There's gotta be a marketing angle they can use.

 

Plus the 2009 coaster better be something special or unique. Another "parking lot express" lovely as scream is or another damned wild mouse/tony hawk/timberline twister like everyone and their mom puts in and everyone forgets about will piss me off to no end. Please whoever's designing it kick our asses with something my 8 year old sister will just barely agree to ride and then love it, while still making it worth my and my brother's time. It's a tall order but dammit this is MAGIC MOUNTAIN, and it needs to be the coaster capital again.

 

I would much rather see them fix some of the coasters they already have. Revolution is a fantastic coaster with horrible restraints that give me a headache if I ride it. I would think that the restraints could be fixed for under a few hundred thousand dollars. The marketing angle is this: Management does not realize the number of people whose day is made far less enjoyable because they have a headache from riding Viper and Revolution. One of the reasons I haven't made it a point to go to MM for five years is that the last few times I went I had a headache that sort of ruined the rest of my day. For a cost of less than $0.10 or so per rider the park would add $0.50 of value. The design could also probably be modified to use on other coasters at other Six Flags parks.

 

My *wife* cares about the *atmosphere* (cleanliness, gang bangers, etc.) *I* want rides to enjoy with my children; Ninja, Gold Rusher, Buccaneer are all rides that add to the family experience and take nothing away. Those rides are all "Family Friendly". The rationale for removing Psyclone was right on the money--Psyclone took away more from the general guest experience than it added and was a drain on resources in operational costs.

 

I think removing the Sierra Twist was a mistake. It didn't have a high capacity, but it could be operated with one employee and was a good simple family ride. Unless it was extremely expensive to maintain I don't see the point of removing it. I would change my mind if I found out that labor and maintenance cost $5 per rider, but l doubt it was over $1.

 

The canoes at Disneyland probably cost about $2 per rider to operate after factoring in the labor, maintenance, and indirect costs. But they have great intangible value: the visual excitement of seeing the Rivers of America bustling with activity, the slight increase in guest experience for Mark Twain riders when a canoe passes them, and the interactive element for the rider. The low capacity of a few hundred people also offsets the high cost per rider.

 

The park would achieve more goals by building coasters with wide appeal. Adding an extreme coaster more than once every three or four years doesn't make sense if the park wants to bring in more families.

[Revolucion]

^^Not at all Robb, you're making too much of it. Not only that you're taking it a little too personally as well...

 

I think if anyone wants the park to succeed, it's me. Seriously. I've stood up for the park since it was a sh*thole in the mid 90's, even when it was embarrassing and everyone else was talking about Cedar Fair. If anyones a SF fanboy, its me.

 

I'm just skeptical and I don't believe them anymore. I understand you have confidence in the park because of the improvements that are going on in the past 7 months, and I do too, but I'm not going to get excited for something that's not going to be there at the end of May.

 

I'll be the first to give them a round of applause on opening day if everything goes as planned, but until I'm there standing on the station platform actually seeing it with my eyes, I think I have every right to be a skeptic, without "wanting the park to fail."

 

Because that's just stupid.

 

I have to agree with Robb's perception. Speaking as a general guest who went to SFMM for the first time in five years for WCB, the management has earned credibility with the tangible changes they have successfully made. It's clearly not lip service.

 

I worked at Disneyland in college and was *extremely impressed* at the changes I saw at WCB from my last visit in 2003. I hope Mark Shapiro continues to support the renewal of Magic Mountain. Disneyland went through a similar renewal after Eisner, Pressler, and Harriss were replaced by Iger and Ouimet.

 

The $6M that was sunk into the new trains speaks for itself. I think the park's general success does not hinge on whether or not three trains are running when X2 opens.

[MrSkyWhirl]

^^Not at all Robb, you're making too much of it. Not only that you're taking it a little too personally as well...

 

I have to comment on this. I've been perusing this forum for at least a couple of years now, mostly because I enjoy the Photo Trip Reports posted. Only posted a couple of times, and that was about a radio show.

 

I do not know anyone here, have no allegiance to any group or person, will never attend a coaster event, and have to say I have been "this" close to posting about your "input" here. You ABSOLUTELY come across the way that Rob ranted about. Seeing your avatar at the start of a post is a quick, and also very annoying, heads up to keep on scrolling. I could elaborate on how you come across, but Rob pretty much nailed it on the head. If I were a moderator/admin here I would have probably been tempted to suspend or ban you because your only contributions are to:

 

A) Piss on Magic Mountain and any improvement someone might point out.

B) Remind everyone that you worked there.

 

Again, pretty unbiased viewpoint here - you come across as a colossal prick in the majority of posts I've read. If that's not your intention, you need to work on your typing/conversational skills.

 

As far as Magic Mountain, I get out there about once every few years and am very excited to make it back. Going to be odd not to stare at Flashback (or Z-Force as I still called it), not see Psyclone, and actually have a reason to head up the tower.

 

Thanks everyone, except for you PURE, for your input/photos from the park!

[ebl]

When I talked to Jay and Neal last week, Jay asked me how I thought the park looked. He knows that I've been there several times a year---every year---since 1971. I told him that I hadn't seen the park looking that nice in quite some time. And that wasn't a kiss-up, either. It's the honest truth.

 

I'm perfectly willing to let things happen when they happen. If it's a bit later than expected, so what? It'll be worth the wait.

 

One thing that does annoy me is when people are talking to Jay or Neal, and they say, "You know what you guys should do/put in...?" To me, that's just so...amateurish. Park management already knows what they're doing three years from now. But they aren't going to tell.

 

Just to give you an indication as to what I think of the "new and improved SFMM," I've been there five times already this year---more than the last two years combined. And the year is young...

 

Eric

[Ccron10]

^I kinda agree. It's very inmature for someone to say this to the park management. To me it makes us coaster enthusiests look too obsessed on what's coming soon to the park, instead of how good or bad it's being run.

 

I'd rather go to an excellently run park that hasn't added a new coaster or ride for a few years than one that's in very poor condition and gets one or two new rides year after year.

[bflag]

Iam 25 years old and I've been visiting SFMM since I was 8 years old. I cant agree more with Robb's post about negative attiudes toward SFMM.

 

I read some of these post and I get so angry when I hear people put down my favorite park... especially the people who haven't even been there and just go by word of mouth. We can all agree that mistakes were made in the past and sum here in the present but if you love the park like I do you will support the efforts to bring SFMM up to "mainstream standards" cause what it boils down to is the park isn't good enough for the mainstream but if you ask the majority of SoCal residents they will have little to no problem visiting SFMM. The park has been good to me and the 10-15 people that go with me and my family EVERY year. All that time and and I've never heard neg. comments like I do when I come on here. I hate to quote Robb so I wont but a wise man once said "we cant hold every theme park to DISNEY standards"

[ebl]

^ Remember that while Disney parks tend to be run very well, they do have their flaws, too.

 

Eric

[upfrontjwash]

Your right Eric, every single park has errors, and nothings wrong with that.

[CoasterComet]

^I love the park (even thought I haven't been there since 1999) and the REAL issue, in my mind, would be lack of family rides. Despite what Snyder says, I think having a Tilt-a-whirl is important. We're so lucky here at Great America to have a troika, calypso, scrambler, train ride, carousel, etc... AND great coasters too.

 

And the whole Revolution thing... I DO believe some day the ride will run w/o shoulder bars and reclaim glory as one of the funnest steel coasters out there. I know they said NO, but I am optimistic.

 

Do they ever run 6 trains on Colossus?

[CaliCoastin]

Revolution will not run without shoulder restraints, they need to the ride to be insured and if thats what the company wants them to do thats what they will do. Its not MM's fault that insurance people/lawyers believe its necessary, and it will not change.

[TheBannedKid]

While I believe Revolution will always run in its current castrated state, I see no reason why it won't be improved upon over the years. Better restraints are a start...

[RIP Psyclone]

^True, and that's a shame. It was a little disappointing to hear at WCB that there are no plans to renovate or rehab Revolution or Colossus. Such...a waste! I agree there are more important things at the Mountain, though, and so far the money has been going to all the right places.

[iamscottevil]

Yeah, colossus is the centerpiece of the park. It's the first thing people marvel at when they get out of their car, and to see it so shabby and unpainted is just embarrassing. But again, from the corporate level it's all about what will have greatest ROI, not what will improve their image on the ground.

[vedved82491]

Revolution, for good reason, needs OTSR's, I believe. The current ones definitely need to be replaced...let me explain.

 

I tried to analyze one of my rides one time on Revolution to try and see exactly in which places OTSR's were needed, and a few definitely needed them. I believe right after the loop, your body goes slamming forwards, or wants to, and without those restraints, plenty of people would be having their heads or teeth bashed in.

 

The answer is obvious not to remove the restraint, but improve them. I liked the new Vekoma SLC restraints. By their looks, they don't seem too thick from where the shoulder part comes down. If they incorporate an elastic like restraint as well, much like Tatsu's vest like restraint, it would be very much beneficiary to the ride experience. It's hard to make sense of it writing it out on here, where it's hard to get the right picture in mind, but I know what I'm talking about and I think it's definitely a possibility.

 

Where there's a will, there's a way!

[RIP Psyclone]

^For a roller coaster with the only inversion being a standard loop, OTSRs and lapbars together is excessive. One or the other, but not both!

[ebl]

"I believe right after the loop, your body goes slamming forwards" (vedved82491)

 

Actually, going into the loop puts a sudden downward/forward pull on your body. I've heard tales of people banging their face on the headrest ahead of them, which was a factor in OTSRs for that ride.

 

I rode Revolution in 1976---before headrests even. It was a great ride then, and I hope will be again. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

Eric

[Jew]

^^To be fair, that loop is very forceful for a "standard loop."

 

I think the best we can hope for is more padding on the OTSR's. Wishful thinking would be a redesigned lap bar system to prevent bodies from flying forward.

[nagro5]

I've heard tales of people banging their face on the headrest ahead of them.

Haha, that would be a sight to see! I can hear it now "Ow! My face just got smashed in by the roller coaster!"

 

I also think that they should change the restraints. They should take out the lap bars. It felt really awquard having those bulky OSTRs as well as the lap bar that didn't even touch me. New restraints would be really helpful for the ride.