Six Flags Over Texas (SFOT) Discussion Thread

[Sammy*]

^NO

Went to the park yesterday. As expected the attendance was extremely slow even more so for a Saturday. All lines were especially short considering the park has two of its best coasters closed.

Slow? Not calling you out or anything, But when I arrived around 4 I almost couldn't find a parking spot because it was SO BUSY. Even the news reported last night that "due to the fatal accident Friday it didn't stop THOUSANDS of people from visiting today." To give you and idea of how busy it was, I had to park in the very back right by Rangers Ballpark.

 

I wnt for a late trip to the park I walked through the entry at 8:40 at that time the rangers game was still going on but there was not as many cars in the lot.

[Sportsdude360]

^^^^If that's anything like what happened to Rozy then there's no way she should have been permitted to ride.

Edited July 21, 2013 by Sportsdude360

[Millionaire2K]

Seeing the picture of the lady its starting to seem like a case of "she was to big".

 

I wouldn't be shocked if the lady did ask if her bar was secure enough. Maybe she was on other rides with "clicks" and didn't hear any so she was concerned. Also mix that with a "possible" employee who didn't care or was ignorant about the clicks.

 

No matter the case this should be considered a design problem. The trains on any coaster should not be allowed to dispatch if all the restraints are not secure "enough to be effective". And if the restraint did lock at a far off position and it allowed her to fly out, then that needs to be fixed. Restraint should only lock at levels where it will remain effective at holding a person in. If the person is to large the restraint should not lock and the train should not be permitted to dispatch. Intiman seems to have gotten this figured out after their accidents.

 

Adding seatbelts to attach to the restraint to ensure they are low enough makes the most sense.

 

Also if the seats were smaller (like El Toro) it would also help.

[TyRush]

Its a hydraulic restraint, it locks at any position once the operator does the "lap bars locked"

So if it was at 90,10,50 degrees, the bar would lock for the ride.

 

I thibk its a case of her just slipping out after watching the Superman video.

[TexasThrillSeekers]

I wnt for a late trip to the park I walked through the entry at 8:40 at that time the rangers game was still going on but there was not as many cars in the lot.

Well yeah, I'm sure it was slow around that time. Right after I arrived around 4 it starting raining hard, which cleared a large portion of the crowd out. It took me 30 min. just to get out of the parking lot around 6 cause lots of folks were leaving. Also, I have confirmed from sources that yesterday was a "normal" Saturday crowd for SFOT.

[Millionaire2K]

Its a hydraulic restraint, it locks at any position once the operator does the "lap bars locked"

So if it was at 90,10,50 degrees, the bar would lock for the ride.

 

I thibk its a case of her just slipping out after watching the Superman video.

 

 

This is my point. The restraint was most likely locked to high to be able to keep her in. And it is a judgment call weather a person is secure. The system should not allow the trains to dispatch if they are not low enough. I'm pretty sure most of Intiman's new rides also use the hydraulic type restraints and they have a system in please to know if the restraint is low enough to be effective.

 

Like Manta At Sea World SD or El Toro at SFGADV.

 

When it comes to safety and peoples lives the system needs to be failsafe. There needs to be a way for the train to "reject" the body if the restraint will not be effective.

[deathbydinn]

Its a hydraulic restraint, it locks at any position once the operator does the "lap bars locked"

So if it was at 90,10,50 degrees, the bar would lock for the ride.

 

That's simply not true. The lap bars have to be down to a certain position before the train can be dispatched. I saw a woman not be able to ride because she couldn't get her lap bar down far enough, if it could be locked at any position like you claim, then that wouldn't have happened. There are also the lights on the train that only light up when the restraints are down far enough. They can not just run the ride with lap bars in any position.

[BrandonR]

It has been mentioned several times that the trains use indicator lights when the restraints are down far enough. I'm not sure the system prevents the train from being dispatched if the lights aren't on, though, or if it's just for the operators checking restraints' benefit.

 

I suppose it could be possible the restraint was down far enough but the lady's body type prevented her from being secured somehow?

[Millionaire2K]

I suppose it could be possible the restraint was down far enough but the lady's body type prevented her from being secured somehow?

 

At this point I'm sure anything is possible.

[TexasThrillSeekers]

It has been mentioned several times that the trains use indicator lights when the restraints are down far enough. I'm not sure the system prevents the train from being dispatched if the lights aren't on, though, or if it's just for the operators checking restraints' benefit.

 

I suppose it could be possible the restraint was down far enough but the lady's body type prevented her from being secured somehow?

 

 

[TyRush]

Its a hydraulic restraint, it locks at any position once the operator does the "lap bars locked"

So if it was at 90,10,50 degrees, the bar would lock for the ride.

 

That's simply not true. The lap bars have to be down to a certain position before the train can be dispatched. I saw a woman not be able to ride because she couldn't get her lap bar down far enough, if it could be locked at any position like you claim, then that wouldn't have happened. There are also the lights on the train that only light up when the restraints are down far enough. They can not just run the ride with lap bars in any position.

Well yes i know that if its not at a certain level it usually doesnt go, and for the ride the bars wont be up in the air obviously, i was just stating the bars can lock at any position. Once they get locked with the hydraulic systems you can push them down further but not upwards. So if the bar was low enough for dispatch the only way out was to slip out

[thrillrider]

Just had a report on ABC world news. They showed some footage courtesy of themeparkreview.com.

 

This is a horrible accident, and my heart goes out to the family. I can't stand all the speculation going on all over the internet. Let's let the investigation be compleated before we start pointing fingers.

[Fire2box]

Just had a report on ABC world news. They showed some footage courtesy of themeparkreview.com.

 

This is a horrible accident, and my heart goes out to the family. I can't stand all the speculation going on all over the internet. Let's let the investigation be compleated before we start pointing fingers.

 

is this the video? they show like a 1-2 second clip from a TPR source.

[chadster]

I'm resisting driving over there to take photos of the media circus that's going on.

[Tmcdllr]

I still like this quote from the article....

 

But a representative of the manufacturer said there would be no clicking sound in the hydraulically operated mechanism.

 

Thank you finally!

 

Now if only that Carmen Brown would just go away....

[SharkTums]

^^Technically if you drive over to take pictures of the Media Circus...you ARE the Media Circus!!!

[chadster]

^Good point. I'm staying away.

[singemfrc]

So refreshing to see an article about this that isn't filled with rumor, misinformation, and crap!

I know it's a few pages back by now but yes completely. Not only just compared to articles about this incident, but journalism in general nowadays. I'm going to write the authors of that article and thank them for how well done it was. It is refreshing to know that there is still a main stream newspaper out there that takes the time to do things the right way and is not just trying to get the scoop as quickly as possible no matter the cost.

[robbalvey]

So refreshing to see an article about this that isn't filled with rumor, misinformation, and crap!

I know it's a few pages back by now but yes completely. Not only just compared to articles about this incident, but journalism in general nowadays. I'm going to write the authors of that article and thank them for how well done it was. It is refreshing to know that there is still a main stream newspaper out there that takes the time to do things the right way and is not just trying to get the scoop as quickly as possible no matter the cost.

Going to post it again because it really was a pretty good article...

 

Here's an interesting article...

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/metro/20130720-independent-probe-of-death-on-six-flags-texas-giant-coaster-unlikely.ece

 

The public is no closer to knowing what caused a Dallas mother’s fatal fall from the Texas Giant roller coaster Friday night in Arlington. When answers do arrive, they will almost certainly come from Six Flags Over Texas via its legal and public relations team rather than an independent investigator.

 

Both the Arlington police and fire departments were called to the scene. But neither is expected to conduct long, intensive investigations because Rosy Esparza’s death was believed to be an accident.

 

The state regulator is on the case, but the Texas Department of Insurance’s primary duty is ensuring the rides have insurance and are inspected. That’s not an issue in this case.

 

Six Flags officials initially said they were “working with authorities” to determine the cause of the fatality. Later, they acknowledged that this is an internal investigation into only the second customer to die on a ride since the park opened in 1961.

 

Kenneth Martin, a roller coaster inspector and accident investigator often hired by lawyers and manufacturers, said there is no Texas agency responsible for accident investigations. And police tend to not pursue deaths and serious injuries without evidence of a crime.

 

“In all likelihood do you think Six Flags is going to come out and say ‘we screwed up,’” he said. “Probably not.”

 

He said the lack of governmental oversight may mean the factors contributing to the woman’s death remain unknown.

 

Those determining the cause will likely be Six Flags staff, its insurance company, an inspector hired by the park or insurance company, and the German firm that manufactured the cars. With a lawsuit against Six Flags likely, it’s not certain how much information will be made public soon.

 

In a written statement, a Six Flags spokeswoman said that it was too early to comment in detail on the cause.

 

“We are committed to determining the cause of this tragic accident and will utilize every resource throughout this process,” wrote Sharon Parker, a park spokeswoman. “It would be a disservice to the family to speculate regarding what transpired. When we have new information to provide, we will do so. Our thoughts, prayers and full support remain with the family.”

 

Several of Esparza’s family members declined to comment. At least one family member said they had hired an attorney.

 

Ride closed

 

Arlington police responded to a 911 call at the park about 6:30 p.m. Officers helped “gather preliminary details, interview witnesses and rule out foul play,” said Sgt. Christopher Cook, a department spokesman.

 

He said a report on their death investigation would not be available earlier than Monday. There is no criminal investigation.

 

Parker said the ride would remain closed until Six Flags’ internal investigation is complete.

 

Jerry Hagins, state Department of Insurance spokesman, said the ride can’t legally reopen until it is re-inspected and proof of that is provided to the state.

 

Witnesses reported that Esparza fell from one of the roller coaster’s cars as it rounded a turn Friday evening.

 

One witness, Carmen Brown of Arlington, said Esparza was concerned that her safety restraint was not properly secured. Brown said a Six Flags worker assured the victim that she was fine.

 

“She was nervous and panicking,” Brown said.

 

The witness. however. mentioned concerns about the number of times the safety bar clicked when it was lowered. But a representative of the manufacturer said there would be no clicking sound in the hydraulically operated mechanism.

 

“We have to investigate what has happened there,” said Tobias Lindnar, project manager for Gerstlauer Amusement Rides. “I’m sure there’s no safety bar that is broken.”

 

He said the 30-year-old ride manufacturer based in Münsterhausen, Germany has never had problems with the safety bars in its cars. The firm has built about 50 roller coasters throughout the world. No one was ever seriously injured or killed on one until Friday, Lindnar said.

 

Lindnar said from Germany late Saturday that he didn’t want to speak about how a hydraulic bar would operate or whether or not employees at the park should be able to gauge whether a person’s body is too close to the front of the train car to prevent the bar from being effective enough.

 

“At this time I don’t want to speak about the technicals,” he said. “It’s not so easy. It’s some special equipment.”

 

He said once the ride begins, there’s no chance of opening the safety bar.

 

“Next week we will be on site and we will see what has happened,” he said.

 

Safety bars

 

Eventually, there should be a ruling about whether there was a mechanical failure or whether Esparza was not secured properly in the car. There could be other scenarios.

 

Martin, the ride investigator, said roller coasters have one-size-fits-all safety bars, generally designed for someone who weighs 180 pounds.

 

He said most parks rely on the manufacturer’s information to determine how far from the starting position a safety bar should be in relation to a person’s weight in order to be effective.

 

Park employees should be trained to determine whether a safety bar is in a safe position in relation to a person’s body weight, Martin said.

 

It’s not known if the Six Flags employee who checked the safety restraint of Esparza, who was a large woman, took that into account.

 

Martin said determining someone’s weight is difficult.

 

Before Friday, few injuries on the newly reconstructed Texas Giant had been reported to the state. The state Department of Insurance showed four injuries since the ride reopened in 2011.

 

The $10 million project transformed it from a wooden roller coaster into a wooden-steel hybrid coaster. It was named the Best New Ride of 2011 by an industry group.

 

Overall, the park reported 110 injuries to the state since the start of the 2008 season. These reports, however, are submitted by the ride operators with little outside scrutiny.

 

Nationally, the International Association of Amusement Parks and Attractions published a report in March that said in 2011, 4.3 in 1 million people who visited a park or attraction sustained an injury on a ride. The numbers were based on a survey of parks that self-reported injuries on their properties.

 

“Events like this are extremely rare, and safety is the No. 1 priority for the amusement park industry,” association spokeswoman Colleen Mangone said Saturday.

 

The data did not tabulate deaths.

 

The only other death of a guest on a Six Flags Over Texas ride occurred in 1999 when a Roaring Rapids raft capsized. Valeria Cartwright of West Helena, Ark., drowned and 10 others were injured.

[robbalvey]

Someone posted this. it`s from the Superman accident. Maybe the same thing happened here?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0KmTMf0VVQ

Yeah, if I had to place my bets, something like this is exactly what happened.

[_IntaMAN_]

So basically we have yet to know the cause of what really happened and who is to blame here. Very tragic incident indeed, barely caught up to the story today as I was gone this whole weekend.

[singemfrc]

^^^ I also thought it notable that they published this image which correctly identifies RMC and Gerstlauer.

[TyRush]

But they have ratcheting bar!

But hey, they did the best so far

[singemfrc]

^ Ouch..I did not notice that. Still a great article and it's clear that they did put forth the effort to do a good job despite what is clearly just an oversight since they correctly identify it as hydraulic in the article itself.

[chadster]

^It's because RCDB is listing it as ratcheting, messaged Duane about it.