Six Flags [FUN] Corporate Discussion Thread

[Houston Thrills]

Interesting. Perhaps we will see more Premier coasters?

 

Good point. The only thing Premier seems to be doing is building Mummy rides. If I'm correct their recent project was the Mummy in Singapore which is actually a clone of the one in Orlando. So yes, hopefully this means big projects for Premier Rides. Paramounts paid Premier to build both Flight of Fear's and the Italian Job Coasters. Six Flags has both, Joker's Jinx and Poltergeist which are same thing as Flight of Fear. Only difference is, they are out doors. It's very possible that we could see them being enclosed, if our new CEO took a tour of both SFFT and SFA, and looked into a ride renovation. But if he does that, Poltergeist would more alikely get turned into Joker themed coaster and put inside a building. Is the new CEO willing to do that for both of the Premier rides???

 

Not only that, but Paramounts parks are known for staying open late every day during the summer. For example, Kings Dominion stays open until 10:00 p.m. every night during the summer and then during their Halloween Hunt, they keep the park open until midnight on Saturdays. Fridays they do the same thing but they open much later in the evening. If the parks begin to receive high attendance during season events such as this, will they begin to stay open later?

 

Personally, I'd hate if Poltergeist was enclosed and turned into a Joker themed ride. Also, about the late hours, SFOT stays open until 10 every night during summer, and 11 on Fridays during Fright Fest (AstroWorld stayed open until midnight when it was still around, depends on the park).

[SFA Regular]

Let's pray we get some more good movie themed rides in parks now.

 

I agree with that as well. It was funny how I was talking about dropping Warner Bros and signing a deal with Paramount and look at what happens. We end up getting Paramounts Park's former CEO. As for movie themed rides, that could possibly be something on his agenda. The best move for him right now is to take a summer tour of all the parks the company owns and start making plans on what they will be doing for the future. One thing I have noticed with Kings Dominion is that their rides rarely ever have delays. So look for ride performance to improve a great deal, by getting a lot sharper and maintenance work. Another thing that has been floating my boat is (FLASH PASS). Paramount's Parks did not do flash pass. Hopefully the new CEO will see that is serves more as a disadvantage for the people waiting in the main line. With faster ride crews, you would not need flash pass.

 

So many things can be put into discussion with a more experienced CEO running Six Flags Entertainment. How many of you think the parks will start being operated more like the Paramount's Parks use to? A more even attraction installation, through out the future? Faster ride crews? Longer park hours? Improving existing rides and building facilities?

[rollin_n_coastin]

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1219047320100512

 

According to Reuters, Industry Consultant Dennis Speigel felt that although there was no reason offered for Mr. Shapiro's abrupt exit, he wouldn't leave unless he came into disagreement with the board. Dan Snyder put in his choice when he took over and both he and Mark Shapiro had a great guiding vision that for some reason doesn't jive with the new owners. So, the new owners repeated the process and put their guy in the top spot for now. While in bankruptcy, Al Weber was an advisor to Six Flags' senior bondholders and then junior bondholders led by Stark Investments.

 

As an interesting aside, you will notice that this article appears prominently above the latest Playboy news - "Playboy Raises the Bar with 3-D Centerfold". Tie-in? Most likely not but hey, perhaps a replacement for Pandavision....

[carolinacaniac]

...Six Flags has both, Joker's Jinx and Poltergeist which are same thing as Flight of Fear. Only difference is, they are out doors. It's very possible that we could see them being enclosed, if our new CEO took a tour of both SFFT and SFA, and looked into a ride renovation. But if he does that, Poltergeist would more alikely get turned into Joker themed coaster and put inside a building. Is the new CEO willing to do that for both of the Premier rides???

 

Just out of curiousity, but do you have some kind of deep dark childhood secret that you need to share that involved you being trapped in a box or something?

 

To be fair, I have not read all of your posts on TPR, but I do seem to remember many of your posts on the SFA thread being focused on this idea that Six Flags is going to enclose their premier coasters because Kings Dominon and Kings Island has.

 

Not trying to be mean, but to be realistic, I think that the chances they do that are very slim.

 

-Gary "But what do I know, one of my home parks has their's enclosed" T.

Edited May 13, 2010 by carolinacaniac

[SFA Regular]

^ Very interesting point you bring up. I do also think there was a disagreement. With the way things were going, you would have thought that Shapiro would have been here for a long time, but I guess someone did not like him and pressed the red button on him. The way I see it, Shapiro did his park and aimed the company into a good family direction. But also take notice that Dan Snyder was the first to go. Ever sense (Avenue Capital Management) put all the information out about him doing a sneaky deals with Dick Clark and draining Six Flags resources; his days become numbered for a spot on the board. I had a feeling Shapiro would end up leaving very soon. I mentioned in another post that (STARK INVESTMENTS) is looking for a quick turn around. Shapiro's plan is very long and probably didn't get a 2 thumbs up by Stark Investors. They wanted to put someone in who was going to get straight down to business and start operating the parks more like it's other successful rivals which in this case are former Paramount parks and Cedar Fair parks.

 

Look at it this way, we got a guy with a lot of experience and will more alikely offer a more balance installation plan for the parks. Thrill seekers may end up with what they want and so will family guests. That's the direction that Shapiro should have been aiming for.

[rollin_n_coastin]

^All good points. It is really fun analyzing this stuff but in reality it is probably very simple. When looking at it from a great distance, and experiencing this type of situation, when a senior exec goes, he or she may take some of his or her people with them at some point. Likewise, the new person brings in their own people. Expect Mr. Weber to replace/ fill key positions with his team over the next few months. Pretty simple and obvious stuff, but not very fun to talk about

 

Should be cool to hear about upcoming plans and direction. I hope they keep doing well and improve attendance. My first trip to a Six Flags Park was after Mr. Shapiro took over and the stories I heard about how dangerous and dirty they were I heard before he took over. I've been lucky enough to go to a few. Dirty and dangerous would never enter my mind when describing them. I'm sure there's the odd anomaly though but overall, he must have had very positive impact on staff, moral, strategy and guiding direction.

 

I think the partnership strategy was done well. The brands fit and Robb is right, every park does it. I don't necessarily agree with the train wraps and the Six Flags Cuts still seems really bizarre but everything else seems tasteful and well-executed. The lockers seemed to really help as well in terms of shortening wait times. Just bring some $1s and plan your day so that you can leave stuff in the lockers for the max time. It worked well at SFGA, we did half the park at a time and left stuff in lockers and even shared them when possible.

 

Food prices are high and especially drinks. But really, in every F&B operation, drinks are a profit gold mine. With passes priced so low, food and merchandise are there to make some money for the park. The good thing is that those costs to us are somewhat controllable. You don't need to buy food or merchandise to get into the park or enjoy yourself there. Sure, other options are not very convenient (cooler in the car or leaving going off-site) but other options are available. The fact that they offer a refillable cup is huge and storing it in a locker sure makes sense compared to buying a new paper cup full of soda, like was mentioned earlier. To make it really family friendly, I love the Marineland approach, they have picnic areas inside the park and allow food in. However, thinking like a big chain, maybe make it mandatory to store your food in the picnic area as soon as you walk in and hey, why not charge for a refrigerated locker or reserved picnic tables for set eating times? With a reasonable charge for each service, that would still allow a family to come, add some revenue and still save a lot of money as compared to buying a prepared meal for everyone, plus drinks.

[SFA Regular]

Weber has an amazing background. He has had atleast 40 years of experience in regional theme park operating. And he was recently a president and CEO of Palace Entertainment. The dude seems to know what it takes to get a park in good shape, based off his background. Another contemplation that I had in mind are how many of the park GM's will end up staying and how many will get replaced. Again, I'm thinking he is going to do a park tour and meet a lot of the GM's and look at what they have done over all. For all we know he could end up replacing a good many of them with former Paramount's park managers. I would be just as happy with that because they have more aggressive park management skills than Six Flags GM's do. Contemplations have also been made about season passes. I don't think that will change much, until the parks get better and start receiving more attendance on a regular basis. Once the parks get a lot more to offer, we can expect to see a huge jump in season pass prices.

[DOCTOR DOOM!!!]

Raise season pass prices,

Max train operation w/ more operators,

FIXED!!!

[larrygator]

...Six Flags has both, Joker's Jinx and Poltergeist which are same thing as Flight of Fear. Only difference is, they are out doors. It's very possible that we could see them being enclosed, if our new CEO took a tour of both SFFT and SFA, and looked into a ride renovation. But if he does that, Poltergeist would more alikely get turned into Joker themed coaster and put inside a building. Is the new CEO willing to do that for both of the Premier rides???

 

Just out of curiousity, but do you have some kind of deep dark childhood secret that you need to share that involved you being trapped in a box or something?

 

To be fair, I have not read all of your posts on TPR, but I do seem to remember many of your posts on the SFA thread being focused on this idea that Six Flags is going to enclose their premier coasters because Kings Dominon and Kings Island has.

 

Not trying to be mean, but to be realistic, I think that the chances they do that are very slim.

 

-Gary "But what do I know, one of my home parks has their's enclosed" T.

 

 

Gary - You already know about enclosing Joker's Jinx, but here's a recap of his dozens of posts:

SFA is awesome but should be more awesome

SFA is under appreciated for SF management

SFA needs to follow their "Master Plan"

SFA needs more flats rides

SFA needs a B&M

SFA should get the old SFA stand-up

SFA doesn't need a Tony Hawk Big Spin

A building is part of the master plan

SF parks need to stay open later during Fright Fest

SFA needs more haunted houses for Fright Fest

Edited May 13, 2010 by larrygator

[SFA Regular]

Raise season pass prices,

Max train operation w/ more operators,

FIXED!!!

 

You think that's all that is required to improve parks?

 

I was thinking the same, as a starter. Once lines start moving faster and ride performance gets better, people will once again fall in love with their regional Six Flags park, yet again. And this goes for all rides, including family attractions. That's one element that I know will improve under Alexander Weber as CEO. Wouldn't surprise me if I came back to my SFA park in 2011 and found that the rides are a lot faster and go through a whole day without 1 delay.

 

As for thrill rides. It's a lot possible that future rides will be designed so that riders exit before the train comes back into the station. That way the line moves faster. I have noticed this a lot with Kings Dominion. Italian Job, Flight of Fear and Volcano both have riders exit the ride before the train comes back in the station. If future Six Flags rides were operated like this, an hour and a half wait could turn into a basic 45 minute wait. Of course that's if they get rid of (Flash Pass).

 

If they don't want to get rid of Flash Pass just go back to making it one designated row. People were much more comfortable with that and it was fair to the people waiting in the main line. Designate (Flash Pass) only for the middle car.

[FrightFest1408]

YAH! COASTER WARS, He should start at SFMM!

[Tiburon503]

^ Very interesting point you bring up. I do also think there was a disagreement. With the way things were going, you would have thought that Shapiro would have been here for a long time, but I guess someone did not like him and pressed the red button on him. The way I see it, Shapiro did his park and aimed the company into a good family direction. But also take notice that Dan Snyder was the first to go. Ever sense (Avenue Capital Management) put all the information out about him doing a sneaky deals with Dick Clark and draining Six Flags resources; his days become numbered for a spot on the board. I had a feeling Shapiro would end up leaving very soon. I mentioned in another post that (STARK INVESTMENTS) is looking for a quick turn around. Shapiro's plan is very long and probably didn't get a 2 thumbs up by Stark Investors. They wanted to put someone in who was going to get straight down to business and start operating the parks more like it's other successful rivals which in this case are former Paramount parks and Cedar Fair parks.

It was actually Resilient Capital Management who alleged senior management made "sneaky deals" for the benefit of Red Zone. The U.S. Bankruptcy Court removed Daniel Snyder at the behest of junior bondholders. Dwight C. Schar, a Red Zone board appointee "voluntarily" declined re-election.

 

http://www.allbusiness.com/banking-finance/financial-markets-investing-securities/13915368-1.html

 

All in all, Resilient provides an interesting viewpoint on how the company may have avoided bankruptcy.

[SFA Regular]

YAH! COASTER WARS, He should start at SFMM!

 

No No No. You got me all wrong. I don't mean bankrupt the company by battling the competition with high prices coaster installations. What I meant, was start by improving on what they already have, which is a very simple task. People will easily take notice that their favorite thrill and family rides are being improved in maintenance, checking seats, ride performance= speed, and the wait in line. This will make people happy for the time being and give the dry side of the park a better image. As for the future, I was saying that future attractions should all be designed with a loading and unloading station. It saves a lot of time when ride attendants can collect lose articles and put them over at the unloading station, so that people don't waste time grabbing their things and holding up the line for people trying to get on next. Not sure why Six Flags Inc never tried this idea for their newer attractions, but it surely worked for all the other theme park chains. In the long run it pays off because people will continue to come back if big lines for popular family and thrill rides move rather quickly.

 

That's all I was saying. No, I don't want Alexander Weber to put the company in the same (HOLE) that Premier Parks did. It would then again take forever getting it back out. All they need to do is make the future installations more balanced by offering both thrill and family installations. This way, your park is more balanced and they will retain some of the guests that they lost to Cedar Fair.

[JEAPUgrad]

Of course that's if they get rid of (Flash Pass).

 

If they don't want to get rid of Flash Pass just go back to making it one designated row. People were much more comfortable with that and it was fair to the people waiting in the main line. Designate (Flash Pass) only for the middle car.

 

Obviously Flash Pass is creating additional revenues for the parks since the program is being phased into ALL the parks.

 

If they get rid of the Flash Pass, how are they going to afford to enclose Joker's Jinx?

[Wes]

SFA Regular, what I really want to know is why you put basic nouns in (PARENTHESIS)?

[traincrossin]

Not sure why Six Flags Inc never tried this idea for their newer attractions, but it surely worked for all the other theme park chains.

Because that would require more employees which would cost more money for Six Flags?

[SFA Regular]

SFA Regular, what I really want to know is why you put basic nouns in (PARENTHESIS)?

 

I do that so that people know the importance of the word I am trying to lay across to everyone.

 

And as for the Flash pass revenue being used to put rides like (Jokers Jinx) and (Poltergeist) inside, we will see in recent years if that flash pass thing puts both those attractions indoors. If flash pass is making the park that much money, then Mr. Alexander Weber should put it into plans within the next 2 years. 2011 is the company's 50 year Anniversary, so maybe the surprise additions for parks will be much greater than what we all expected. Again, I do agree that it depends on how well the parks do for 2010. It would be nice to see more (Premier Rides) built inside of Six Flags parks. For the parks that already got family additions for 2010, why not install a coaster in them for their 2011 addition? For the parks that received thrill attractions or thrill attraction revamps such as X2 and both, Superman and Bizarro they should receive family additions for 2011. That is very fair, in my opinion. This way the love is distributed among all the parks very evenly and the bigger parks don't end up sucking up some much of the industry. This gives the smaller parks a chance to grow.

[JEAPUgrad]

 

And as for the Flash pass revenue being used to put rides like (Jokers Jinx) and (Poltergeist) inside, we will see in recent years if that flash pass thing puts both those attractions indoors

 

It's called sarcasm.

[Houston Thrills]

It would be nice to see more (Premier Rides) built inside of Six Flags parks.

 

Not sure SF wants to relive the whole Chiller thing. As for more Premier coasters, SF has bought as many as Paramount:

 

Freeze

Freeze

Chiller

Joker's Jinx

Poltergeist

 

and then Runaway Mountain, if you want to count it.

[cfc]

SFA Regular, what I really want to know is why you put basic nouns in (PARENTHESIS)?

 

I do that so that people know the importance of the word I am trying to lay across to everyone.

 

Speaking as a copyeditor, you are wrong. Placing nouns in parentheses does not emphasize their importance; instead, it is an annoying distraction that makes your posts more difficult to read. Occasional italics are acceptable for emphasis--emphasis on occasional.

[Mechanic]

However this all plays out, I certainly hope that Six Flags as a company recognizes the very noticeable difference in employee attitudes over the past few years. The 2 SF parks that I go to regularly, SFDK and SFMM, has made tremendous strides in employee courtesty / friendliness / helpfulness. That is in addition to having been generally cleaned up and refurbished / repaired / repainted. They really need to keep that up and hear that their guests do appreciate the efforts made.

 

I look forward to new and exciting rides as well, but the change in atmosphere and employee attitudes are what really impressed me the most during the brief Shapiro era. Shapiro himself may have struck me on a not entirely positive note, (Whether it's fair or not, he just seemed kind of "mafia-greasy" to me. Maybe it was just the accent? I don't really know...) but I can't argue with the positive changes I experienced at the SF parks that I attend with my family while he was in charge.

 

I'm glad to see the company in a better position from which to move forward and will hope for the best.

 

P.S. I'm not entirely sure my use of parentheses will pass the copy editor's scrutiny.

Edited May 13, 2010 by Mechanic

[robbalvey]

SFA Regular, what I really want to know is why you put basic nouns in (PARENTHESIS)?

 

I do that so that people know the importance of the word I am trying to lay across to everyone.

 

Speaking as a copyeditor, you are wrong. Placing nouns in parentheses does not emphasize their importance; instead, it is an annoying distraction that makes your posts more difficult to read. Occasional italics are acceptable for emphasis--emphasis on occasional.

Agreed. Thank you Chuck. This use of emphasis has annoyed me for quite some time.

 

--Robb "Thank you for helping our posters write better!" Alvey

[YoshiFan]

If they don't want to get rid of Flash Pass just go back to making it one designated row. People were much more comfortable with that and it was fair to the people waiting in the main line. Designate (Flash Pass) only for the middle car.

 

That doesn't work well on busy days. There have been times at Great Adventure where Scream Machine had the flashpass line backed up the entire exit ramp and because only 4 flashpass users could ride per train (car 6 is designated for flashpass users) they ended up letting 2 full trains in a row go out with flashpass users to get the flashplass line down which caused the standby line not to move.

[SFA Regular]

If they don't want to get rid of Flash Pass just go back to making it one designated row. People were much more comfortable with that and it was fair to the people waiting in the main line. Designate (Flash Pass) only for the middle car.

 

That doesn't work well on busy days. There have been times at Great Adventure where Scream Machine had the flashpass line backed up the entire exit ramp and because only 4 flashpass users could ride per train (car 6 is designated for flashpass users) they ended up letting 2 full trains in a row go out with flashpass users to get the flashplass line down which caused the standby line not to move.

 

But either way, it backs each other up no matter which one you favor. If you let a whole train of flash pass riders on, then it backs the main line up. If you let mainly, main line waiters on the trains, then it backs the flash pass up. I favor the people waiting in the main line because thats how amusement parks are. Again, with a fast ride crew the line would be steady. Flight of Fear's line at Kings Dominion moves well on busy days. Now imagine if they added flash pass. It would take forever to get on the ride. Maybe a little bit quicker sense they unload before the people get back up, but for Kings Dominion it would be a nightmare for most of their rides if they started flash pass, which is something I hope they never do.

 

Bottom line is rides should only do flash pass if they are equipped to do it. In my opinion, only parks like Disney and Universal should do this kind of thing because their rides have so many trains and their ride crews move quicker. Six Flags rides only have 2 trains at the max, if not three for some parks. If a ride has three trains, then only the third train should be used for Flash pass and the other two are only for people in the main line so that it keeps moving.

[Houston Thrills]

Maybe parks just need to implement Flash Pass better?

 

At SFOT, the Flash pass line merges with the regular line just before the station in most cases. Exceptions that I can think of are Bobsled, Gold River, and the log flume (Flash Pass only uses Flume 2, though, can't get on Flume 1 with it).