Will B&M ever top the charts?

[thrillrider]

Simple answer. ..yes.

 

Look no further than holiday world for a possible winner. In my opinion, banshee was a hell of a ride and one of the most forceful intense B&M coasters I have been on.

 

They are starting to branch out a little more now with the addition of the launch coaster and several other newer types of coasters like wing riders .

 

I like intamin, but let's be honest.....they are not the most reliable rides out there. It's not often that you run into a B&M coaster down due to major issues and engineering blunders. B&M seems to get it right the first time, albeit not pushing the envelope as much as intiman.

 

I'm no industry expert by any stretch of the imagination, but you do have to question intamins safety into question also.

[rcdude]

Back in the 1990s, B&M was the premier coaster manufacturer. Up until about 2000, B&M was the most innovative company with the most creative designs. Then Intamin took over in the enthusiast world because they were willing to continue pushing the envelope while B&M continued to do more of the same. In recent years, the negatives of Intamin's designs seem to be catching up to them, and since fewer and fewer Intamin coasters are being built (at least in North America and Europe) they are slowly being replaced by Rocky Mountain as the enthusiast favorite.

 

However, although B&M has fallen out of favor with enthusiasts, they remain the most popular manufacturer among the GP. I cannot think of a single park that has an unpopular B&M (relative to the park's other coasters), but I can definitely think of major coasters by other manufacturers that don't seem to have caught on as well with the GP. In addition, most major parks seem to prefer B&M to other steel coaster manufacturers when it comes to larger rides. Finally, in the past few years B&M has started to experiment a bit more with their designs, and a couple of their most recent coasters rival those built by the company in the 1990s in terms of enthusiast opinions.

 

Will B&M ever top the charts? Possibly. It depends on what the company has coming. Inverted coasters are not as popular now as they once were, but if B&M can build a truly unique ride they would have a chance. I could also see a hyper doing it, especially if the airtime and forces are comparable to what Intamin's mega coasters deliver. I'm really curious to see where Banshee places in the next Mitch Hawker poll, as well as the enthusiast reception of Thunderbird and Fury 325, as those will likely be good indicators as to whether B&M is experiencing a resurgence in the enthusiast community or not.

[madsecar]

^ Valleyfair doesn't have a B&M. At least not YET.

[gerstlaueringvar]

I agree that B&M's change in business strategy isn't great for enthusiasts. Banshee might be a very forceful ride, but the "Stengel snaps" aren't there anymore so it always feel like the newer B&M's are missing something. Yes the world needs forceless rides, but finding the right balance is more important than making a coaster as forceless as possible. Outlaw Run's Max positive G is only 3.8 but it still packs a punch. While I really like intense rides, I wouldn't mind a slightly tamed ride with a creative layout and I believe most enthusiasts would be the same. Fury 325 seems like a good start because it has more low to the ground elements than any of the previous B&M coasters. But in order to top the chart, they need to make more creative layout and stronger airtime.

[coasterbill]

I cannot think of a single park that has an unpopular B&M (relative to the park's other coasters), but I can definitely think of major coasters by other manufacturers that don't seem to have caught on as well with the GP.

 

Vortex at Carowinds is complete crap and it doesn't seem to be all that popular but for the most part I agree.

 

Best coasters with inversions = B&M

 

Meh... that's even debatable

 

 

 

I do think B&M is a great company... I just think Intamin is better. Still, I have 5 B&M rides in my top 10 (though only 2 were built in the last 15 years). They make great rides, but new B&M's don't blow me away like their old rides do or like Intamin or RMC rides do.

[GwaziBSRider1]

Even though I have more Intamins in my top 10, I find B&M to be slightly better overall. There are rides from both companies that I really don't care for, but there are more Intamins than B&Ms on that list. I get more excited riding a new-to-me B&M versus an Intamin. As for their newer portfolios, the B&Ms win for me. I haven't met a new B&M that I didn't absolutely love, but Intamins newer rides have been "hit or miss" for me. As for RMC, I will say that the two I've ridden are both excellent, but I'll still consider B&M to be my favorite company until RMC proves themselves with excellent rides over a longer span of time.

[FaithPlus1]

I still make a point to go on Batman at every visit to SFMM though, because that is a masterpiece of a coaster.

 

I'm surprised that Kumba isn't ranked higher than it is in the Mitch Hawker's Poll.

 

Some enthusiasts are whiny. Some of us love super intense rides and others hit their head on the restraint one time or hear a slight rattle and it's the end of the world. I've heard people complain about Batman (which I consider to be one of the smoothest coasters ever) being rough (and if you don't believe me go do a search and you'll be amazed). Some of us love awesome B&M coasters like Kumba and Batman that rip through every element with ridiculous intensity and speed but there are plenty of other people that complain about Batman being rough (lol) or Kumba's corkscrews being rough (lol) and that drives down their overall rankings.

 

Batman I think also falls victim to being a clone which for some reason causes it to be overlooked even though without fail it's one of the best rides at every park that has one (in my opinion it's the second best coaster at Great Adventure after El Toro and the second or third best at Magic Mountain after Tatsu and Apocalypse if they actually re-track it).

 

Everyone says they want more intense coasters but they don't because people find something to complain about whenever we get one. People don't like Maverick's restraints, or I305's first turn and with old B&M's god forbid you hit your head once on any ride with an over the shoulder restraint. Now B&M builds rides with no intensity at all like Griffon or Wild Eagle (both of which I still enjoy) and people complain about them too because they're forceless... so people complain no matter what.

 

My guess is that Kumba isn't ranked higher because of the amount of people being over-dramatic about hitting their head once or twice despite the fact that it's a ridiculously smooth and awesome coaster. Kumba is easily the best B&M I've ever ridden (though I'd love to ride Nemesis one day).

 

 

Couldn't disagree more. I make a point to skip all Batman Clones. I find them to be too compact and provide a bad ride. I don't enjoy them at all.

Honestly the Batman Clones are the only inverts I will skip. I think B&M got better after the Batman experiment.

[thrillrider]

See...I love the batman clones. Very intense rides.

[canadianparkfan]

I doubt they'll top the polls, however, IMO, I find it pretty ironic how many people are saying they're stuck to their "traditional" ways. About 15-20 years ago, all those rides were quite groundbreaking (and some of them, ie. Batman clones, are still amazing today). It seems like over the last 15-10 years, B&M Just got lazy, and didn't expect other companies like Intamin to step up, or startups like RMC to make such a splash.

[tarheel1231]

I feel like this thread has turned into another "B&M vs. Intamin" debate. Everyone knows Vekoma is the best manufacturer. It takes a hot, steamy dump on both companies.

[Woodie Warrior]

I enjoy newer B&M's as much or more than the older ones. I could ride GateKeeper, Patriot, Manta, or Wildfire all day, while I'm not that fond of Raptor. I am a huge fan of Hulk and Raging Bull, though.

[VF15]

I really don't understand all of the B&M hate among enthusiasts. Yes, after 2000, none of their rides have really been as good as their originals, but they still make fun, great coasters that satisfy their riders. Don't get me wrong, I love forceful and intense coasters just as much as the next person, but it doesn't have to be "OMG-eyeballs-in-the-back-of-your-skull" intense for it to be considered a great ride. Take X-Flight for example: it doesn't have any "extreme" forces, but I still found it to be thrilling and fun. B&M still makes great rides, and I think they'll continue to do so in the future.

[rollercoasterbuff]

I definitely love a good Intamin. And I second what some are saying about skipping over batman clones lol. I do have to say though, I love Banshee. Absolutely love it. It was one of the best coasters I've been on, period. I think B&M hit the nail on the head with that one. I'd like to see more coasters like that from them in the future.

[GwaziBSRider1]

I doubt they'll top the polls, however, IMO, I find it pretty ironic how many people are saying they're stuck to their "traditional" ways. About 15-20 years ago, all those rides were quite groundbreaking (and some of them, ie. Batman clones, are still amazing today). It seems like over the last 15-10 years, B&M Just got lazy, and didn't expect other companies like Intamin to step up, or startups like RMC to make such a splash.

 

I wouldn't say B&M has gotten lazy at all. Yes, they haven't been as cutting-edge in the last several years, but in the end, does "cutting-edge" always mean a #1 attraction? Of course, not. But they have taken two existing coaster types and made them more marketable: the flying coaster and the wing coaster.

[MrSum1_55]

If anything, B&M is more likely to be on its slow way out of the charts.

 

It used to be that B&M was the company of innovation. They were the first to introduce the inverted coaster, the floorless coaster, and the dive coaster. (Two of these have yet to be made by any other company the way they did them).

 

But now, it seems that B&M is stuck in the mid 2000's, with very little innovation since. Everything new they have tried since then has been something that was already introduced by another company. (Wingriders, soft restraints, etc...)

 

While B&M has been stuck where they were, other companies have really stepped it up. While Intamin has been their competitor for the last decade, we are starting to see other companies like RMC, Gerstlauer, and Mack do amazing things. Gerstlauer will be new to the hyper market, so we will see how they do. Mack has made some rides that have the potential to rank very high, like Aplina Blitz. I expect to see more great coasters from this company within the next five years.

 

Also, I think that Premier has the potential to be one of the next top companies, but they just have not been able to fulfill that yet. (All of their recent designs have been short, compact coasters, and they have not really had a chance to show us what they can do with a larger footprint and bigger budget).

 

If B&M stays where they are for the next ten years, it would not surprise me if the top 10 became a competition between Intamin, RMC, Gerstlauer, Mack, Premier, or whatever the next big new company will be.

 

I applaud B&M from a business perspective. They did a great job of getting the designs right and sticking to them. For years to come, we will see plenty of fun, smooth rides from them, but we might never see another B&M in the top ten.

[Propeller Factory]

Ya know I love coasters like i305 but I also applaud coasters that pack a punch and are rerideable. Alpenguist is on the top of my list because it's a great coaster with great elements in a great setting and I could reride it over and over because it's a very smooth ride with some force, but not a huge amount, which is a good thing IMO.

[Anything]

Unless B&M move away from their lumbering and relatively forceless style - I doubt it.

[El Toro_Ryan]

B&M's older coasters may be better but I still think their new ones are great. Like Gatekeeper is the newest B&M I have ridden and while it wasn't my favorite coaster, it was still an excellent ride none the less. It was smooth as glass, had good pacing, and I even thought it had some good forces to it. B&M probably won't top the charts anytime soon, well at least the Mitch Hawker poll, but either way, I don't think the company has made a bad coaster since Vortex at Carowinds (and that ride is not bad at all IMO). You have to keep in mind coaster enthusiasts are probably only like 1% of the population going to theme parks so it makes sense for B&M to cater to the GP. For example, Intimidator 305 is a phenomenal ride and I loved it but from what I've absorbed, the GP don't seem to love that ride as much as us coaster enthusiasts do. The last time I was at Kings Dominion, I waited longer for Volcano and Dominator than Intimidator (and it was only running one train.) From what I've gotten out of working at GADV, the GP's favorite ride at the park is typically Nitro, a B&M and not El Toro or Kingda Ka lol. B&M may not be the most cutting edge coaster company out there right now but I think they have a formula that works very well, making smooth and reliable coasters everyone can enjoy.

[thrillrider]

If anything, B&M is more likely to be on its slow way out of the charts.

 

It used to be that B&M was the company of innovation. They were the first to introduce the inverted coaster, the floorless coaster, and the dive coaster. (Two of these have yet to be made by any other company the way they did them).

 

Stuck?

They are now getting into launch coasters, they have had new coaster types come out like wing coasters. Not to mention improvements on existing rides like new restraints.

 

But now, it seems that B&M is stuck in the mid 2000's, with very little innovation since. Everything new they have tried since then has been something that was already introduced by another company. (Wingriders, soft restraints, etc...)

 

While B&M has been stuck where they were, other companies have really stepped it up. While Intamin has been their competitor for the last decade, we are starting to see other companies like RMC, Gerstlauer, and Mack do amazing things. Gerstlauer will be new to the hyper market, so we will see how they do. Mack has made some rides that have the potential to rank very high, like Aplina Blitz. I expect to see more great coasters from this company within the next five years.

 

Also, I think that Premier has the potential to be one of the next top companies, but they just have not been able to fulfill that yet. (All of their recent designs have been short, compact coasters, and they have not really had a chance to show us what they can do with a larger footprint and bigger budget).

 

If B&M stays where they are for the next ten years, it would not surprise me if the top 10 became a competition between Intamin, RMC, Gerstlauer, Mack, Premier, or whatever the next big new company will be.

 

I applaud B&M from a business perspective. They did a great job of getting the designs right and sticking to them. For years to come, we will see plenty of fun, smooth rides from them, but we might never see another B&M in the top ten.

[canadianparkfan]

If anything, B&M is more likely to be on its slow way out of the charts.

 

It used to be that B&M was the company of innovation. They were the first to introduce the inverted coaster, the floorless coaster, and the dive coaster. (Two of these have yet to be made by any other company the way they did them).

 

But now, it seems that B&M is stuck in the mid 2000's, with very little innovation since. Everything new they have tried since then has been something that was already introduced by another company. (Wingriders, soft restraints, etc...)

 

While B&M has been stuck where they were, other companies have really stepped it up. While Intamin has been their competitor for the last decade, we are starting to see other companies like RMC, Gerstlauer, and Mack do amazing things. Gerstlauer will be new to the hyper market, so we will see how they do. Mack has made some rides that have the potential to rank very high, like Aplina Blitz. I expect to see more great coasters from this company within the next five years.

 

Also, I think that Premier has the potential to be one of the next top companies, but they just have not been able to fulfill that yet. (All of their recent designs have been short, compact coasters, and they have not really had a chance to show us what they can do with a larger footprint and bigger budget).

 

If B&M stays where they are for the next ten years, it would not surprise me if the top 10 became a competition between Intamin, RMC, Gerstlauer, Mack, Premier, or whatever the next big new company will be.

 

I applaud B&M from a business perspective. They did a great job of getting the designs right and sticking to them. For years to come, we will see plenty of fun, smooth rides from them, but we might never see another B&M in the top ten.

Couldn't agree more.

 

However, it seems B&M have started a bit of a trend of "rideable" rather than intense coasters. From what I've heard in reviews of rides like Helix from Mack and Outla Run from RMC, it seems as if both those companies are laying off the gas just a little when it comes to intensity. Seems as though Intamin is the only one consistsntly pumping out intense coasters.

 

Just my observation though. I could be way off base with this.

[Superbatboy]

One thing I wonder, is why it seems as if people still consider B&M the bench mark for smooth coasters. I've ridden coasters from Premier, Giovanola, Intamin, and Mack that are all smoother than any B&M I've ridden.

[canadianparkfan]

^Agreed. Smoothest coaster I've been on was the Mindbender, a Schwarzkopf made about 30 years ago. That's around 5 years before B&M was even in business!

[gerstlaueringvar]

I don't get it either, B&M coasters are smooth for the 90s even though there are Schwarzkopf coasters that are even smoother. For today's standard, they aren't among the smoothest anymore. Premier, Intamin, Gerstlauer, Mack, S&S etc are pushing their technology and making smoother ride while B&M is still using the same technique on track manufacturing. Their new train designs just aren't as good as the old ones IMO. Plus seems like the majority of B&M coasters would get horrible rattle if the wheels aren't being changed often.

[Woodie Warrior]

I don't get it either, B&M coasters are smooth for the 90s even though there are Schwarzkopf coasters that are even smoother. For today's standard, they aren't among the smoothest anymore. Premier, Intamin, Gerstlauer, Mack, S&S etc are pushing their technology and making smoother ride while B&M is still using the same technique on track manufacturing. Their new train designs just aren't as good as the old ones IMO. Plus seems like the majority of B&M coasters would get horrible rattle if the wheels aren't being changed often.

Pretty sure that'd be the case for any coaster

[rcjp]

One thing I wonder, is why it seems as if people still consider B&M the bench mark for smooth coasters. I've ridden coasters from Premier, Giovanola, Intamin, and Mack that are all smoother than any B&M I've ridden.

Well, I guess that does depend on the coasters you've ridden (and perhaps even the time when you rode them). Based on the ones I have, I'm not surprised to hear people saying B&M is the benchmark for smoothness. Sure, I have ridden some smooth coasters from other manufacturers (storm runner, for example, was very smooth when I rode it) but B&M seems to be more consistent. All BTR I've been on were as smooth as possible and so was raptor at CP (although I've heard some saying otherwise) and those were built when manufacturers like arrow were still making coat-hangers.

That being said, I do think that, in terms of smoothness, I'm not that impressed by their newer rides as they seem less smooth than their older ones, for some reason. So perhaps if you consider rides being built now, B&M doesn't stand out like they did before, I guess.