NEWS: $70 Million Amusement Park Proposed for St. Louis

[jedimaster1227]

http://fox2now.com/2014/11/13/70-million-amusement-park-planned-for-union-station/

 

A plan to build a $70 million amusement park at Union Station has been filed with the St. Louis TIF commission.

 

The document outlines what is called ‘phase two’ of the renovation of Union Station. Phase one was the $50 million renovation of the Grand Hall which was completed earlier this year. Union Station was bought in 2012 by Maryland Heights-based Lodging Hospitality Management. LHM is asking the city for an $18.5 million TIF to help fund phase two.

 

The amusement park would be spread over 26 acres, some of it under the old train shed and some of it inside the building. There are no drawings yet, but it will feature restaurants, retail and rides, including a 200 foot Ferris wheel with heated and air conditioned gondolas. Downtown STL Inc., sees the project as a way to make the city more family friendly.

 

“Now, we have the City Museum, we have a bowling alley, we have a movie theater and we are going to have this great anchor in Union Station where you get to do things you can`t do in other parts of St. Louis,” said spokesperson Missy Kelley.

 

The new 6th ward alderman says she doesn’t think the TIF will be difficult to pass, but she also doesn`t think the developer will get something for nothing.

 

“I have asked LHM to go back and consider some public infrastructure improvements,’ said Alderman Christine Ingrassia. ‘I believe a good partnership allows them to get their project done as well as public improvements in the city,” she said. Specifically, she said she is hoping for upgrades in sidewalks and lighting near Union Station.

 

Otis Williams, executive director of the St. Louis Development Corporation says it`s important to keep the size of the TIF request in perspective. “If you look at the total investment (including phase one) it is probably one-sixth of it.”

 

A spokesperson for LHM declined to comment, saying it is too early in the process to discuss the details. The next step is a hearing before the TIF commission on January 7.

 

If it is passed, the plan then goes to the Board of Aldermen. Assuming it clears that hurdle, it is expected to take about two years to build.

 

It is also projected to create 350 jobs and draw one million visitors each year.

Edited November 16, 2014 by jedimaster1227

[Diamondbacker27]

Am I the only one that think St. Louis doesn't need another amusement park? I mean the more the merrier, but I'll be shocked if it happens.

*Waits on someone to quote this and say "Yes." *

[Woodie Warrior]

SFSTL is a 30-40 minute drive from Union Station. People who are visiting downtown for a few days won't make the drive all the way out there, but they'd walk 5 minutes to ride a Ferris wheel with a great view of down town.

[theymitbgi]

I believe there is something currently 630 feet tall that provides a great view of downtown.

[parkjunkie]

Its both a great and horrible idea. This Downtown St. Louis area definitely needs some more attractions, and the aging, boring, no one goes there anymore Union Station definitely needs an overhaul. But I just don't see it getting passed by the officials, and if it does, I just dont see it taking off. As much as I love amusement parks, even cheesy little ones, another reason this is bad is the downtown St. Louis area just isnt as safe as it used to be. Just in the past year, there have been 3 or 4 SHOOTING alone at Union Station, not to mention the few robberies and "knock out" game victims.... all at Union Station alone. If it wasn't for the crime in the area, and other negative factors weighing in on how St. Louis does things, it would be a wonderful idea

[Gnome]

I believe there is something currently 630 feet tall that provides a great view of downtown.

I do believe you're right!

[yay101]

Am I the only one that think St. Louis doesn't need another amusement park? I mean the more the merrier, but I'll be shocked if it happens.

*Waits on someone to quote this and say "Yes." *

 

Yes

 

Just so you don't have to wait anymore

 

Well St. Louis is already big with tourism and has SFStl. If they do add one, it needs to be unique and not a Six Flags-type park. If that was the case then I would be okay with it.

[ytterbiumanalyst]

^ Are you kidding? The mall that's there can't keep any tenants, and they think they're going to get 1 million visitors a year? That's the same attendance as Six Flags, roughly. I love that they saved the building--it's just too beautiful to tear down--but the business model is just crap. Admittedly there is some room to build an amusement park there, as a lot of the parking that's in the train shed doesn't really need to be there--there's plenty around the area, and quite a few visitors come by Metrolink too. But I just don't see a handful of rides bringing that number of people in.

 

I hope I"m wrong. A $70 million investment can really build a lot of stuff, and if they build the right things, it could go well for them. Plus, an amusement park in a train shed is all of the things I love in one place--and in St. Louis too! I really REALLY want this. But then I have to be realistic too and say it probably won't be built, and if it is built, it will likely hemorrhage money so badly it will doom Union Station entirely. Which is the very reason investors will look at this and then give their money to some other project.

[HWFan]

^When I read that attendance number, I couldn't take anything else seriously. Even though the $70 million budget seems like a lot, it really isn't given the information that they have released. After some quick Google searches mixed with my own knowledge, here is a small cost break down based on rough estimates:

-$20 million: 200ft wheel sounds like the one made by Chance that has a 177ft diameter.

-$10 million: Parking infrastructure upgrades. Loosing the main parking under the train shed mixed with their plans to provide supplement parking for the Scottrade/Peabody would need a garage, which would cost at least $8 million.

-$10 million: Train shed renovations. I really have no idea, but this is partially based on the $50 they already spent renovating the rest of the property. I would expect the real number to be much higher.

-$10 million: Basic park infrastructure. Including utilities, pathways, etc. I think this is still very conservative for 26acres

 

Now they have $20 million left for the fun stuff. Remember that a good sized quick service restaurant will cost $2million and bathrooms would be around $250,000 each, no to mention the shops, ticket booths, etc. I'm pretty confident in all of my estimates at least being the minimum, but correct me if I seem way off. If they don't enclose anything else under the train shed, that space will run out very quickly with restaurants and retail space alone to support 1 million people a year. However, with thousands of malls closing in the past decade and more to come, I do think that this park would be more successful than the mall atmosphere alone, if it is marketed as more of an entertainment complex with less retail emphasis. St. Louis could really benefit from this type of development, especially if most of it is climate controlled. It would be a fun place for locals to enjoy on the weekends during the winter especially. I'm sure lots of SLU students would take advantage of it, and as ^you^ mentioned, the MetroLink station will make it extremely accessible.

 

The $70 million number also includes almost $30 million in tax credits and other subsidies. An alderman, speaking about just the $18.5, said that the number isn't totally unrealistic, but the developers can't expect to get that much for nothing. In terms of the attendance numbers, I wonder if that is the estimated for the first year or not. With no admission costs, if they get enough people to stop by for an hour or two of shopping and dining with no rides, then their number is a bit more realistic.

 

Edit: The $20 million ferris wheel figure was based on Seattle's wheel. However, about $6-8 million was based on foundations for the pier. A $12-14 million figure is more realistic, unless they make it bigger for the full 200ft.

[SFSTLMO]

It really seems like St. Louis is trying to get more people to come to the city. They just added Ballpark Village, and now they are "attempting" to build an amusement park in the city!

[HWFan]

It really seems like St. Louis is trying to get more people to come to the city. They just added Ballpark Village, and now they are "attempting" to build an amusement park in the city!

I love the revitalization of the city. The zoo is also working on unprecedented long term expansion plans including a pair of giant parking structures, restaurants, and a hotel on the old FP Hospital site with transportation over the highway. The current main parking lot would become an African savanna. St. Louis has been slow to recover economically, but it also is looking like a great recovery.

 

I think it's an interesting coincidence the plans for this downtown park come out when the city is celebrating 250 years including a huge renovation and expansion of the Arch grounds. Back while the city was celebrating its bicentennial including the construction of the Arch, the city and Disney were working on plans to build a $40 million (almost $300 million today with inflation) indoor park downtown. I really hope it works out this time.

 

(More information on the Disney park can be found here: http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2012/11/riverfront-square-walt-disney-theme.html )

[prozach626]

It's never going to happen. The area can't (won't) support it.

[SFSTLMO]

Am I the only one that think St. Louis doesn't need another amusement park? I mean the more the merrier, but I'll be shocked if it happens.

*Waits on someone to quote this and say "Yes." *

What do you mean? Some people don't want to go all the way out to Eureka to have some fun. As long as they don't make it similar to SFSL, I think it would be a good addition.

[Shavethewhales]

^ Are you kidding? The mall that's there can't keep any tenants, and they think they're going to get 1 million visitors a year? That's the same attendance as Six Flags, roughly. I love that they saved the building--it's just too beautiful to tear down--but the business model is just crap. Admittedly there is some room to build an amusement park there, as a lot of the parking that's in the train shed doesn't really need to be there--there's plenty around the area, and quite a few visitors come by Metrolink too. But I just don't see a handful of rides bringing that number of people in.

 

I hope I"m wrong. A $70 million investment can really build a lot of stuff, and if they build the right things, it could go well for them. Plus, an amusement park in a train shed is all of the things I love in one place--and in St. Louis too! I really REALLY want this. But then I have to be realistic too and say it probably won't be built, and if it is built, it will likely hemorrhage money so badly it will doom Union Station entirely. Which is the very reason investors will look at this and then give their money to some other project.

 

We need to see more details here to see what they're really talking about. If they have a revitalization plan for the whole area that includes some rides, then great. If they're just plopping some rides down and hoping to throw together a make-shift "amusement park" in the middle of a struggling shopping mall, then they'll have some problems. I love the idea of urban ride-based attractions, but they really have to be tailed to be just right for the area and clientele. I hope this doesn't turn out to be another failure story that discourages further entrepreneurs in other cities down the road.

[Woodie Warrior]

^Yeah, if this does happen I don't think it'd be a real, full-blown amusement park. I do agree that an entertainment center with a few rides, shops, unique restaurants would be a great way to revitalize Union Station.

[Beni_Rodriguez]

It's never going to happen. The area can't (won't) support it.

 

This.

[SteveStL]

Anything that can bring more people to the Downtown area in a plus. Nothing much to do downtown rather than sporting events and the occasional concert.

[SFSTLMO]

The plan moves ahead, keeping the Ferris Wheel but removing the roller coaster: www.stltoday.com/business/local/light-shows-and-expanded-hotel-part-of-new-union-station/article_3ce6a347-b249-597e-b769-fa44ce4f26d7.html

[pixelated85]

This, right here. As long as these parts come to fruition, it'll be a hit with the StL crowd.

 

"Existing outdoor space will be turned over to old train cars and steel shipping containers redone as food and drink outlets for barbecue, burgers, ice cream, craft beer, wine and cocktails.

 

At 18th Street and Clark Avenue, a new pedestrian entrance is to include what LHM said will be an illuminated archway to guide visitors to the plaza, which is designed for festivals, live music, farmers markets, craft fairs and other events.

 

“Festoon lighting along the pathways in seating areas will provide illumination and guide visitors through the space,” David Fierabend, principal of Groundswell Design, said in a press release. “A special Tube Light show will be featured every 30 minutes which will synchronize with music.”

[parkjunkie]

This idea definitely has potential and for the most part is very well thought out. I just am weary of how successful it will be and how much draw it will actually have. Union Station is without a doubt a landmark in St. Louis, its just that everything they have tried to revitalize this beautiful landmark over the past 30 years usually fails. I think they are on the right track with getting Union Station back on the map, but the one thing I think they also need to focus on is the inside... the shops, the restaurants, the entertainment... so many shops and restaurants have closed shop and moved to other locations in downtown St. Louis already as it is and not many new shops or restaurants have filled those empty spaces. If they can come up with an idea to redo, retheme, or reconstruct the inside as well, I think they would be much better off and have a sure winner.

[Philrad71]

This is certainly interesting news given the fact that they might be shuffling their NFL team back to LA.

 

Addition by subtraction perhaps?

[pixelated85]

This idea definitely has potential and for the most part is very well thought out. I just am weary of how successful it will be and how much draw it will actually have. Union Station is without a doubt a landmark in St. Louis, its just that everything they have tried to revitalize this beautiful landmark over the past 30 years usually fails. I think they are on the right track with getting Union Station back on the map, but the one thing I think they also need to focus on is the inside... the shops, the restaurants, the entertainment... so many shops and restaurants have closed shop and moved to other locations in downtown St. Louis already as it is and not many new shops or restaurants have filled those empty spaces. If they can come up with an idea to redo, retheme, or reconstruct the inside as well, I think they would be much better off and have a sure winner.

 

http://www.stltoday.com/business/local/light-shows-and-expanded-hotel-part-of-new-union-station/article_3ce6a347-b249-597e-b769-fa44ce4f26d7.html

 

The article linked above mentions that they intend to convert the "mall" portion of Union Station into additional hotel rooms, as well as event space.

[parkjunkie]

^ I saw that, but that doesn't help the project. They have ample amount of opportunity to do something amazing.... hotel rooms are no the answer, especially during cooler or colder weather... when the weather gets too cold for the outdoor attractions and shops, they should have indoor things to keep business year round

[ejot]

My take as a non-expert: This all just took a wildly bad turn.

 

Ditching any rides and pushing back the Ferris Wheel timeline so far that it too will probably be cancelled? Blowing a huge portion of the budget restoring a half-million sq ft space and relying on its historical appeal as the attraction? Underwhelming, poorly detailed promises: a fountain, a light show, a light tunnel, and a vaguely referenced "3D animation", "green space", and "fire show"? Almost completely ditching the retail space?

 

It's like they're trying as hard as possible to recreate the disaster that was Six Flags Power Point in Baltimore.

 

On the bright side, the hotel addition sounds lovely. I've stayed there and it was already quite nice. And the food/booze trucks in old train cars is brilliant. If there were any decent attractions backing up those elements, they could have really been onto something.

 

But overall - a massive train wreck - pardon the pun.

[Shavethewhales]

^I mean, any hotel in the middle of a big city should be pretty lucrative, especially one inside of a historic building. The rest of this is just cheap development, possibly to serve as a placeholder for when they have the funds and interest to go back to the original ideas. Food trucks/containers are a current fad that don't cost much to implement and remove later, and the fountain/light show stuff are just cheap gimmicks to make it flashier. So basically they're just going to do a glorified food court for now and perhaps in a decade they'll be ready to go back to the drawing board.

 

I could certainly see the Ferris wheel being abandoned too. It's a gimmick as well, but not a cheap one.

 

Interestingly, OKC is also opening up a food truck court with a Ferris wheel this year. There's probably others as well. Once multiple cities try copying fads like these, they tend to die out really fast, or at least lose most of their glamour and original appeal. I'd give it a couple more years before food trucks and container buildings are completely out of style.